Forza 700 Quality

[OverTemp]

360Wings, thanks for the info, however I have counterpoints.

It too have built many large high quality machines: Alees, Logo, JR, Compass, Minicopter, etc... this is the first I've seen this in a 700 swash and the last place I expected it.

Those servo currents seem ok, but are rather high compared to mine in my Diabolo with a swash that is not stiff yet somehow has developed no slop. My peaks are 3.4 Amps, with average around 1-1.5.

I can barely move the ball with my fingers. When the swash is deflected, that ball is going through a full 360 degree wobble 35 times a second. Not great on the servos. Flight loads on servos are surprisingly low... Our helis and blades are designed that way.

Lastly, in another lesser kit I had a tight swash. In cold weather the swash would nearly bind. Became very difficult for the servos to move it, and difficult for it to find a consistent center. I'll leave this one out in the cold and see if a similar situation develops.

I suspect you wouldn't accept the same binding in a tail linkage... Why is it ok here?

[360Wings]

I didnt have a close look at the swash but it looks like it can be pulled apart. If it is serviceable i would be pulling it apart just incase something isnt lined up correctly or has been over tightened .

[LaDon]

It don't take much to break in the swash. Ours was a little tight also but it freed right up

[OverTemp]

I contacted JR Americas. They said to use a machinist oil on the swash ball. I think those are petrol based. Seems odd to me, given the plastic phenolic. Thoughts? I've never oiled a swash ball before.

[OverTemp]

I just set the swash outside for 20 min in 42F weather and it completely locked up. Unacceptable. It's gotta be replaced. I have a local JR rep I'll talk to before I write JR Americas back and argue for a replacement. I'm not oiling my swash ball. That's a BS answer.

[360Wings]

Originally Posted by OverTemp

I just set the swash outside for 20 min in 42F weather and it completely locked up. Unacceptable. It's gotta be replaced. I have a local JR rep I'll talk to before I write JR Americas back and argue for a replacement. I'm not oiling my swash ball. That's a BS answer.

Yes, it does sound like your swash is much tighter, compared to what the rest of us have been getting it our kits..

All as I can say its worth gettings it replaced as this heli flys exceptionally well. Get the swash replaced . You will quickly forget about the swash issue once you start flying it..

[beenflying]

Originally Posted by OverTemp

I just set the swash outside for 20 min in 42F weather and it completely locked up. Unacceptable. It's gotta be replaced. I have a local JR rep I'll talk to before I write JR Americas back and argue for a replacement. I'm not oiling my swash ball. That's a BS answer.

Agree. JR quality control is slipping. Also make sure you don't crash. This is a very expensive heli to repair...

[Ah Clem]

I have lubricated the swashball with TriFlow on every machine I have had since about 1985.

The ball should always be lubed on every machine.

[OverTemp]

Well this is all very disappointing. I was between a TDR and the Forza. Went with Forza for initial cost and the JR quality I knew when I had my Vibe and when I lived in Korea amongst all the high caliber F3C dudes.

I showed my swash to a JR rep today. He was speechless. I had the Swash heated by the sun and the ball was so loose it rattled around. I let it cool to 47F and it locked up completely. JR dude didn't know what to say. It's just a terrible design. I'll give them one more chance, but if they can't get me a good product I'll have a Forza for sale cheap. The rest of the kit is good, but this is a huge oversight in materials science that tells me that the Japanese aren't caring as much any more. I didn't want "good enough", I wanted premier. I don't know, maybe my standards are too high and I should be done with all these toys and just fly my Diabolo and be happy.

Al Chem,
Putting triflow in there is a terrible idea. Happy it worked for you though.

[rdavis]

OverT... I say hold and give it a try after you have the corrected swash. I've had several TDR's and two of them had issues with the tail that Jan had to fix... so I'm not bashing, rather just saying no mfg is 100% all the time.

Once you fly it you will love the heli and if not and you want to sell to dump it I'll buy it.

Ray

[rodo1268]

I live in a very cold climate, and what he says is true even for the Forza 450.
The swash is very fluid at indoor temps, but once exposed to cold it damn near feels mis machined as it's so stiff and hard to move. I suspect it'll improve once it "breaks in" but I honestly have concerns in the sub temps.I suppose an argument could be made that it's a case of tolerances being too close, but the fact remains that this is is FAR to much resistance on the servos. I realized the problem after my cyclic started shaking like a dog sh@tting razor blades 60 seconds into the flight.
Throw that sucker in the freezer for a few minutes and you'll be able to smell what I'm stepping in here.
It's more than an annoyance for us Northern folks & needs to be taken into consideration.

[OverTemp]

At 90F it's so loose it has slop. Breaking in isn't the answer. It needs a total redesign, not a break-in. So glad I bought this at the beginning of winter.

[rodo1268]

I'm going to try and flush it and re lube it with tri-flow, But I'm not disagreeing with ya, it's bizzare how bound it gets, ESPECIALLY when you start with an ambient temp of 25F and get colder form there (altitude & wind chill)
NO BUENO!

[OverTemp]

No amount of lube can make up for thermal instability.

[rodo1268]

Well it certainly came with machinist oil on it, so getting rid of that is the 1st step.
Then I'll stick it back in the freeze and see if the massive desparity still exists.
Hey, it's certainly a problem and I'm not stating otherwise. I think anyone reading this couldnt possibly undertsand without one in hand, Sure, stuff gets cold and it doesnt move as freely as it would in the heat, but this aint that.

[Ah Clem]

"Al Chem,
Putting triflow in there is a terrible idea. Happy it worked for you though."

No, running any swashball dry is a terrible idea.

It is a bearing and needs to be kept lubricated and clean.

If it is a terrible idea, then none of the swashballs on any of my machines should be serviceable-some of them are over 10 years old now, some have hundreds of flights-all still with good swashballs.

[OverTemp]

I guess you lube your ball links too?

I know you are a Compass boy, which has metal ball in brass liner. Those can use lube... that's different.

[raptorwoody]

I believe what is being suggested here is it is alright to lube the swash ball with the delrin/plastic race that the swash ball pivots on, but is not alright to lube the large bearing on the bottom of the swash plate. I have the same problem with my swashplate. If I spin the swash ball in the race, after a bit it frees up and then after cooling down it tightens up. If you free it up too much when it is cold it will be sloppy when it warms up. I got mine to free up more by spinning the ball in the race in some transmission fluid. I then cleaned it up then I polished the swash ball. If it was not alright to lube links then nitro helicopters would be in really bad shape. But anyways sorry to the original poster of this thread.

[Ah Clem]

"I guess you lube your ball links too?"

Actually, back in the 1970's and 1980's we used to.

Schluter recommended it.

"I know you are a Compass boy, "

Yes, and proud of it, but I have helicopters from many brands here that I fly constantly (Compass, Align, AleeS,
Outrage, Mikado, TT, SAB, Hirobo, and others). I would never run a swashball dry, sir.


One thing that is true, is that different things work for different people.

[LaDon]

Well I realize we are on team jr here but getting on here and ranting about this won't solve it. Chris at Jr Americas is a great guy and probably would be very happy to help you and get it straightened out. Also he can feedback to Jr and tell them what is happening and maybe something will change. But as raptorwoody said if the products used couldn't handle oil then all the swashes on nitro helis would be junk. I would be willing to bet that by the time that little bit of oil made the swash junk the Heli will have been sold or gone by then. Not trying to be a smart a.. Here but just call Chris. he will help you