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Compass Helicopters Rage RC Hellicopter Discussion |
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12-10-2011, 05:45 PM | #1 (permalink) |
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Help with JIVE 100+LV on Compass Knight 600E
Hello All...
I finally got around to getting a Kontronik Jive 100+ LV to replace the faulty HobbyWing ESC on my 600E. Now, I'm looking for help with regards to setting the headspeed. I've programmed Mode 1 (reset), then Mode 4 (Heli 1), then Mode 9 (LiPo) and all seems well with the ESC. It initializes properly and I get the six beeps letting me know it sees my 6S 5000 LiPo. The biggest question I have now is with regards to setting the radio up for the proper headspeed. I don't really know what headspeed I need/want to run with this heli. With a 10-tooth pinion and 87 tooth main gear, running a the 980Kv motor that came with the kit on 6S power using Jive Mode4 governor mode, Mr. Mel's headspeed calculator gives me the following: Throttle 60%: 2046 Throttle 65%: 2110 Throttle 70%: 2173 Throttle 75%: 2237 Throttle 80%: 2301 Throttle 85%: 2365 Throttle 90%: 2429 Throttle 90%: 2493 I don't know that I want to run 2300rpm headspeed but, I want to make sure that I'm not beating up the ESC running down at 60% to keep the HS down closer to 2000. Am I more confused than I think? I'm thinking that around 2000 would be good to start with but, I may want to go with a lower headspeed. I just want to make sure that I'm not looking for problems out of the ESC if I drop down further. I do have the additional heatsink mounted with Arctic Silver so, I should have good cooling on the ESC. Any help and suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks, John
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John Compass Knight 600E, Blade 450, Blade 400, Blade SR, Blade mCPx, Blade 120, Blade mSR, Blade mCX, Blade CX2 |
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12-17-2011, 11:08 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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OK.... So apparently, I'm the only person on the entire forum running a Jive 100+ LV on a Compass heli. I'll take that, considering that I'm flying a Compass model that they don't even list on their website anymore.
I found the information I was looking for in the Kontronik sub-forum. Thanks for all the help people.
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John Compass Knight 600E, Blade 450, Blade 400, Blade SR, Blade mCPx, Blade 120, Blade mSR, Blade mCX, Blade CX2 |
12-18-2011, 11:26 AM | #3 (permalink) |
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I saw your post but since I didn't know the answer I didn't reply. Sorry no one got back to you but this isn't the busiest forum (for now). Some of the guys might have been away at the OHB and it's also getting close to Christmas so family life might be taking up their time right now.
Since you know the answer now why not share it and maybe it will help someone else in the future?
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Trex 700 Pro DFC - Compass 6HV - Vcontrol - Neo #nodroneshere - 104 |
12-18-2011, 11:57 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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It is safe (at least with the Kontronik Jive) to go even lower on throttle to achieve the desired lower headspeed. There are guys running as low as 20-25% and flying with 1000RPM HS.
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John Compass Knight 600E, Blade 450, Blade 400, Blade SR, Blade mCPx, Blade 120, Blade mSR, Blade mCX, Blade CX2 |
12-19-2011, 08:40 AM | #5 (permalink) |
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I am not familiar with the Jive but to achieve the head speed you want... it is best to use the correct gearing (pinion & main gear) and motor KV, keeping your ESC around 90 % +or -.
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12-19-2011, 09:06 AM | #6 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
(1) The Knight 600E is a 10T pinion, 87T maingear helicopter. There is no changing it. You've got an 8.7:1 ratio, period, the end. (2) Running at 90% does not leave much headroom on the ESC. Pitch-pumping a 600 heli with only 10% headroom on the ESC is going to make it very difficult for the governor to maintain headspeed. For helis that have an option to change out pinions / gears, I think the sweet spot they're looking for is 80% throttle for highest desired headspeed with 20% throttle headroom to give the governor a reserve.
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John Compass Knight 600E, Blade 450, Blade 400, Blade SR, Blade mCPx, Blade 120, Blade mSR, Blade mCX, Blade CX2 |
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12-19-2011, 10:25 AM | #7 (permalink) | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
As far as pitch pumping, you could do it at 90% depending on your batteries. |
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12-19-2011, 10:35 AM | #8 (permalink) | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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John Compass Knight 600E, Blade 450, Blade 400, Blade SR, Blade mCPx, Blade 120, Blade mSR, Blade mCX, Blade CX2 |
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12-19-2011, 10:50 AM | #9 (permalink) |
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Without going to too much expense and keeping your Knight stock. You can go to a Scorpion 4035-500KV with two 6s 3000 mah or 6s 3300 mah. Depending on the mah of your batteries you may be able to use them and still keep it at a decent weight.
One of the Knights is all orignal parts... flybar. The second one uses the Compass flybarless head. Both have all the power you want and then some. I thought about the 6HV but it reminded me of a large 500 size heli but is does scream. |
12-19-2011, 11:02 AM | #10 (permalink) |
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I made two decisions that will make it harder for me to upgrade the 600E.
(1) I went with the Jive 100+LV rather than the 100+HV. I didn't realize at the time that I could use the 100+HV on this heli with 6S power. (2) I'm running 6S 5000mah power. It's a tight fit as it is. I know I could go with two 6S 2500s or maybe a little larger but, than I've got a 6S 5000 just sitting around doing nothing. With the cost of a Jive100+HV and at least two more batteries, I don't think I'd be able to justify the expense. Now, if I auger this thing in at some point, I'll likely go the 6HV route. Once the AR7200BX finally comes out, I will likely want to go FBL on this heli. I cooked one of my TGY-1501's a couple of weeks ago. Stupid mistake where I had the servo horns on when I powered up and the ELE servo bound and let the smoke out before I realized what was going on. When I went looking for a replacement, everyone was backordered on those servos. So, I got to fork out for three DS610's. Those will come in handy when I go FBL but, it hurt the wallet quite a bit compared to replacing a single TGY-1501MG. I don't know that the 1501's would have been fast enough for FBL but they are considerably stronger than the DS610's. I have no doubt that the DS610's will be fast enough though since that's what Align bundles with their 600 and 700 FBL combos. Ahhh... The joys of being addicted to Helicopters. At least this habit is legal.
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John Compass Knight 600E, Blade 450, Blade 400, Blade SR, Blade mCPx, Blade 120, Blade mSR, Blade mCX, Blade CX2 |
12-19-2011, 11:08 AM | #11 (permalink) |
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Ahhh... The joys of being addicted to Helicopters & complications
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12-19-2011, 12:53 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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My 600E -8S- converted seamlessly to FBL , Compasss head, BeastX . I'll keep on flyimg it till it, till no more spares available........
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Lotus7 |
12-20-2011, 01:52 AM | #13 (permalink) | |
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What servos are you running for cyclics? And what specific head (links appreciated) are you running? I know Compass makes a FBL head but, with the 600E not being a current or even "listed" model, I've not found anything in my searches. Also, did/do you have to replace the swash is is it simply a matter of replacing the actual head (and swash-to-head linkages of course) and adding a FBL controller like the BeastX or AR7200BX?
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John Compass Knight 600E, Blade 450, Blade 400, Blade SR, Blade mCPx, Blade 120, Blade mSR, Blade mCX, Blade CX2 |
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12-20-2011, 02:19 AM | #14 (permalink) |
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Just for reference...
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=346267 I can't speak for any other manufacturer but, the Kontronik ESCs will handle very low throttle % to achieve the headspeed desired.
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John Compass Knight 600E, Blade 450, Blade 400, Blade SR, Blade mCPx, Blade 120, Blade mSR, Blade mCX, Blade CX2 |
12-20-2011, 07:43 AM | #15 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
Running Inolab DS750HB on cyclic.I use the old swash, no changes necessary , and just spaced the balls on the servo arms out to 11mm to get blue light at 6deg on the BeastX . The swash is even set up at the same height as it was on the flybarred heli The head is the standard Compass 6HV FBL head , standard length Delrin links, just had to screw in the links about 4 or 5 turns to get 0 pitch . Compass also sells the FBL head branded as a TracX ( sp?) suitable for a Trex 600 FBL conversion, This head is exactly the same as the Compass head . Btw the 600E and the 6HV uses the same mainshaft , so the FBL head was a easy bolt on We have also converted an Outrgae 550 equally easy with the TracX head . Having seen the other, more "typical" FBL heads with swash drivers and links, I'll happily pay the extra $ for the Compass head - it is just a beaut of simplicity
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Lotus7 |
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12-20-2011, 09:41 AM | #16 (permalink) |
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The TracX head links are 5mm longer. This will be better for the 600e. I did my setup before the TracX came out so I cut the main shaft 5mm shorter and re-drilled the hole by 5mm. Did not trust screwing the links out further.
Using BLS451 servos for the collective & BLS251 for the tail. |
12-21-2011, 12:52 PM | #17 (permalink) |
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I converted my 8s 600e to 12s last year using the Scorpion 4035-500. I did this mainly because I needed new batteries anyway and I wanted to share packs with my 500. I'm currently running 3300 6s pack (Voltz) which puts the flight pack weight just under 1000 grams.
Overall there is was not a "shock and awe" difference in power. At at my skill level and flying style, I didn't really benefit much from the upgrade. On the downside, the Scorpion is heavy and all that weight is sitting low. Though the model still feels light in the air, the change in vertical CG and added weight were a minor but unwelcome change. However there have been times I have considered going back to 8s for the weight savings. Overall I still love the model and will continue to fly it until I cannot get parts. The FL Compass head is so nice, I don't feel rushed to move to FBL. The rest of my fleet is going FBL so its likely to happen sooner or later. As for the headspeed, as always that's a personal preferance. I've tried 1800 to 2200. For me 1950 is just about right. Good performance, and long run times. The only downside to the slower headpseeds is the tail performance. Just not enough RPM. I was running the KBDD blades and have just switched to 95mm Edge blades. I hope that will help as I cannot find a larger blade without making the jump to a 700 class tail blade, which I might do anyway. If you've already got the packs and are satified with the performance of the model, I say just run them until the packs die. Then re-evaluate pack and motor choices.
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headspeed, jive 100+ lv, knight 600e |
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