IKON/Brain Gov

[rhodesengr]

Anyone using the IKON/Brain internal gov with their gasser? If yes, then using which sensor and detecting where: flywheel magnet or magnet mounted somewhere else?

I understand they are have totally reworked the Rescue function and will be releasing the new firmware in April.

If the Gov works on a gasser, then it is a viable integrated solution, at least for me (along with Neo as I've read).

[Sowa]

I gave up on ikon gov with the Zenoah. Couldn't get the gov to stop overspeeding. I think you witnessed this the last time I was at your field with Rudy.

Put a neo on it but I have been trying to validate the 570 so I haven't given the neo a try to see if it fixes my issue.

It sounds like it works for some people though, I was using an align sensor with one magnet off the main gear.

[fastflyer20]

NEO gov works fantastic, best I have used. Be ready for goofy setup if using a non-Vcontrol TX, like no idle adjustment without a laptop. I stuck the GY701 back on, run the throttle and rpm through the Jeti RX and life is good. The NEO flys better than any other FBL I have ever had on a gasser so it was worth the effort.

[Sowa]

Very goofy if your not using vcontrol, lots of head scratching for me. I'm still not sure I fully understand it all yet, really not a fan.

[rhodesengr]

lets stick to IKON, ok? I read the threads about neo and accept that it works. Just not going to go that way since I have a DX18 and considerable investment in Spektrum. I am looking for 3SX alternatives that are an integrated solution that will work with a full RX. Integrated (to me) means FBL/Rescue/Gov that works with a gasser. I have two gassers that run and fly just fine so I am in no big hurry.

I just heard today about the IKON Rescue rework so I'm trying to find out how the Gov aspect works.

[in2deep]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

lets stick to IKON, ok? I read the threads about neo and accept that it works. Just not going to go that way since I have a DX18 and considerable investment in Spektrum. I am looking for 3SX alternatives that are an integrated solution that will work with a full RX. Integrated (to me) means FBL/Rescue/Gov that works with a gasser. I have two gassers that run and fly just fine so I am in no big hurry.

I just heard today about the IKON Rescue rework so I'm trying to find out how the Gov aspect works.

Well now I'm torn: Do I stick to Ikon or explore all in one alternatives?

No experience with Ikon, so I've nothing to add there. I will note that Im unclear how their bailout will work while only using 3 axis, but I'm sure they have a work around.

As far as all-in-one alternatives for gassers, I'm thrilled with the Microbeast Plus units. I've got two in service on gassers and the bailout and gov both work as expected. The best part is now that Align has adopted them in lieu of the GPro/3GX, you can find them brand new for dirt cheap on ebay. Like, dirt cheap. Another $100 gets you the upgrade to bailout/gov. It supports srxl too, which makes for some clean wiring with the right RX.

[rhodesengr]

well here is the link that discusses it a bit. You can get in touch with Onthesnap (Alex) and ask about the 3-axis vs 6-axis stuff. He is head of the head of MSHUSA, lives near me, has a technical background, and is one hellava pro heli pilot.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=734750

So that is interesting about beastX. I used to fly AR7200BX before getting into 3SX so I was very curious when they moved towards Rescue and Gov features. I could have sworn there have been posts in this section that the Gov didn't work on gassers.

So with your Beastx's, which sensor do you use and is it running off the flywheel magnet or how?

[Sowa]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

I just heard today about the IKON Rescue rework so I'm trying to find out how the Gov aspect works.

It's a really good unit if you can get the gov to work. I think this is my fourth season flying it and everything else about it rocks. I was able to get the gov to work on the 570 and learned a few things from that experience.

The Bluetooth setup is freaking awesome, and the GUI is very well setup. It's a very painless experience to get the model flying.

If you do give it a shot, try getting the signal off the crank, I think the sampling rate is just to low at the main gear for the ikon gov to work.

[in2deep]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

So that is interesting about beastX. I used to fly AR7200BX before getting into 3SX so I was very curious when they moved towards Rescue and Gov features. I could have sworn there have been posts in this section that the Gov didn't work on gassers.

So with your Beastx's, which sensor do you use and is it running off the flywheel magnet or how?

The gov on the AR7200bx was not well suited for gassers, no question there. The gov function for the Plus/AR7210bx units was rebuilt from the ground up though. Works very well. I setup my throttle linkage using the Malorie method though, fwiw.

Ive tried a bunch of sensors, but only off the flywheel magnets. Best results have been the Spartan sensor mounted here. Align sensors have been hit or miss, but Im guessing that may have something to do with quality control of the align part. It will not work with the stator gator.

Just last night I pulled the maingear from the whiplash, going to try magnets there so I can read the actual headspeed versus engine speed. The plan is a low rpm alarm for practicing autos. But I digress...

[rhodesengr]

that is good to know then that the AR7210 is now an integrated solution.

I know, this is OT to my own thread but....I think maybe your sensor is not in the position where the field is the strongest. We have posted photos before of the location where the flywheel has the smallest distance to the outside. It would be at approx. 8:30 from where you sensor is now: next to the fan cover mounting hole just before the exhaust port. Also, probably should be rotated 90 degree so its horizontal. here is a link to my photo.
https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...1&d=1405481945

The magnetic flux from the flywheel comes out horizontally. If you look at the side of the flywheel, you don't see a magnet. You see laminated steel from a transformer core. There are two faces spaced close together. These are the exposed faces of a C-core. Back inside the flywheel, there is a magnet somewhere in the path of the C-core. The core is to magnetic flux as wire is to electricity. It basically routes the poles of the magnet to the face of the flywheel. The faces are essentially a North and South magnetic pole. These pole faces line up with another C-core outside the flywheel that has the ignition coil wrapped on it. When the flywheel core rotates into alignment with the ignition core, the "magnetic circuit" is completed and the flux in the cores jumps to a maximum value. This changing flux going through the coil is what makes the ignition pulse.

Anyway, when you have the sensor facing down, it is just picking up stray field because the core-faces point outwards not upwards. If you remove the fan cover, it is obvious why we put the sensor at the location in my photo. The flywheel is much close to the case there compared to anywhere else.

I think the electronics in some Govs gets confused by the signal produced by the flywheel because it is a North-South spaced very close together. The electronics is expecting either just one pole per revolution or two poles half a revolution apart.

[rbort]

Totally agree with Mark, actually if you put it up a little higher from where Mark has his you can get 95 to 97% reception from the Futaba sensor. I just took mine out of its case and put shrink wrap on it and gooped it to the engine. No mount needed, works good and you can just peel it off when necessary and goop back on later.

Here is a picture:

http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/rr...a=0&s=-Welcome

-=>Raja.

[in2deep]

I always appreciate an in-depth response. I guess I didn't realize the magnetic field was directional.

In the past I've had align sensors mounted as you guys do, I mounted the Spartan sensor where I did because Trillian was having success in a similar position. Futaba is a no-go for me due to the signal it puts out.

I enjoy experimenting with things like this, determining limits, etc. I will admit though, more tinkering equals less flying. That being said, I'm going to try the maingear magnets next and see how that works.

[Azalin]

I don't know how the Icon gov works with a Zenoah but I know how it works with a gt15. Worked very well. And that was 2 years ago with the old firware. I'm sure they have improved the gov much better.

The heli waited 2 years for me.

[Rahulgaba]

Ikon governor on my whiplash gasser with TRM 300 SE (magnets in main gear pickup) has been running amazingly !! Two updates ago, they fixed fuel engine governors on the ikon. The governor does not over speed or hunt at all! I didn't have that as a huge issue before but I could see where governor on gas had a little harder time! Now it's locked in! It's amazing. I may not be able to give an in depth on that, but I have ran ikon / msh brain since they came out on electrics , Nitros, and gas.

The governor has went through ups and downs no doubt, but the msh brain team has locked it down now ! I say it's amazing!!


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[in2deep]

Gaba did you set your throttle linkage on your 300 up traditionally, or use the Malorie Method?

I'm really curious to try a Brain with the new firmware coming out.

[Thaiboxer04]

I'm very interested in this as well. It would be nice to cut down on some wiring for the governor system! That is only if the new bailout feature works well too of course! LOL

[FlatCrank]

Originally Posted by Rahulgaba

Ikon governor on my whiplash gasser with TRM 300 SE (magnets in main gear pickup) has been running amazingly !! Two updates ago, they fixed fuel engine governors on the ikon. The governor does not over speed or hunt at all! I didn't have that as a huge issue before but I could see where governor on gas had a little harder time! Now it's locked in! It's amazing. I may not be able to give an in depth on that, but I have ran ikon / msh brain since they came out on electrics , Nitros, and gas.

The governor has went through ups and downs no doubt, but the msh brain team has locked it down now ! I say it's amazing!!


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Hello,
Could you share with me/us the sensor you are using and maybe a photo of how/where you have your magnets and sensor?
I'm just getting my engine broke in and will be affixing a Gov through my iKon in the near future.

Thanks a bunch!
FlatCrank

[Rahulgaba]

Originally Posted by in2deep

Gaba did you set your throttle linkage on your 300 up traditionally, or use the Malorie Method?

I'm really curious to try a Brain with the new firmware coming out.

well with the endpoints and the linkage length it naturally came closer to the malory method of setup than the traditional.

Its working well on default gains but overspeeds a little bit after a hard tic toc. NO its not caise of tune. not too rick or lean here. Its happy everywhere else.

sorry for the late response man

[Rahulgaba]

Originally Posted by FlatCrank

Hello,
Could you share with me/us the sensor you are using and maybe a photo of how/where you have your magnets and sensor?
I'm just getting my engine broke in and will be affixing a Gov through my iKon in the near future.

Thanks a bunch!
FlatCrank

I will try to post a pic here soon

but I am using an Align governor sensor with the magnets drilled and epoxied right into the main gear. The gear ratio in the software will be set to 1 (cause the sensor is picking up the exact head rpm).

nothing special here. but definitely can post my setup. I was using a crank position sensor on my nitro till last week, and that sensor died. I am going to this align sensor on main gear setup now for that nitro too! works beautifully!

[Rahulgaba]

Here are some pics . sorry couldn't get clean pics , but hope this helps


This method is simple and reliable and fool proof .. No matter Nitro , electric or gasser


One this to remember , there are two magnets on the diametric opposites of this main gear , one north up and one south up.

One tip, leave at least an xacto blade or two worth of space between sensor and magnet , as the magnets are so thin that if the sensor is too close , it will pick up both magnet North's (or South's) giving you half the desired rpm.







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