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Dodge DeBoulet · 02-20-2012, 07:28 PM

After reading many positive comments on the indestructibility of a solid CF main shaft, I decided to purchase one from a vendor with very high positive feedback rating. I received the item in a reasonable time frame, within a week of my order.

I had only recently installed a new stock main shaft, so I didn't jump to install the new one as soon as it arrived. It sat on my desk for another 10 days, and I finally decided to install it this afternoon.

What a horrible mess it made. My first suspicion that something was wrong was when the head didn't turn freely, and the flybar seemed to bind. I assumed that it might just need some "wear-in," although I'd never had to do anything like that with prior (stock) main shaft replacements. The 120 was virtually uncontrollable, bolting off at high speed to 2 o'clock. I did my best to trim it up, but the amount of trim necessary left me with no room to do anything but hover, in increasingly larger circles (MASSIVE TBE).

I gave up at that point an reinstalled the previous stock shaft. Once reassembled, the helo flew perfectly.

I carefully examined the solid CF shaft and discovered that the two screw holes for the anti-rotation collar and the main rotor hub were not perfectly aligned; as a matter of fact, the hole for the hub did not pass through the center of the shaft! I verified this by inserting some stiff wire through each of the holes and viewing their divergence. The difference was at least 4 or 5 degrees.

I've sent a message to the seller requesting that he do the right thing before opening a dispute with eBay, but if I don't hear from him within 48 hours that's my next step. I'm not going to reveal his name until I know how this pans out. In the meantime, I would recommend you steer clear of solid CF main shafts unless you've used them in the past and you're going back to a source you've used before.

Dodge DeBoulet · 02-20-2012, 09:29 PM

Update: I've heard from the seller, and he claims he inadvertently produced a bad batch and that he'd had multiple complaints from customers. He says he's working hard to rectify everyone's issues and offered to send me a freshly-made shaft or give me a full refund.

I really want the solid shaft, so I've asked for a replacement. I'll update this thread when I receive it.

kartooo · 02-20-2012, 09:40 PM

sorry to hear your problem.
i really like the xtremet aluminum version. the stock hollow carbon ones always split and create a vibration. i don't think it's a crash just fatique over time. most times can't be seen unless you put a pick in it to open it up.

Heli-cat · 02-20-2012, 10:19 PM

Hey Dodge, I could have written your saga word-for-word!

I too had been "sitting on" that thing for nearly a couple of weeks now and Saturday night decided to give it an install. First of all it was a real PITA getting the screws all the way in and ended up stripping the heads out of a couple of them, and then finally the binding issue.

It had been awhile since I last tore the shaft completely down and I figured I must have somehow botched something - so I disassembled and re-assembled again - still no joy. Now I'm pisst cuz I've removed a perfectly functioning aluminum shaft for this POS!

Now I know this thing isn't going to fly, but for laffs I fire it up anyway, and of course it did exactly as you described. Back on goes the aluminum shaft and finally again, all is right with the world.

I figured I had just learned a "if it ain't broke...." lesson. Glad to hear it wasn't just me
then. I still don't know if perhaps I'll just seek refund rather than replacement. All I know is
"aluminum shaft ha been beddy beddy good to me".
(SNL viewers from days long gone by will probably get that last reference)

BigRHS · 02-21-2012, 12:17 AM

I just got my solid cf shaft on Saturday and installed it yesterday. The screws went in a little tight but everything lined up good and i had no binding that I could find. I haven't had a chance to try to fly it ( I'm still learning and need to be outside and the weather isn't very good here right now ) but i did hook the battery up and run the motor through all the rpm range and it was as smooth as it could be. I hope that I might have got a good one.
But just in case, where are the new shafts binding ? is it in the frame bearings ?

44SkyHi · 02-21-2012, 01:11 AM

H-Cat...

So... you're saying that if I remember an SNL character by the name of Jose Jiminez -- to whom bazeball was beddy, beddy good -- I'm from days long gone by?

How rude.

Just for that... I command you to drink a freshly blended bass smoothie!

Heli-cat · 02-21-2012, 02:19 AM

yessindeedy, I still have my Bass-o-matic!

However, 44, you're going back even pre-SNL with Jose (Bill Dana) Jiminez, the great submarine commander, interplanetary astronaut etc.
The gent for whom bezzball ha been berra berra good, of course, was Chico (Garrett Morris) Esquela........but you knew that!

airshot · 02-21-2012, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartooo

sorry to hear your problem.
i really like the xtremet aluminum version. the stock hollow carbon ones always split and create a vibration. i don't think it's a crash just fatique over time. most times can't be seen unless you put a pick in it to open it up.

The hollow standard CF shafts are easy to repair when they split and last much longer and are stronger once repaired. I have posted the repair a couple times in past postings. My repaired one is still strong after more than a month, have cracked 3 rotor hubs but main shaft is still strong.

Airshot

Pfloyd · 02-21-2012, 06:25 PM

Actually Jose Jimmenez was NOT a SNL character. He was on the old Ed Sullivan show.
Garret Morris plays the baseball player saying Bazeball been berry berry good to me. His name was Chico Escuela from the Domincan Republic...I am also old.....63! And even remember Topo Gigio! Good Night Eddie!

44SkyHi · 02-21-2012, 08:53 PM

Dang, Floyd... you're right about Jiminez.

Well, plunk my magic twanger, Froggy!

viper5194 · 02-22-2012, 10:55 PM

My first post here, but give the guy a chance. I bought three and two of them had issues. One few nice. one had severe binding of the links, and one was unflyable with zero controlability. Seller gave me same story about a bad batch, said his jig was assembled wrong. He did indeed ship out two more which seem to fly fine. He will take care of the issue if you let him.

Heli-cat · 02-23-2012, 12:09 AM

Yep, I contacted him too and he feels terrible about the issue and has sent out a replacement, so I'm happy to give it another shot. I'm always willing to cut someone slack who readily admits an error was made and is eager to make it right.

as the saying goes -

happens!

crashjack · 02-23-2012, 08:57 PM

I had the same issue... tried to change shafts yesterday and ended up with two reamed-out screws and going back to the stock shaft. He shipped a new solid CF shaft today. I will say that except for the screwed-up holes, the shaft he sent was more uniformed than my stock shaft. I had a heck of a time removing everything from the stock shaft. For instance, the anti-rotation collar was stuck from its hole and up maybe an inch before it would get loose again. I don't know if my stock shaft has some slight bends or if it is just imperfect in regards to the diameter of the shaft. The CF solid shaft was exactly the same from top to bottom.

Dodge DeBoulet · 02-24-2012, 12:24 PM

I received my replacement main shaft today.

Unfortunately, I still can't give the manufacturer high marks. While the rotor hub, anti-rotation collar and main gear screw holes are now close in alignment (at least to my eye), the screw hole for the retaining collar located between the top shaft bearing and swashplate is noticeably off-center. I believe it will still work, but I suspect that it will be difficult to drive the screw into it given the angle.

If I can get it to work, I will call it good . . . but will likely stick to OEM main shafts for future replacements.

I'll post my results once I've had a chance to install the new shaft.

Chris.S. · 02-24-2012, 01:07 PM

How do the holes look in terms drilling? Are they a nice clean hole or is there jagged edges? CF rod is notoriously hard to drill, I'm just wondering if the guy needs a new set of bits or something. Shouldn't be that hard for him to get this right.

Dodge DeBoulet · 02-24-2012, 01:20 PM

The holes are clean, but that's because he's cleaned them up after drilling. There's an obvious difference in sheen for the area surrounding the holes.

The misalignment on the retaining collar screw hole looks like a jig/template problem to me.

Chris.S. · 02-24-2012, 02:59 PM

I guess it just goes to show how important good tooling is. This should be a very simple piece to machine, but here we see how easy it mess it up.

If only I had a fab shop at my disposal...

Dodge DeBoulet · 02-24-2012, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris.S.

I guess it just goes to show how important good tooling is. This should be a very simple piece to machine, but here we see how easy it mess it up.

If only I had a fab shop at my disposal...

Chris, if you had a fab shop at your disposal, I'd be happy to send my money to you. Unfortunately, I will be requesting a refund for the shaft I purchased on eBay. The vendor simply does not have either the technical acumen or the correct equipment to produce a usable solid CF shaft; the one I received today performs no better than the last.

I reinstalled the previous stock shaft and my 120 SR flies normally. With the solid CF shaft, the flybar and ball links bind. This is obviously unacceptable.

I'll be sticking with the OEM shaft.

rdandy5875 · 02-24-2012, 08:56 PM

Honestly these wouldn't be too hard to make. I wonder what kind of drill bit he uses to cut the holes. I've got a manual mill at my disposal with a slew of fixturing possibilities. I think I may try to make a few and see how they fly...

The problem is though, my motivation is low. I find the stock one pretty resilient.

Dodge DeBoulet · 02-24-2012, 09:22 PM

My request for a refund was processed promptly, and I received a very apologetic response from the vendor. He also asked for any observations I might have as to why the shaft was not working, and I provided him with detailed information.

Simply, there's virtually no tolerance for misalignment between the rotor hub screw hole and the anti-rotation collar screw hole. A variance of only a degree or two will cause binding of the ball links in their guides and that may result in the flybar binding against the main shaft. I saw this with both solid CF shafts; when I reinstalled the OEM main shaft those issues completely disappeared.

I'm pleased that the vendor is very interested in producing a quality product and I complimented him on that interest. I'm hoping that, in the future, I will be able to buy from him with confidence.

02-20-2012, 07:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Dodge DeBoulet Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Dec 2011	Beware: Solid CF Main Shaft Sold on eBay After reading many positive comments on the indestructibility of a solid CF main shaft, I decided to purchase one from a vendor with very high positive feedback rating. I received the item in a reasonable time frame, within a week of my order. I had only recently installed a new stock main shaft, so I didn't jump to install the new one as soon as it arrived. It sat on my desk for another 10 days, and I finally decided to install it this afternoon. What a horrible mess it made. My first suspicion that something was wrong was when the head didn't turn freely, and the flybar seemed to bind. I assumed that it might just need some "wear-in," although I'd never had to do anything like that with prior (stock) main shaft replacements. The 120 was virtually uncontrollable, bolting off at high speed to 2 o'clock. I did my best to trim it up, but the amount of trim necessary left me with no room to do anything but hover, in increasingly larger circles (MASSIVE TBE). I gave up at that point an reinstalled the previous stock shaft. Once reassembled, the helo flew perfectly. I carefully examined the solid CF shaft and discovered that the two screw holes for the anti-rotation collar and the main rotor hub were not perfectly aligned; as a matter of fact, the hole for the hub did not pass through the center of the shaft! I verified this by inserting some stiff wire through each of the holes and viewing their divergence. The difference was at least 4 or 5 degrees. I've sent a message to the seller requesting that he do the right thing before opening a dispute with eBay, but if I don't hear from him within 48 hours that's my next step. I'm not going to reveal his name until I know how this pans out. In the meantime, I would recommend you steer clear of solid CF main shafts unless you've used them in the past and you're going back to a source you've used before.

02-21-2012, 01:11 AM	#6 (permalink)
44SkyHi Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Jun 2011	H-Cat... So... you're saying that if I remember an SNL character by the name of Jose Jiminez -- to whom bazeball was beddy, beddy good -- *I'm* from days long gone by? How *rude. Just for that... I command you to drink a freshly blended bass smoothie!* __________________ How many of you believe in psycho-kinesis? Raise my hand.

02-21-2012, 06:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
Pfloyd Registered Users Join Date: Mar 2010	Actually Jose Jimmenez was NOT a SNL character. He was on the old Ed Sullivan show. Garret Morris plays the baseball player saying Bazeball been berry berry good to me. His name was Chico Escuela from the Domincan Republic...I am also old.....63! And even remember Topo Gigio! Good Night Eddie! __________________ Syma S107-Syma S109-Syma X8C-Syma X8G-Syma X5HC-Syma X5HW-Mini Orion-ProtoX-Syma X5C-1 USAF RETIRED 1968-1988 Vietnam Veteran

02-21-2012, 08:53 PM	#10 (permalink)
44SkyHi Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Jun 2011	*Dang, Floyd... you're right* about Jiminez. Well, plunk my magic twanger, *Froggy!* __________________ How many of you believe in psycho-kinesis? Raise my hand. Last edited by 44SkyHi; 02-23-2012 at 12:23 AM..

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02-20-2012, 09:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Dodge DeBoulet Registered Users Thread Starter My HF Map location Join Date: Dec 2011	Update: I've heard from the seller, and he claims he inadvertently produced a bad batch and that he'd had multiple complaints from customers. He says he's working hard to rectify everyone's issues and offered to send me a freshly-made shaft or give me a full refund. I really want the solid shaft, so I've asked for a replacement. I'll update this thread when I receive it.

02-20-2012, 09:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
kartooo Registered Users Join Date: Feb 2012	sorry to hear your problem. i really like the xtremet aluminum version. the stock hollow carbon ones always split and create a vibration. i don't think it's a crash just fatique over time. most times can't be seen unless you put a pick in it to open it up.

02-20-2012, 10:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
Heli-cat Registered Users Join Date: Jun 2011	Hey Dodge, I could have written your saga word-for-word! I too had been "sitting on" that thing for nearly a couple of weeks now and Saturday night decided to give it an install. First of all it was a real PITA getting the screws all the way in and ended up stripping the heads out of a couple of them, and then finally the binding issue. It had been awhile since I last tore the shaft completely down and I figured I must have somehow botched something - so I disassembled and re-assembled again - still no joy. Now I'm pisst cuz I've removed a perfectly functioning aluminum shaft for this POS! Now I know this thing isn't going to fly, but for laffs I fire it up anyway, and of course it did exactly as you described. Back on goes the aluminum shaft and finally again, all is right with the world. I figured I had just learned a "if it ain't broke...." lesson. Glad to hear it wasn't just me then. I still don't know if perhaps I'll just seek refund rather than replacement. All I know is "aluminum shaft ha been beddy beddy good to me". (SNL viewers from days long gone by will probably get that last reference)

02-21-2012, 12:17 AM	#5 (permalink)
BigRHS Registered Users Join Date: Jan 2012	I just got my solid cf shaft on Saturday and installed it yesterday. The screws went in a little tight but everything lined up good and i had no binding that I could find. I haven't had a chance to try to fly it ( I'm still learning and need to be outside and the weather isn't very good here right now ) but i did hook the battery up and run the motor through all the rpm range and it was as smooth as it could be. I hope that I might have got a good one. But just in case, where are the new shafts binding ? is it in the frame bearings ?

02-21-2012, 02:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
Heli-cat Registered Users Join Date: Jun 2011	yessindeedy, I still have my Bass-o-matic! However, 44, you're going back even pre-SNL with Jose (Bill Dana) Jiminez, the great submarine commander, interplanetary astronaut etc. The gent for whom bezzball ha been berra berra good, of course, was Chico (Garrett Morris) Esquela........but you knew that!

02-22-2012, 10:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
viper5194 Registered Users Join Date: Feb 2012	My first post here, but give the guy a chance. I bought three and two of them had issues. One few nice. one had severe binding of the links, and one was unflyable with zero controlability. Seller gave me same story about a bad batch, said his jig was assembled wrong. He did indeed ship out two more which seem to fly fine. He will take care of the issue if you let him.

02-23-2012, 12:09 AM	#12 (permalink)
Heli-cat Registered Users Join Date: Jun 2011	Yep, I contacted him too and he feels terrible about the issue and has sent out a replacement, so I'm happy to give it another shot. I'm always willing to cut someone slack who readily admits an error was made and is eager to make it right. as the saying goes - happens!

02-23-2012, 08:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
crashjack Registered Users Join Date: Jan 2012	I had the same issue... tried to change shafts yesterday and ended up with two reamed-out screws and going back to the stock shaft. He shipped a new solid CF shaft today. I will say that except for the screwed-up holes, the shaft he sent was more uniformed than my stock shaft. I had a heck of a time removing everything from the stock shaft. For instance, the anti-rotation collar was stuck from its hole and up maybe an inch before it would get loose again. I don't know if my stock shaft has some slight bends or if it is just imperfect in regards to the diameter of the shaft. The CF solid shaft was exactly the same from top to bottom.

02-24-2012, 12:24 PM	#14 (permalink)
Dodge DeBoulet Registered Users Thread Starter My HF Map location Join Date: Dec 2011	I received my replacement main shaft today. Unfortunately, I still can't give the manufacturer high marks. While the rotor hub, anti-rotation collar and main gear screw holes are now close in alignment (at least to my eye), the screw hole for the retaining collar located between the top shaft bearing and swashplate is noticeably off-center. I believe it will still work, but I suspect that it will be difficult to drive the screw into it given the angle. If I can get it to work, I will call it good . . . but will likely stick to OEM main shafts for future replacements. I'll post my results once I've had a chance to install the new shaft.

02-24-2012, 01:07 PM	#15 (permalink)
Chris.S. Registered Users Join Date: Nov 2010	How do the holes look in terms drilling? Are they a nice clean hole or is there jagged edges? CF rod is notoriously hard to drill, I'm just wondering if the guy needs a new set of bits or something. Shouldn't be that hard for him to get this right.

02-24-2012, 01:20 PM	#16 (permalink)
Dodge DeBoulet Registered Users Thread Starter My HF Map location Join Date: Dec 2011	The holes are clean, but that's because he's cleaned them up after drilling. There's an obvious difference in sheen for the area surrounding the holes. The misalignment on the retaining collar screw hole looks like a jig/template problem to me.

02-24-2012, 02:59 PM	#17 (permalink)
Chris.S. Registered Users Join Date: Nov 2010	I guess it just goes to show how important good tooling is. This should be a very simple piece to machine, but here we see how easy it mess it up. If only I had a fab shop at my disposal...

02-24-2012, 08:56 PM	#19 (permalink)
rdandy5875 Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Jan 2012	Honestly these wouldn't be too hard to make. I wonder what kind of drill bit he uses to cut the holes. I've got a manual mill at my disposal with a slew of fixturing possibilities. I think I may try to make a few and see how they fly... The problem is though, my motivation is low. I find the stock one pretty resilient.

02-24-2012, 09:22 PM	#20 (permalink)
Dodge DeBoulet Registered Users Thread Starter My HF Map location Join Date: Dec 2011	My request for a refund was processed promptly, and I received a very apologetic response from the vendor. He also asked for any observations I might have as to why the shaft was not working, and I provided him with detailed information. Simply, there's virtually no tolerance for misalignment between the rotor hub screw hole and the anti-rotation collar screw hole. A variance of only a degree or two will cause binding of the ball links in their guides and that may result in the flybar binding against the main shaft. I saw this with both solid CF shafts; when I reinstalled the OEM main shaft those issues completely disappeared. I'm pleased that the vendor is very interested in producing a quality product and I complimented him on that interest. I'm hoping that, in the future, I will be able to buy from him with confidence.

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