Kicking Solid G

[theswerv]

I am getting this random tail kick to the left with the solid G on a 500 ESP. Elec set up is the same as Bob White's, the Gyro is as far away from the tail bearings as I can get it, and I have re routed the cyclic servo cables away from the gyro/rudder cables..

I thought I would test it on the ground for a bit, so I trimmed the pitch down a bit via the pitch trim (DX7), and let it run on the ground for a couple of minutes at normal head speed, it still kicked a few times!

The only slight difference, is that the AR7000 satellite receiver is installed on the other side of the frame, and in a different orientation. ie horizontal not vertical. Could that cause a problem?

Oh btw all settings have been set up with the G viev as per Curtis web site for the 500 in the tec notes

[JaggedEdge]

I have mine mounted upside down on the RX plate and the amp on the left side frame.
ESC is mounted under the battery plate infront of and above motor.

No tail kicks.

But I have had the rx reset while 50feet up. Forced autos are fun.
I've ordered a bec with the hopes that it will instill some confidence back in my 500.

[ualdrivr]

Try a rebind before you go any further and let us know. Also I would move the satellite antenna lower on that side of the heli and put the antenna at 90 degrees to the main RX antenna. Something like that:
https://www.helifreak.com/album.php?...pictureid=7399

mate

[Funky]

I love the Solid-G on my other helis, but I never could get it running right on my 500. I would get random tail kicks or it would wag when I loaded it up. I had to reduce the gain a LOT just to get it to quit wagging under load but it ended up with a tail that felt very loose in the air. I re-routed the gyro wires and the random tail kicks got better but never went away entirely. Finally I gave up and put the 401 back on.... and it flies great again

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Sounds like static hits to me.

[Vinger]

ESP with TT, don't think static can cause this, but the ESC/motor combo could be it. Try doing the setup for the ESC again, make sure it is not in govmode, Align speedos sucks at it. Check for binding in the TT drivetrain as well as the tail pushrod.

[whisperdancer]

Yes, static will cause this even with TT.
A friend put the ESP in the air for the first time with a 401, and it kicked from time to time. It was most noticeable when the heli was leaving the ground.
After that he made the electrical continuity mod and the kicking just went away.
I also have a 500esp and a SolidG to put on it, but I have yet to put the electronics in the heli, as I haven't decided about the tail servo (thinking about Ino-Lab...).
But I will make the mod in the first place...

[Finless]

Keep any gyro as far away from the tail drive bearings that are in the boom block. Bearing noise can cause this random kick! I have seen this on the 600E, 600N and the 500. If you watch close the random kick may be related to changes in RPM. I have seen this on several Align helis not just mine.
The 500 being smaller you may have no choice but to move the gyro off the boom block.
ALSO since most route the cyclic servo wires past the tail drive area on the inside of the frame, make sure your gyro wires are not bundled up with the cyclic servo wires as this noise can be transfered from them to the gyro.

Bob

[wakebum187]

I posted a question about my Trex 600 Nitro doing the same thing the tail would kick then it would be fine. I made sure the wires were far away the servo wires but it would still kick. I then took the gyro mount and put on top of the torque tube assembly and I am pretty sure it solved my problem. I think the main problem is from cold weather and the gyro is right on top of the cyclic servos on a Trex 600 N because it was kicking a lot more when it was 26 degrees outside.

I am also running a Solid G.

[JaggedEdge]

Anyone know why when lowering the gain at the tx gain at the gyro increases (viewed with g-view)?

[theswerv]

Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

I have mine mounted upside down on the RX plate and the amp on the left side frame.
ESC is mounted under the battery plate infront of and above motor

That was going to be my next move to move the gyro. ESC is where you said.

Originally Posted by ualdrivr

Try a rebind before you go any further and let us know. Also I would move the satellite antenna lower on that side of the heli and put the antenna at 90 degrees to the main RX antenna. Something like that:
https://www.helifreak.com/album.php?...pictureid=7399

mate

I have done several rebinds but this did not change things.

Originally Posted by Funky

I love the Solid-G on my other helis, but I never could get it running right on my 500. I would get random tail kicks or it would wag when I loaded it up. I had to reduce the gain a LOT just to get it to quit wagging under load but it ended up with a tail that felt very loose in the air. I re-routed the gyro wires and the random tail kicks got better but never went away entirely. Finally I gave up and put the 401 back on.... and it flies great again

This is bad news. Going back to the old 401, may have to strip the 450se!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Vinger

ESP with TT, don't think static can cause this, but the ESC/motor combo could be it. Try doing the setup for the ESC again, make sure it is not in govmode, Align speedos sucks at it. Check for binding in the TT drivetrain as well as the tail pushrod.

Not in govmode. I have had Experience of Align's governor mode, I would say it more wags than kicks.

Originally Posted by whisperdancer

Yes, static will cause this even with TT.
A friend put the ESP in the air for the first time with a 401, and it kicked from time to time. It was most noticeable when the heli was leaving the ground.
After that he made the electrical continuity mod and the kicking just went away.
I also have a 500esp and a SolidG to put on it, but I have yet to put the electronics in the heli, as I haven't decided about the tail servo (thinking about Ino-Lab...).
But I will make the mod in the first place...

Interesting, can you point me to the link please

Originally Posted by Finless

Keep any gyro as far away from the tail drive bearings that are in the boom block. Bearing noise can cause this random kick! I have seen this on the 600E, 600N and the 500. If you watch close the random kick may be related to changes in RPM. I have seen this on several Align helis not just mine.
The 500 being smaller you may have no choice but to move the gyro off the boom block.
ALSO since most route the cyclic servo wires past the tail drive area on the inside of the frame, make sure your gyro wires are not bundled up with the cyclic servo wires as this noise can be transfered from them to the gyro.

Bob

The gyro is as far as I can get it away from the bearings without it hanging over the edge. May have to move it. Both set of servo wires are separate from each other.

Originally Posted by wakebum187

I posted a question about my Trex 600 Nitro doing the same thing the tail would kick then it would be fine. I made sure the wires were far away the servo wires but it would still kick. I then took the gyro mount and put on top of the torque tube assembly and I am pretty sure it solved my problem. I think the main problem is from cold weather and the gyro is right on top of the cyclic servos on a Trex 600 N because it was kicking a lot more when it was 26 degrees outside.

I am also running a Solid G.

Temperature!!!! now that is something I did not think of. Not much I can do about it at the moment (-3C). But now you mention it, when it was warmer I don't think it kicked!!!! Hope it warms up for the weekend to try.

Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

Anyone know why when lowering the gain at the tx gain at the gyro increases (viewed with g-view)?

Not sure about this one, but I think the gain only goes down to 26 on the G view from then it only goes up no matter which way you move the ATV.

Thanks for all the suggestions folks

[Finless]

Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

Anyone know why when lowering the gain at the tx gain at the gyro increases (viewed with g-view)?

Futaba radio right? Reverse the gyro channel

Bob

[JaggedEdge]

Originally Posted by theswerv

Not sure about this one, but I think the gain only goes down to 26 on the G view from then it only goes up no matter which way you move the ATV.

Thanks for all the suggestions folks

Sounds feasible. I had thought that below a certain amount of gain it starts going back up again. I did not fool around with it to find out though. I should take a look again tonight. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Finless

Futaba radio right? Reverse the gyro channel

Bob

No, DX7. Didnt do this when I first set it up and I don't remember reversing anything.
I'll check into it further. Thanks!

[Finless]

FYI on a DX you cant reverse the gear channel if gyro is set to it. BUT if you turn off gyro menu, then reverse gear, then turn it back on..... You can... A little weirdness in the menus

Bob

[whisperdancer]

One can see the continuity mod here:

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=69894


In the Curtis Youngblood page there is a reference for the T-Rex 500:

Solid G Gyro - YEI-YE-SOLIDG
Technical Information

Solid G parameters for T-rex 500 (using model set on Trex 600E settings, all settings shown not just the changed ones)
These settings optimize the Trex500 with stock plastic tail blades. See photo under main product photo for mounting location of gyro and ESC. Best performance was with the gyro on bottom tray and ESC up in front beside the battery.

Pirouette Menu
Lft Stp Spd 50
Rgt Stp Speed 36
Lftfststpspd 25
rgtfststpspd 25
Lft Cst/Rbd 80
Right Cst/Rbd 80

Response Menu
Pir Speed 55
Pir balance 43
Gain Balance 40
Rate Gain 25
Heading Gain 45
Pir Gain 15

Trex 500 Note 1.) note with these settings I have been flying with a G-view reading gain of 44% using a JR3400 tail servo set on 9253/8900G servo option. But many things affect this gain setting. To improve tail hold I had to glue the horizontal fin clamp to the boom (otherwise it was loose in flight). I also reamed out the tail blade grips until the thrust bearings fell into the grips loose (they come tight and tend to lock up in flight).

Trex500 Note 2.) I used the stock 500 ESC but moved it all the way to the front up by the battery to prevent noise into the radio system. Some people have had to use seperate BECs to reduce noise hits in their radio system (this affects other radios and gyros, not just the Solid G) on the Trex 500.

Trex500 Note 3.) An expo setting of about 40% seems to give a feel around center that most pilot like. With no expo the tail is very responsive around center. I (Curtis) like it with no expo, but most people prefer about 40%.

[JaggedEdge]

Originally Posted by Finless

FYI on a DX you cant reverse the gear channel if gyro is set to it. BUT if you turn off gyro menu, then reverse gear, then turn it back on..... You can... A little weirdness in the menus

Bob

I messed around with this a little bit tonight. I cant go any lower than 23 gain when viewed with the g-view. Attempting to lower the gain anymore at the tx causes the gain at the gyro to go up.

[Finless]

Thats odd..... Try using gear endpoint instead of gyro menu.

Bob

[theswerv]

Originally Posted by whisperdancer

One can see the continuity mod here:

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=69894


In the Curtis Youngblood page there is a reference for the T-Rex 500:

Solid G Gyro - YEI-YE-SOLIDG
Technical Information

Solid G parameters for T-rex 500 (using model set on Trex 600E settings, all settings shown not just the changed ones)
These settings optimize the Trex500 with stock plastic tail blades. See photo under main product photo for mounting location of gyro and ESC. Best performance was with the gyro on bottom tray and ESC up in front beside the battery.

Pirouette Menu
Lft Stp Spd 50
Rgt Stp Speed 36
Lftfststpspd 25
rgtfststpspd 25
Lft Cst/Rbd 80
Right Cst/Rbd 80

Response Menu
Pir Speed 55
Pir balance 43
Gain Balance 40
Rate Gain 25
Heading Gain 45
Pir Gain 15

Trex 500 Note 1.) note with these settings I have been flying with a G-view reading gain of 44% using a JR3400 tail servo set on 9253/8900G servo option. But many things affect this gain setting. To improve tail hold I had to glue the horizontal fin clamp to the boom (otherwise it was loose in flight). I also reamed out the tail blade grips until the thrust bearings fell into the grips loose (they come tight and tend to lock up in flight).

Trex500 Note 2.) I used the stock 500 ESC but moved it all the way to the front up by the battery to prevent noise into the radio system. Some people have had to use seperate BECs to reduce noise hits in their radio system (this affects other radios and gyros, not just the Solid G) on the Trex 500.

Trex500 Note 3.) An expo setting of about 40% seems to give a feel around center that most pilot like. With no expo the tail is very responsive around center. I (Curtis) like it with no expo, but most people prefer about 40%.

Yes I found that page and the gyro is setup "bang on" to it.

Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

I messed around with this a little bit tonight. I cant go any lower than 23 gain when viewed with the g-view. Attempting to lower the gain anymore at the tx causes the gain at the gyro to go up.

Sorry I think I said 26

Originally Posted by Finless

Thats odd..... Try using gear endpoint instead of gyro menu.

Bob

Bob, you even mentioned this in your setup vid, under the G view setup!

[theswerv]

Well I had a chance this weekend to try a few things out.

The only thing that worked was moving the gyro under the bottom plate! ( no tail twitch now )

First spool up was ineresting..... had inverted the gyro, but forgotton to reverse the direction of the gyro!!

Boy....... did that heli spin fast on the ground

Anyway thanks for all the input guys, I think Bob had it nailed when he said it was bearing noise from the tail drive.

[whisperdancer]

What did you do with the long gyro wire?
Did you cut it or wrapped it inside the frame?
I didn't understood what Finless did with this long wire of the SolidG in the build videos...