130 X Troubleshooting from HH

[soljkaer20]

Hi Guys,

Here are some tips we have.

Roll on take-off.
Flybarless systems do not like it when the helicopter is light on the skids. As soon as the blades start spinning the pilot needs to start flying it. When taking off the 130 X, increase the throttle, once the blades are spinning rapidly increase the throttle to pop it off the ground. Letting the helicopter spool up slowly can cause vibration which will cause an unwanted roll. It is also recommended to take the helicopter off of a smooth surface such as concrete. The helicopter being so light can get stuck in the grass very easily.
Tail Resonance.
Upon spool up, the helicopters will experience a vibration in the tail assembly, but only during spool up. The tail is hitting a resonant frequency at a certain head speed; this is not a problem, it’s just something the 130 X does. The key is to quickly move through this head speed range. To avoid this issue, advance the throttle from low throttle to about 75% throttle immediately. The goal is to pop the helicopter off the ground as quickly as possible without letting it stay at the head speed that causes the resonant vibration. Once it moves past this head speed and is off the ground and in the air, the vibration will disappear.
Tail resonance can also occur when holding the helicopter and spooling it up. Helicopters are not designed to be held static when the rotors are turning, and Horizon does not support or recommend doing this!

Gear Stripping
One thing to check is to hold the head and try to spin the tail assembly, using light pressure. The tail shouldn't spin. If the tail spins easily check the gears and make sure none of them are slipping on the shaft. Again taking off of concrete or something smooth is better. Since the helicopter sits low, grass can grab the tail and potentially strip a gear. If the tail is not holding, stripped or slipping gears is generally the cause.

Motor Temperatures
The motor temp is warm but well within an acceptable range for a brushless motor. The motor temperature is approximately 160 degrees Fahrenheit depending on ambient temp. A high performance motor does generate heat. As with ALL electric motors, it is advised to allow the motor to cool between flights.
Servo Response

When the motor is off the gyros are off. The servos will work like you are expecting them to: hold left servo goes left, center the stick the servo centers.

When the motor is on the gyros are on. Therefore the servos act differently. When you hold full left rudder the error builds up. When you center the stick the gyro still thinks there is error and therefore continues to hold left rudder in. If you were to hold right rudder in for a little while, don't jab it, hold it in for a couple seconds it would then go right. Once the motor is turned off the servos will continue to operate this way for 4 seconds.



Thanks,
James

[litehawkdown]

Sticky this one. It's from the heli designer!

[Rodney Kirstine]

That's some really good info, right there. Thanks!

[pixeltim]

Thank you James!

[ChrisG23]

James, thanks for the tips.
Is there going to be a problem using sub trims with the as3x? I had slight tail drift, and used sub trim to take care of it. After that was handled, the heli itself drifted left. A few clicks of sub trim later, and the heli hovers almost hands off. I haven't noticed any side effects from this yet, but have only a few short flights so far.

Lastly, how far off is the part support we typically expect from blade? Thanks, -Chris

[Lompma]

I dont know why people are freaking out about the tail vibration. Dont use the throttle curve they give in the manual. Make a much steeper curve and just power by it. Once your past that point the tail is fine. Don just sit there at 30% and encourage the vibrations. I have had a few quality kits that would do this same thing at certain RMPs. I would just change the throttle curve.

[Ric66]

All rotating machines have resonant speed(s). It would appear that the Blade designers chose to engineer this model so it has a resonance well below the tail's normal operating rpm. This is a good design practice! As James said, briefly passing through a resonant condition will not harm the components.

[Epoweredrc]

Wow that some great info James do you have anything to say about why people are breaking tail blades?

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Tapatalk 2

[litehawkdown]

Originally Posted by Ric66

All rotating machines have resonant speed(s). It would appear that the Blade designers chose to engineer this model so it has a resonance well below the tail's normal operating rpm. This is a good design practice! As James said, briefly passing through a resonant condition will not harm the components.

All my birds do it on spool up. Very normal. Even the MCPX has this.

[pauleley]

Sticky

[Rodney Kirstine]

Dont use the throttle curve they give in the manual.

Agreed. My 450X and 6HV both have vibration at certain points during spool up. I always just set flat throttle curves and the vibration only lasts a couple of seconds as it spools up.

[GSPI]

Woops, I didn't read this and came up with the same conclusion on another thread. Thanks James for confirming my findings on my maiden flight, the unit functions as specified then!

[WillJames]

Originally Posted by soljkaer20

Hi Guys,

Here are some tips we have.

Roll on take-off.
Flybarless systems do not like it when the helicopter is light on the skids. As soon as the blades start spinning the pilot needs to start flying it. When taking off the 130 X, increase the throttle, once the blades are spinning rapidly increase the throttle to pop it off the ground. Letting the helicopter spool up slowly can cause vibration which will cause an unwanted roll. It is also recommended to take the helicopter off of a smooth surface such as concrete. The helicopter being so light can get stuck in the grass very easily.
Tail Resonance.
Upon spool up, the helicopters will experience a vibration in the tail assembly, but only during spool up. The tail is hitting a resonant frequency at a certain head speed; this is not a problem, it’s just something the 130 X does. The key is to quickly move through this head speed range. To avoid this issue, advance the throttle from low throttle to about 75% throttle immediately. The goal is to pop the helicopter off the ground as quickly as possible without letting it stay at the head speed that causes the resonant vibration. Once it moves past this head speed and is off the ground and in the air, the vibration will disappear.
Tail resonance can also occur when holding the helicopter and spooling it up. Helicopters are not designed to be held static when the rotors are turning, and Horizon does not support or recommend doing this!

Gear Stripping
One thing to check is to hold the head and try to spin the tail assembly, using light pressure. The tail shouldn't spin. If the tail spins easily check the gears and make sure none of them are slipping on the shaft. Again taking off of concrete or something smooth is better. Since the helicopter sits low, grass can grab the tail and potentially strip a gear. If the tail is not holding, stripped or slipping gears is generally the cause.

Motor Temperatures
The motor temp is warm but well within an acceptable range for a brushless motor. The motor temperature is approximately 160 degrees Fahrenheit depending on ambient temp. A high performance motor does generate heat. As with ALL electric motors, it is advised to allow the motor to cool between flights.
Servo Response

When the motor is off the gyros are off. The servos will work like you are expecting them to: hold left servo goes left, center the stick the servo centers.

When the motor is on the gyros are on. Therefore the servos act differently. When you hold full left rudder the error builds up. When you center the stick the gyro still thinks there is error and therefore continues to hold left rudder in. If you were to hold right rudder in for a little while, don't jab it, hold it in for a couple seconds it would then go right. Once the motor is turned off the servos will continue to operate this way for 4 seconds.



Thanks,
James

Thank you James.

[ed2728]

thanks James please keep the support coming!

I can't wait to pick one of these up - they look like such a cool little heli.

now hurry up and get to Australia already!!

[soljkaer20]

@ChrisG23

Using sub trim and trim is perfectly acceptable on AS3X.

[3vw]

Just came in from flying my 130x again and I just love this Heli!

Thanks James for your input and many thanks to everyone at HH for their part in creating this wonderful new micro CP heli.

[ChrisG23]

Originally Posted by soljkaer20

@ChrisG23

Using sub trim and trim is perfectly acceptable on AS3X.

Thanks for your response, I have been having a blast with this heli. 5 Flights and kept her out of the dirt so far.

[fac13]

Originally Posted by soljkaer20

Using sub trim and trim is perfectly acceptable on AS3X.

I'd like to understand why a heli with a heading hold gyro could need rudder trim?

[litehawkdown]

Originally Posted by fac13

I'd like to understand why a heli with a heading hold gyro could need rudder trim?

Me too. As far as I know all that is fixable through gain settings and a proper mechanical setup. I guess it might be one of those if you can't figure out the gain settings and mechanical issues then your flying won't suffer from a poor setup anyways.

[ahahn]

Originally Posted by fac13

I'd like to understand why a heli with a heading hold gyro could need rudder trim?

I think this is due to the nature of the 3D board.

Most FBL controllers and gyros get their "mid-stick" levels when you power up. So if you have trim on one of those, the next time you power up, the FBL board renormalizes it out.

The mCPX and apparently this 130X board (probably same controller) seem to work by using an absolute level to determine mid stick. By this I mean that it relies on the transmitter and receiver to be perfectly on the dime. If you put in a click of trim, when you power the transmitter off/on, then the 130X board sees that click of trim as a command and does not renormalize it away.

Now if you transmitter isn't exactly "on the dime" with the value of midstick, then using trim to get it to the 130X midstick value is the way to do it.

On my old mCPX, I had exactly this issue, my transmitter was slightly off on all channels, and if I did nothing (with trims zero'd) the heli would just tilt and bam into the floor--every "takeoff" (abbreviated). What I did was to add a few clicks of trim on cyclic and tail channels so that the swash wouldn't immediately pivot into the corner. That's the way I flew that bird with that transmitter. It persisted (the trims) through binds and on/off flight.

When I replaced that old transmitter with a DX6i, the bird flew just fine with no trim, showing that the problem was with the transmitter.

So, IMHO, the way a 3D board works with trims depends on how it determines where midstick is for the cyclic and tail channels. That's in the firmware.