OS .105 high comp starting problem

[kleinum]

Hi All

As the subject line says, I have now started experiencing starting issues with my OS .105 motor.

To tell the story in a point setup :

- Rapicon 15% nitro / 20% oil, stock 1 shim
- Uses a Align super starter
- It ran great and started fine last season
- Changed both bearing during the winter, no problems
- Had some after run oil in the bearings
- Mounted it back in the Trex 700N and hang it on the wall, fired it up a month ago
- Starter worked fine and motor turned fine as last year and started relatively easy (even if a bit cold outside)
- Idled and run the engine without blades and everything was normal
- Next day I took the heli for a test at a field, but now the starter could not turn the engine
- Took the plug out and ran the starter to make sure the engine was not flooded or anything obstructing normal operation. Mounted plug back and still the same problem.
- Unmounted engine, unscrewed backplate and everything seemed normal. Cleaned the engine for all exessive after run oil since I suspected this to give me sort of HydroLock state
- Mounted back and started the engine again in the heli without blades. Worked ok
- Tried again on the field, same issue again.......
- Unmounted it again from the heli, took backplate off, took head off, checked all mechanics and all seemed just normal
- Checked alignment with starter shaft, shecked on way bearing function, checked clutch mount on shaft and all seems fine
- Cleaned out hte engine again and it started just fine. On next attemt to fire it up the next day, same issue with starter stopping on torch...

Have now done this a couple of times, and I'm able to fire it up sometimes after unscrewing the plug, laying the heli on the side to get any eccessive fuel out etc. etc. but it's very hard to start and must be run for a periode on the starter before it fires up god. After it starts it acts just as normal.

Can not figure out why it should act like this every time it has had a tank of fuel running thru it, and cannot think of any mechanical reason for this behaviour. I always pinch off my fuel line to stop the heli so it should not be flooded, but I might be a bit on the rich side on tuning so could it be the reason ? It's colder now than last season when I tuned it, so I was not expecting it to be rich, but so it seems...

Did the same thing on another heli with OS .91 but this is acting normal like last season.

Any others seen this kind of issues on the .105 with hight tork/"hydrolock" feeling and what could casuse this ?

[dchekas]

1. Is there any fuel running out of the carburetor during any of this?

2. Very carefully, check your clutch. If you see any cracks around the outer diameter, this could be your issue. A cracked clutch shoe will swing out and grab at a very low rpm, and make it difficult for the starter to spin the engine over.

3. Can you try another starter, or a newer starter battery?

[kleinum]

1. I have not seen any fuel coming from anywhere while strugling with this

2. I have not "micro" inspected it, but yes I looked at it when I had it out from the heli on several occations. And it's not grabbing the clutch bell when it first fires up so mechanically that seem unlike that this could be the cause. But I will re-check if I pull it out even once more

3. I have tried another Align super starter, and also a Dynatron I have (but only on 12V and it did also struggle) I'm afraid of using a heavier starter, as if the problem is "HydroLock" like I could very fast rip up my crank

[ticedoff8]

The Align starter is crap.
I never could get my Align starter to turn my OS 91HZ-R or a YS 91SR-3DS unless I used a 4S pack.
Of course, the 4S pack doesn't fit inside the case, and the the relay would almost always stick closed due to the current (so I had to bang it on the ground once the engine started), so I gave up on it.

Your best bet is to add a shim to the 91 and use the Dynatron starter with a 4S LiPo. A 4S LiPo shouldn't force the motor f you have a hydrolock.
When the 91 frees up a little, you can run the Dynatron on 3S and it will be fine.

Also, I have had issues with the pipe filling up with the unburned fuel. It runs through the engine and then the alcohol / nitro evaporates and you are left with 10% oil in the pipe. Then it runs back into the engine. Once that happens, you end up with a hydrolock.
If you remove the pipe and hold it at different orientations, you might get a lot of oil out of it.

Unless the rotor is trying to rip out of your hand when you are turning the engine with the starter (without the glowplug installed), then it is not a clutch issue.

[Mark17]

I was having very similar issues starting my 105 in my trex 700n. I was using the align starter successfully for about 5 or 6 gallons and it began to start having trouble turning it over. I thought hydrolock as well. Pulled the plug several times to get it going. After finally getting it started the first flight it was easier to get it going the next couple tanks. It got to where I could not get it started at all with a fully charged align starter.

I got a dynotron and a 6s pack and it has fired it up every time ever since. I don't think I've actually had this 105 motor really hydrolock yet. I was told the motor can finally seat in and create more compression.

Now I'm using an 18v makita on a dynatron and won't ever go back. Now the align starter sits on the shelf almost new with nothing to do.

[Rob43]

+1 Same here, except running YS. Align starter is just girly enough to start 50's. Real men use engine starters. LOL....I prefer my Makita powered Dynatron for any starting. Spins much faster as well.

[kleinum]

Thanks guys for sharing your stories
I thought I was the only one in the world experiencing this

Even how strange I think this is since it worked last season, I will look for solutions now.

Since I do have a Sullivan starter I will try this with a temporary battery setup on 4-5 cell to see if this is enough to get the engine turning. Even if I like the size and form factor on the Align I might consider starting using my Sullivan. The Align has no problem what so even to start my .91 so I would like to solve my issue to be able to use it also on my .105.

I would check out this possible cause:
Also, I have had issues with the pipe filling up with the unburned fuel. It runs through the engine and then the alcohol / nitro evaporates and you are left with 10% oil in the pipe. Then it runs back into the engine. Once that happens, you end up with a hydrolock.
If you remove the pipe and hold it at different orientations, you might get a lot of oil out of it.

I have read and seen pictures of different mods on the Sullivan (including the Makita version), but do anyone have a direct link to where this can be bought ? I need both the battery and the "red" starter shaft (since i do only have the aircraft rubber in front with an heli adapter insert).

[Mark17]

Here is the link for battery adapter.

http://www.afineredgemfg.com/

[Mark17]

Here's the Sullivan Web site.

http://www.sullivanproducts.com/Star...sMainFrame.htm

[kleinum]

Thanks again for the links

Just to be clear:

1. I need the kit to adapt the battery for 45$ + 24$ shipping
2. Then I need the Makita battery 75$+ shipping from eBay
3. I need some kind of charger for the battery 75$ inkl shipping on eBay

A total of 250-300$ for the battery side of the project.

Also need the hex adapter to a eBay price on about 60-85$ + freight.

This is starting to get VERY expensive just to fire up my favorite toys
Lucky I actually da have the starter..........

[Mark17]

Yes you are correct. It is absolutly an obscenely expensive project for this starter set up. I did some searching around and got a brand new makita charger off craigslist for 40.00 and I found a battery for 40.00 as well.

There are cheaper ways to go. Having said that, now that I have mine set up and working, everytime I go to fire up my 700 I'm glad I made the investment.

[meowguy]

I am running a stock Align starter on my YS91SR and it always works. I do some times have hydro lock because I either left the pressure on or failed to pinch the fuel line to the carb when fueling.

To clear the lock lay the Heli down on the muffler side, pinch off the fuel line to the carb and crank it until clear. Then stand it up and it should crank and start.

[msallua]

Thanks meowguy . Good information for a new in nitro guy

[abit late]

Never understood these complaints about the align starter. Mine is on its forth or fifth year and it starts my 105 easily, even after a new piston ring in the winter. Hope you find a fix. Not convinced that a monster starter is the right solution.

[mqowen]

Originally Posted by abit late

Never understood these complaints about the align starter. Mine is on its forth or fifth year and it starts my 105 easily, even after a new piston ring in the winter. Hope you find a fix. Not convinced that a monster starter is the right solution.

Mine align starter will start my os 55 fine, but locks up on my 105. New dynatron starter and it works fine. Maybe ther is some variation among starters or engines.

[msallua]

Stopped of using Align and ordered a Dynatron.
The Sullivan Extension Tip (very expensive) is good or need order another adapter and wand?

Thanks in advance

[jangelo3562]

I bought the sullivan hi torqure start with the JR wand and still have a little troulbe on cold starts but it works...still breaking in my 1.05 yet so hopefully it'll loosen up

[msallua]

With 4s.lipo?

[dsmit258]

I have always used a plain Hobbico starter with a 4S lipo, cranks my 91 HZ-R 3D engine everytime with no hestitation. Fairly inexpensive setup too.