630 question about motors, gearing, and low head speed...

[gunny_jeeves]

Crap!!! My wallet freaking hates me... (It's the bloody pulp in my pocket...)

So the Zippy Compact 60C - 3300's are on sale this week too... Grrr... $37 each...

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ehouse%5F.html

[Smoggie]

3300 might be a bit small for the 630. While it would fly ok and flight time would not be too bad if you took it easy, it would end up very tail heavy.

Most fly with batteries around 4000mAh. I use 3850mAh Nanotechs.

[gunny_jeeves]

If that is the case, then I might be ok with my existing batteries for my Yak. (I'm not yet skilled enough to fly the thing that I can tell the difference between the extra few hundred grams of weight)

[xahhax]

I have a 4035-560 Scorption, stock pinion, Kontronik 160 and 4100mah 12S setup.
This is my most aggressive/powerful/agile goblin of my fleet, i absolute love it.
6S won't wake it, it will kill the packs. This is a 12 machine.

[gunny_jeeves]

What is your head speed? I will end up with a 12s setup and 560kv 700 motor. (On the way from China lol) Very similar setup.

[gunny_jeeves]

Just fiddled with the 630 model in Phoenix...

How true to life is that model?

Reason I ask is this:
I edited it and modified a few things.
1. Gov RPM.
2. Weight (used actual projected numbers from my weight)
3. Motor power (watts to hp)
4. Gearing and max RPM of motor. (Set to actual)

End results:
1000 rpm - will not take off.
1500 rpm - flyable, but a dog... (Flies like a scale heli with negative pitch option.)
1800 rpm - flys good actually. Not a hummingbird on crack, but good and solid and predictable.
2000 rpm - sweet. Flies like a goblin.
2200+ - not attainable. Just can't do it with that motor.

My opinion - it's worth building it 6s to fly at 1800 head speed while learning the platform.

Tested my planned spec also with 12s, 560kv and stock 9.8 to 1 ratio. It flies about 200 rpm above the 6s side. At 2000 rpm it flies like a good normal heli, 2200 - flies like a goblin... 2400 flies like a beast. (Looked like I could get about 2600 with that, but no need. )

I was on a conference call muted, so didn't cost me any time. Seemed really believable too.

Curious if you guys who have phoenix may have tried this and if it is fairly close to actual. Seems at least believable. At 1500 rpm, you flip it, with no collective, it will loose about 6-8 feet of altitude. Like another member mentioned, you need to be way ahead of it. Tail won't hold well, and pitch pumps are like a guy dead lifting 1000 pounds... Down is super fast, up, well not so much...

Oh yeah.. For giggles, I put unreasonable motor speeds in and set gov to 3000. You just gotta try that if you own phoenix (LOL)

[xahhax]

Originally Posted by gunny_jeeves

What is your head speed? I will end up with a 12s setup and 560kv 700 motor. (On the way from China lol) Very similar setup.

I don't have a way to measure headspeed (other than looking at the SD card from the kontronik)...I run a 80% throttle curve on the kontro.
It should be 2300+
Works for me :-)

[gunny_jeeves]

Yeah you got me really curious, and I got to messing with Phoenix... I can attest the 130x, 300x and the Align 450's fly very close to the real deal. So I manipulated the rpm, it made a difference... manipulated the weight... same thing... so researched and plugged in my actual numbers, learned a lot.. (Well kind-of, it reinforced what everyone was saying.)

1400 is the cusp of true low headspeed... (Below that and it won't take off, so battery size and weight make huge differences.)
1800 is fun and agile like a normal heli set up for 3D. (And a great first goblin flight headspeed.)
2000 is snappy.
2200+ is a true Goblin.

So its right in line with what I was told in this thread. Though at 6S it will fly, and fly good, it won't really fly like a Goblin. The difference between my 6S and 12S will be night and day.

[Smoggie]

I originally had 1800RPM set in the Castle governor as my low headspeed. It's ok at that now i have the 660mm wide chord blades on, not stellar but not too bad.

With the standard blades is was pretty sluggish at 1800RPM, perfectly flyable and probably capable of mild 3D in the right hands. But it didn't have the punch you would expect from any decent 3D capable heli, let alone a Goblin.

I'm FAR from a hard flyer but even i much prefer the way it flies at 2200+RPM (2100 is good with the 660mm blades)

[Skidpad]

Originally Posted by gunny_jeeves

Skidpad, How does the 630 fly with 1700-1800 headspeed?

Just the nature of the beast, I will be building it as a 6S initially and I expect this is a good reasonable head speed I will be able to reach without taxing my battery. I'm limited by what I have on hand today, basically a 150 Amp ESC, and an 1100kv motor good for about 110 AMPS.

Also, I am no "Heli God", but I can fly well do flips, loops, rolls and (albeit ugly) elevator tic-tocs. I don't crash often, and I plan on using the Ikon Self-Level as a bail out if I need to, but reality is that this is my first Goblin, and my first heli over 500 size.

I'd expect that 1800 on a Goblin would feel somewhat more agile than a more normal heli. My Servos are HV capable, and all is good there, but my external BEC / Power distributor, is not here yet... and I'd need to feel it out to see about a 12S option. At 12S I don't think I can get two 6200 packs in it, so there would be more batteries on the way in the 3300 range.

I just ended up with the kit as a bit of a surprise and noticed that I could make a go at it as 6S while I wait. (Wallet recovery, etc...) I'd really like to know how your experience is at 1800 RPM.

How it flies at 17-1800 depends on your point of reference Compared to how it flies on a single 6s-5000 it flies awesome and is a rocket, but it's incredibly tame, docile, and dog-ish compared to 2350.

In all fairness though, it flies "ok" at 17-1800... Just fine for cruising around, yet it will tolerate and perform my inept tic-tocs at those speeds. Graceful funnels at that speed, too.

If it'll fly at 1300 (and it does), it'll fly at 1800. Gear it accordingly, try it out and get used to it, then gradually bring your headspeed up if you want - don't obsess over high headspeeds to make a 630 fly initially if you've never flown one previously.

My $.02

[gunny_jeeves]

Thanks a million!

This is a double-barrel new step for me...

1. First (dare I say) 700 size model as the 630 is not really a 600.
2. First Goblin.

I guess technically, my first 12S heli too, even though she will maiden as 6s.

With my 6s motor I should be able to get 1800 head speed, and that will note bake my batteries... My 12S stuff is all on the way from various places.

Plan A: 6S, 1100kv motor, 150 amp esc, HV servos but run on LV setup from built in BEC, and Ikon FBL. Battery: 6s 6200 40c (875 grams)

Plan B: (later on..) 560kv motor, 120 amp HV ESC... (Actually capable of 14s) 2s battery for electronics and voltage regulator. (Came in yesterday! Woot!) should be 8.4 to servos, and 5.5 dedicated to receiver... Battery: 6s 4000 40c x2

Can't wait. I know I am not your typical Goblin owner, and that has caused some weird questions... Words can't really say how much I appreciate all you guys help!

My Goblin ate my Gaui

[Skidpad]

Good deal - keep us posted on how it goes. We all know a 12s setup will fly on 6s via uber-low headspeed, but I don't ever recall seeing a 630 specifically setup for 6s. As others have mentioned, your batt will be your limiting factor in headspeed and how hard you can fly, but I'll add don't forget battery physical size - a 6200 is going to be plenty big.

Battery sizes vary widely, so that 6200 may or may not fit; have you compared dimensions to frame capacity?

Good luck!

[gunny_jeeves]

Yep. The Zippy Compact series pack more battery into well known form factors. These are nearly identical to 5000 batteries. I use them in my Yak 54 that's also 12S. Just will need to get some 4000's for the Gobby probably. We will see.


http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=72505

Dimensions - 158x45x62 mm. 875 grams.

[Skidpad]

Very good. I run 3700's in mine, but flight times are short when turning 2350 (3:40 or so. Lol). I don't care though... I enjoy the heck out of this heli

[gunny_jeeves]

I can deal with 3:40

Heck I might be up in the 5:00 range with 6200's! More than that is too long to fly 3D for me... Will be a while before I start dogging it out.

I love my build on this one. 100% HobbyKing gear, and a great airframe and FBL... I have always had good luck with HobbyKing stuff, so that's what I'm using. My Yak turns heads at the field when it spins up that huge prop from complete silence... Then the echo goes through the whole park and draws spectators... The 630 will probably sound like a real heli, then hit idle up and it becomes a buzz saw...

It will be a while before I do anything psycho with it, but 8's, loops, and hanging at the top are fair game. My Gaui will be my practice nut-job. It's pretty sick on the sticks. All top or very high end there. Scorpion, YGE, and RJX servos. Built by a heli-pro actually, so if I get my Goblin flying like that, I'm golden!

My servos are 0.07 sec on cyclic, and 0.04 on tail. Should be fine. All are over 10 kg torque. Tail is actually 21 kg.

I still think it will fly better than everyone thinks on 6s. Not over 2k, but up to 2k should be possible.

[Smoggie]

I've no doubt you can get decent performance on 6s.. The issue is it needs lots of amps to make the power. Just keep a close check on the motor. It would be all too easy to exceed it's max current rating. Check how hot it gets after flying. It's a big old heli to be hauling around on that size of motor.

The ESC being rated for 150A should be ok as long as you don't push it.

[gunny_jeeves]

Gah! My 12s 560 motor is in the States! But not here yet!!

On pins and needles ready to start build...

[CrashmanEd]

Originally Posted by xahhax

I have a 4035-560 Scorption, stock pinion, Kontronik 160 and 4100mah 12S setup.
This is my most aggressive/powerful/agile goblin of my fleet, i absolute love it.
6S won't wake it, it will kill the packs. This is a 12 machine.

I totally agree with xahhax - this is a 12S monster. Disc loading demands high head speed for decent performance. It is too heavy and not the right 630 IMHO to go 6S with, as several have attested, but as a 12S beast at 2300+ it kicks the ass of almost all 700s for agility and smack. I love both of mine (one with the Scorp 4035-560, and the other with the Quantum 4135-530) and prefer them to Gob700's for all-out smack flying. Both have the same high end, but the Scorp rig has a little more pop. Both are running Kontronik 120+HV ESCs.

[gunny_jeeves]

I'm rethinking the 6s mostly due to time. (Have little of it) also knowing my 12s esc made it here, and 12s motor is already stateside, it should be here by end of week.

[Skidpad]

Wise choice... Set it up as 12s, and run a single 6s pack when you want a change of (much slower) pace. Keep it up high at first.