Blade 130x Tail Issue - Spinning Tail, Tail Blowout, Issue / Resolution

[Tailbender]

I ended up with a defective 130x out of the box and it took some time and diagnostic work to find the problem. Issue and Resolution section titled: “The Tips…. ” later if you just want answers.

1. Cyclic ball linkage on reversed (so the ‘C’ bend hit the canopy posts when servo moved)

2. Torque Tube (TT) put in backwards – longer bevel goes forward / if not TT tail gear will slip forward

3. Boom pushed too far into frame body causing the front torque tube gear to ride too high and bind.

4. Tail servo mount was flush against main frame so tail blade pitch opposite of what’s needed at center. You want a slight pitch to resist torque less Heli will need lots of tail on spin-up to prevent spinning (so move tail servo mount aft slightly). On mine the thickness of a quarter and a penny 26 cents was perfect

5. Tail servo had weak solder joint to motor and came loose and had to be soldered.

6. The tail box had very loose bearings that would cause the tail slider to bind a certain RPM and cause the heli to spin since the tail would lock.

7. Travel nut on cycle servo not sealed with silicon or CA causing the nut on the servo to come loose and the gear shift to slip out.

Background:

First off kudos to HeliFreaks here that have come up with tips and a shout out to Rob and Randy, my local 130x gurus…. More kudos for Horizon hobby sending me a new tail servo when my new 130x had a bad solder joint where the wires attach to the servo motor (a common problem seen here on the boards so check your bird).

It took me a lot of time to figure out tail issues since there was a combination of problems. I worked the tail, swapped boards, servos to finally figure out the issues.

The Tips….

Issue: The torque tube is sliding out of the rear plastic tail gear that is pressed on the torque tube and scores the tail shaft spacer.



Resolution: The torque tube is installed backwards. The longer bevel on the torque tube goes forward and fits the front metal gear, the smaller bevel goes in the white tail gear. If this is reverse (as it was from the factory on my heli) the torque tube will slide through the real tail gear and score the tail shaft spacer. I put a little TriFlow on the torque tube to reduce friction.


Issue: Tail spins and looses control
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oERp45VOVvc[/ame]

Resolution: Common cause the white gear at the end of the torque tube on the in the tail box stripped so it slips on the torque tube (the gear may look fine but the flat in the center hold is rounded) / same can happen to gear on tail shaft. To check, hold the gear and gently turn the heli main gear, if tail gear slips on shaft replace with a new gear. Once in place add a small of SuperGlue (CA) where the shaft goes into gear with a small brush or toothpick to hold gear. Unlike a bigger heli where you can see gear issues, I found on the 130x normally the problem is the gear spinning on the shaft, and the gear can look perfect. If either gear slides on shaft, it will appear to function OK until the tail under stress and when slipping occurs you will find the heli starts spinning. Here's what it should look like with none of the torque tube sticking past the tail gear.



Issue: On spool-up, you have to counter torque with rudder to stabilize heli so it doesn’t spin

Resolution: Put a slight amount of pitch against torque by sliding the tail servo down the boom away from the heli body – on mine it was the distance of a quarter and a penny width

Issue: When you spin the main gear there’s binding and it doesn’t spin free.

Resolution: Most common reason is the tail boom is too far into the heli body making the front gear on the torque tube riding too tight against the drive gear / carefully loosen all the screws holding the boom and slide out a bit to get correct alignment. Problem #2 not as common the motor pinion and main gear mesh too tight / if so elongate the motor screw holes in the frame slight so you can adjust pinion tension. Once these adjustments made, you can spin the main gear and have very little friction. Remember to put TriFow on all bearing, they come dry in the box and it makes a difference.



Issue: Transmitter rudder control stops working after throttle above 50% ( see example: www.youtube.com/watch?v=oERp45VOVvc

Resolution: Common issue is either the tail slider is binding due to bad bearings or vibration caused by bent tail shaft. Replace loose parts that cause binding that can only be seen at speed. This is a tough problem to find since it the tail works fine until the head speed increases causing vibration and binding. If tail shaft has lots of play replace bearings or replace tail box with MicroHeli or Lynx tail box

Issue: You feel tail binding when you move main gear…

1. Check to make sure the front tail gear on the main shaft just below the main bearing block is OK (no missing teeth or elongated hole in the main shaft)

2. Check the mesh between the front tail gear on the main shaft and the front torque tube gear is right. There should be a small amount of front and back play on the torque tube. If this gear too tight it binds – loosen and ‘carefully’ pull out the boom a mm or so to get proper fit.

3. Rotate main gear and make sure that tail shaft true

4. Check the tail box gears and bearing and make sure bearings, and tail shaft / pitch slider lubricated

Issue: Tail servo out of stock

Resolution try using a DS35 digital super sub micros servo instead for about $11 see discussion: www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=432547 or an excellent How To link to install a DS35 Tail Servo
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=462720

Lastly – I’d put CA on each of the servo lock nuts and on the drive gear at the bottom since I’ve seen both come loose and slide away from servo drive motor. Here’s an example where the top nut came off on a cyclic servo causing a crash – notice how the gear has dropped down below the drive gear. Here is description of the problem found in some servos, mine being one of them: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1684345

Note in the photo below nartac pointed out another problem in that the right and left ball links are reversed. Later in the posting, you can see the difference where I swapped them so they are more straight up and down




Be sure to lube everything – the heli I had came with everything dry

Other helpful videos – Great stuff from other here on HeliFreak

Blade 130X Setup for Success
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=448616

Blade 130 X Horizon Repair Videos
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD448C0DBD7EF00DE

Blade 130x Torque Tube (take apart) Inspection
www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0sfSyE1d2E

130x Tail Servo Flaw - The silicone glue that is holding in the spring rod for the tail servo came off after 30 seconds of flight making the tail inoperable.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1684345

130x Gryo Gain Programming
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=429592

130x Tail Grip Flip
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=442678

MircoHeli 130x Parts
http://www.microheli.com/store/advan..._description=1

Lynx 130x Parts
http://www.lynxheli.com/index.php?cP...d77714136ccf8c

For people using the metal tail box from Lynx / here’s tip from tech support (Pins I had for pitch arms were too small but the stock 130x pins were perfect). For the pitch slider arm I had to recess the set screw hole slightly since the set screw was too short – here’s their answer

Hi Mike, for the tail case, the pin need force in, the problem is HH pins are not all the same, we are faced and discovered that problem, nothing we can do, if holes too big than the screw cannot lock the pin 1- change the screw make it longer 2- file a little the plane surface were the screw head will flush and that the standard screw will go inside more and hold the pin. About the tail pitch slider pin, we modified it because before was too tight and people cannot insert the pin than we made 0.01 mm big the holes and people can apply CA or lock thread to avoid the pins go out. No need other pins, just install and add a drop of CA in the 4 pin head to create a layer of CA that will lock the pins.

[nartac]

do you know that you placed your servo links wrong? Just exchange them and they should be straight. Nice post btw.

[renefigueroa]

+1 on the post. I do have a question for you on one of your points. you stated "astly – I’d put CA on each of the servo lock nuts and on the drive gear at the bottom since I’ve seen both come loose and slide away from servo drive motor. Here’s an example where the top nut came off on a cyclic servo causing a crash – notice how the gear has dropped down below the drive gear". I am not sure where you applied the CA, just trying to learn. on my old tail servo the motor itself moves on its housing and away from the drive gears. I guess I am not sure which are the lock nuts you speak about. Thanks

[Tailbender]

Nartac - GREAT FIND... I keep the linkage in order from out of the box - one more thing I could have posted as being weird initially. Guess the guy that built my heli at the factory might have just started <grin>

Good question Renefigueroa... thanks for pointing that out - missed adding the link to that details on that... updated my post to have the sentence: Here is description of the problem found in some servos, mine being one of them: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1684345

[renefigueroa]

So that's what you meant, they are so little I didn't notice it was a lock nut!! I just checked the bad servo and the one on the new heli, and they both seem to have a clear type glue on them. Thanks for the Video, very nice

[Tailbender]

Sharp eye nartac / I swapped the ball links right to left and you're right - perfect alignment / I think it make the throw smoother... Thanks again...




Another tip I found that worked well... when the Servo nut came loose causing a hard inverted crash, w the Heli finding the only piece of concert to land on / just my luck... the canopy tip sheered off. Found that some 2-gel epoxy and some 0.070" carbon fiber rod did the trick

[HFMan]

All good tips-

Not all heli's need the tail boom to be pulled out a bit. I think it depends on several factors. Mine works perfect when the boom is pushed all the way in.

Also... you don't necessarily need to pull the tail servo back to put more positive pitch in the tail rotor. Just adjust the linkage on the pitch link. I prefer to keep the servo against the frame- it can instantly tell me if my boom has tried to work its way out.

[Tailbender]

HFMan - good points... My comment about the tail boom is to check for gear binding. There are lots of variables but when mine came out of the box the tail boom, pressed all the way in caused the front gears to mesh incorrectly, the TT gear was riding too far into the drive gear - moving it out slightly got the perfect mesh and the binding went away

As for servo vs linkage move that's a good point to have the servo as a guide (I put a marker on bigger helis for the same reason) but I found my boom is so tight once in I don't think it can move and sliding the tail server mount is a much faster and visual way to see the pitch change albeit linkage adjustment works as well. On my heli I couldn't get the linkage short enough to get the correct pitch...

[Tailbender]

Have heard there are post here where people are snapping tail blades off in flight. This has happened twice w my 130x where you'll here a 'pop' then the tail goes of control... what happens is the stock tail fin breaks in flight. I used to run them loose but have friends that fly them tight and haven't had the same problem - maybe the play causes the failure...

I see Lynx now has re-designed aftermarket main and tail blades - will be interesting to see how they work... see the bottom of the page at
http://www.lynxheli.com/index.php?cPath=128_119

[Tailbender]

Found after a lot of hard flying the front plastic torque tube gear finally wears out - when this happens you start getting loss of tail control, blows out and gets worth and worse...

Here’s what the wear looks like...



You can see how the plastic gear gets worn down...



Compared to new metal gear



Here's the metal gear replacement, albeit it's a much tighter fit than the plastic gear and took some work to get it in place..

[Tailbender]

I was wondering if other 130x pilots having any issued when you fly the 130x hard stock. With bigger heli's I can do big loops and rolls but on the 130x if you push to hard and spins out (sometime recovering sometimes not). Since there is no slippage in gears I was thinking maybe motor bogging and that slowed tail enough to not bit enough (using Lynx tail blades that have more bit then stock).

I've crank tail gyro up so almost getting fast wag to get as much hold as possible. Only thing I can think of is that compared to other helis doesn't look like a lot of tail pitch +/- even w JR11x transmitter at 100% I was thinking maybe I should bias a bit more against torque to get more push in that direction.

If you fly the 130x easy to moderate, it's great but if I push mine hard sometimes the heli will spin once or twice and recover... anybody else have that issue?

[Diogenes]

The only way I found to completely stop tbo on a loop (albeit everything dialed in) is to dump the stock tail servo and get a ds35. On my HP08, this was the fix.

I liked it so much, I have parts on order for my bird with stock motor as well.

[Tailbender]

koi-fish - The only way I found to completely stop tbo on a loop (albeit everything dialed in) is to dump the stock tail servo and get a ds35. On my HP08, this was the fix.

Koi-fish you maybe on to something there - I have the new microHeli bracket and a couple ds35 servos should bit the bullet and just put that on... I just need to search to find the thread that gives tips on how to mount a real servo...

[Tailbender]

Originally Posted by koi-fish

The only way I found to completely stop tbo on a loop (albeit everything dialed in) is to dump the stock tail servo and get a ds35. On my HP08, this was the fix.

I liked it so much, I have parts on order for my bird with stock motor as well.

Koi-Fish - that was the ticket... Adding a DS35 Digital Super Sub-Micro Servo replacing the weaker linear survo on the 130x was the ticket - Initial flight w new servo and fast tail slide, loops, tic/tocs that would spin heli before now sticks.. will know more once I fly it harder. The MicroHeli MH-130x121 bracket was the ticket / install and didn't have to do any mod to the tail ball link but turn it 90 degrees...

Even though the Lynx Bling is very cool


The real key to making the 130x perform well and have great tail hold is to get rid of the stock Blade linear servo and put a real servo on to control the tail... not only did this get rid of tail blowout, gives you faster pyro speeds

[Tailbender]

Update photos of tail servo... make the 130x a totally different bird...

[Tailbender]

Making it simpler...looks like HeliDirect has a pre-made Extension Cable for Spektrum DS35 ( I think MicroHeli has an option where it's included) but single cable looks like this is the ticket: http://helidirect.com/xtreme-extensi...0x-p-29512.hdx

[vmmattil]

Thansk for this great post. I was finally able to find the problem with my spinning tail: D gear round inside.

One more tip from me: a backwards installed tail shaft collar will cause vibrations. Check that the square side is outwards. Then, the bearing can do its work.

[blade450]

You deserve a medal! I would have never thought of replacing the tail shaft if your tail gyro isn't working, but that was the issue!
Awesome work, HUGE thanks to you.

[helifanatic99]

Actually, whoever said the DS35 is "stronger" is mistaken. It has slightly less torque than the stock servo, but it seems to work fine. As long as I had the servo (stock or DS35) adjusted on the boom to give a few degrees of "nose right" pitch (leading edges angled in towards the boom), I never got TBO even in the most extreme maneuvers.

Also, in that side pic of the DS35, did you cut off the heat shrink around the servo? I don't see it. If you did...bad juju...that's what holds the servo together since there are no case screws. It also makes that slot over the motor wide open to contamination.

[charles.frank]

I have gone through 2 ds35 servos, the last one lasted about 2 flights. Was flying and all the sudden tail started spinning, took it to the bench and pulled it off and Somehow it went retarded / twitches and moves with out input. Put back on stock and had no problems since / my son has one on his and has had no problems. Not sure if it has anything to do with flying styles / he's new and doing mild flight / im trying to fly it like my 700.

Sent from my SPH-L900