Do you use Dual Rates?

[KurtWarner]

I've never used dual rates. I set up my heli at 100 %, and just adjust my flip/roll rates in the FLB controller. Add expo to how you want it to feel off center stick. Some FBL controllers add expo in them at the default settings. I personally don't see when dual rates would ever come into play with a heli. Set it to how you want it to fly.... and go fly! To high of expo will affect how snappy your heli is on hard 3D maneuvers... Making some tricks harder.. ( aileron tic tocs is a good example)

[CGRAY]

I've always used varying dual rates on all my heli's. However, each one is obviously different, so the DR settings are different for each. Some are below 100, some higher. There isn't a right or wrong answer, all preference.

[cycled]

No, nor normal mode. My sticks and thumbs can do both fine and coarse enough movements, so I don't see much point (also changing rates annoys me).

[dr_boom]

Originally Posted by Raz0rSh4rp

Depends on the FBL unit.

Flybar heads need dual rates.
BeastX needs dual rates.
Any bankswitching fbl when used with a dx6i need dual rates.

Any bankswitching fbl unit that allows you to set rate of rotation does not need dual rates.

I have a BeastX, in what way does it need dual rates?

[minatrix]

Originally Posted by dr_boom

I have a BeastX, in what way does it need dual rates?

It's not that beastx NEEDS dual rates. It's that the beastx does not have bank switching, so if you want a more aggressive flight mode and a more docile flight mode available at the flick of a switch, d/r and expo from the tx is the way to achieve this.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by minatrix

It's not that beastx NEEDS dual rates. It's that the beastx does not have bank switching, so if you want a more aggressive flight mode and a more docile flight mode available at the flick of a switch, d/r and expo from the tx is the way to achieve this.

+1 on this.

I effectively use 130% cyclic DR for the AR7200BX on my 450X. It's the only way I can get fast enough flip and roll rates. (For Taranis, you travel adjust so 100% DR is 130% servo signal).

vBar, you can set agility in the banks (which is effectively DR controlled by the FBL). The advantage of this is resolution (division of signal is done closer to the flight controller, which leads to smoother flight).

For BD you can use RTT to set agility based on a channel (but you then have to default tail gain).

DR is for max agility. Expo is for center stick feel.

[frankiexp2]

I dont use any dual rates on anything. I used it when I was learning. Headspeed does the trick if I want to tame if for landing or something...

[jbrandt]

Originally Posted by Slyster

Yeah everyone (pros too) uses expo.. that is for all r/c flying.. planks too. But why would anyone want to change how their heli feels? Consistency is key to progressing. Maybe when I am really good (8 more years?) I'll try dual rates just for fun and change.

Why would you NOT want to change how your heli flies, but it's okay to change how a plank flies? That doesn't really make sense.

It depends on your flying style, and what type of flying you're doing. Yeah, smack 3D stuff and you'd probably want a really consistent feel, but slow it down for big air stuff where you want smooth inputs but your deflection doesn't need to be as big, you can switch rates. Same goes for planks. I'd always start with low rates for just tooling around or more scale looking flights, but when I started feeling saucy, I'd up the rates to full and start stirring the sticks.

[Nelsonisms]

Just reading through this it seems to me that a lot of people get the term "dual rates" confused with the concept of rates and expo in general. On most transmitters today even the term "dual rates" is a misnomer since most of them have three position switches and thus technically "triple rates."

So whether one adjusts the rates on their transmitter is one thing. Whether they use 2 or more rate programs (i.e. dual rates, triple rates) that are changed in flight is quite another.

Of course with many modern flight controllers, the idea is even more complex when rates and expo can be programmed on the FC itself and even in individual banks. I personally prefer to set it in the FC if that is an option. If not, I will program the rates on the transmitter.....not dual rates...just one rate program.

To me, dual rates and bank switching are essentially synonymous terms. They're both useful when you're tuning out a model and not sure how it's going to behave. But once I've settled on what works I'll usually go disable the dual/triple rates and/or bank switching or at least make them all the same so I don't accidentally select the wrong one later.

[minatrix]

Actually I think dual-rates would be defined as a method of limiting servo travel via tx that is not limiting servo ATF (limits) but by reducing the full travel by a percentage of the set max servo travel.

Dual rates are adjusting the stick position sent from your tx.

Agreed that the "dual" part is not exactly accurate, but is so long established as the term that changing it would only cause more confusion than benefit.

Dual rates is something you so on yuor transmitter. I wouldn't call my bank switching dual rates, although I can accomplish the exact same thing.

[Nelsonisms]

Originally Posted by minatrix

Actually I think dual-rates would be defined as a method of limiting servo travel via tx that is not limiting servo ATF (limits) but by reducing the full travel by a percentage of the set max servo travel.

Dual rates are adjusting the stick position sent from your tx.

Agreed that the "dual" part is not exactly accurate, but is so long established as the term that changing it would only cause more confusion than benefit.

Dual rates is something you so on yuor transmitter. I wouldn't call my bank switching dual rates, although I can accomplish the exact same thing.

I think we're in agreement conceptually and it's completely a semantic argument.

I've just never liked the idea of using an inadequate term just for convention's sake. It's the same argument that ensues when people want to hold on to the term "flybarless system". That "everybody else calls it that" isn't a valid argument in my eyes. Although I know that I would be in the minority there. To them I say you better keep calling your car a "horseless buggy."

[FailureToFly]

DR are really useful.

For BX they are pretty essential. I run extreme, 125 throws plus 125 DR on my X3 on an AR7200BX; it's nice and lively at this point. Without massaging throws and DR you have a pretty slow BX heli.

VBar. I recently maxed out VBar agility at 120 and wanted some more speed. I simply pushed DR up to 120 and it's now nice.

Apart from adding speed, the best use for DR is tuning IMHO.

You want to speed up your roll rates and you don't know how much to go. Easy.

You set say 115, 120 and 125 with your chosen expo and start at 115 (say you are currently on 110) and move up until you feel the heli is at a nice speed level. If it's too fast, you drop back. It's the most simple way and you don't need to even pull out a laptop.

Laptop tuning is fine but you need to setup your banks etc and swap between them to get the feel you like. With DR you can do this before and during flying and simply land, tweak and fly until you are happy.

There is no right or wrong.

I personally always fly at the same speed and never really deviate (I couldn't imagine flying with a slow DR for a certain style of flying and move to a faster roll rate for say 3D).

[jharkin]

Originally Posted by gunny_jeeves

You kinda nailed it for me. Both planks and helis. I like a consistent feel, so on a 3D plank, I set up low rates and some high rate too. I take off in low, flip to high a few mistakes high and land and adjust. Once my high rate is dialed in, I normally fly in high rate from then on.

I like dual rates regularly on my helis more. I want an easy going bird during takeoff and landing, and if I can, I still want to fly that bird, just with more on tap and way more aggressive movements at the end of stick travel. I remember old days transitioning to idle up and a heli would shoot up into the air, or drop 5 feet... It was pitch and throttle curves mismatched. Those days are over now, but I do some tuning by feel, from as low as 15% expo! to as high as 60% expo.. I had tried even higher, but only on planks, and usually that means your elevator can go +- 70 degrees... 70-75 expo will tame that down but be able to work like instant stop air brakes in blenders, flips, and popping into a hover.

I call a loop that takes place in the length of the airframe a flip. That's what a 70 degree elev will do

70 degrees of elevator????? OMG that's nuts... Never seen that before.

I run 50 degree 3D rate on my 50cc and even with that I have to be realllllly careful. Its fine for harriers etc but if I'm flying high speed pattern and hit that rate by accident full stick could literally rip the wings off.
I do most flying at my pattern rate... 12 degrees... That's enough for any non3D move- crisp snaps, tumbles, even KE spins.

[KiloXray]

Originally Posted by Nelsonisms

Just reading through this it seems to me that a lot of people get the term "dual rates" confused with the concept of rates and expo in general. On most transmitters today even the term "dual rates" is a misnomer since most of them have three position switches and thus technically "triple rates."

So whether one adjusts the rates on their transmitter is one thing. Whether they use 2 or more rate programs (i.e. dual rates, triple rates) that are changed in flight is quite another.

Of course with many modern flight controllers, the idea is even more complex when rates and expo can be programmed on the FC itself and even in individual banks. I personally prefer to set it in the FC if that is an option. If not, I will program the rates on the transmitter.....not dual rates...just one rate program.

To me, dual rates and bank switching are essentially synonymous terms. They're both useful when you're tuning out a model and not sure how it's going to behave.

Exactly 100% this. To me "dual rates" simply refers to the ability to flip a switch and have a different amount of "throw limit". It doesn't matter if that is electronically achieved via the tx or the FBL.

[Xrayted]

DR on the TX was one of several ways to calm things down until we started using modern flight controllers.

Now if possible, you want to change the flip and roll settings within the FC not the TX.

For example if you have a 200* per second elevator flip rate and its too fast, using 85% rates on the TX elevator channel is the same thing as simply setting 170* in the FBL unit instead, however you lose resolution when you decrease the TX rates.

Keep the TX rates set to 100% for full channel resolution and tune the channel movement rate to your liking in the flight controller instead

[Relisys190]

I run one set of rates.

However I use bank switching setup on my IKON. Lower headspeed = different flip and roll rates.


But 90% of the time I run my highest headspeed..

Low headspeed is always cool for take off just before switching to high HS and doing an aileron roll and punchout to the sky for my buddies that havn't seen it fly.

[MinskUK]

These days I keep the TX simple and adjust a roll rates, piro rates and expo on the controller. Responsiveness with agility settings and pop with governed head speed. It likely amounts to dual rates done differently.

We've never had it so good