Stuff that wears out on a Pantera

[redgiki]

So I was looking my Pantera over very closely, hunting down the causes of a couple of a few flying irregularities this morning. I've burned two cases of fuel in the bird so far, and am on case #3 since April. I identified a number of parts that look like they really need to be replaced due to slop, "hogging out", Does this jive with your experience?

Note: I am a "fly hard and put away wet" kind of guy, so I haven't been very good about carefully cleaning all the parts after each flying day, but I do lubricate all the parts prior to flight with either tri-flow or spray silicon oil.

1. AUD0010, Tail Pitch Control Lever. The pins are VERY clearly wearing out due to the plastic-to-plastic nature of their connection to the pitch slider They have developed an actual ridge where they meet the plastic round slider. JBeech has an upgrade part to replace these with metal, and I think in this case they aren't just "3D Guide Pins"... they are pins for anybody who really flogs their machine hard.

2. AUD0014 Tail Slide Ring. As mentioned in #1, this is also wearing out, and the groove has worn wider into it from the pitch control lever pins. Might be better off replacing the whole assembly, AUD0009, because there's quite a bit of play between AUD0015 and the tail shaft.

3. AUD0022 Tail Rotor Push Rod Guides. The red balls have totally worn out on the inside where they guide the pushrod, I assume due to vibration and wear from the tail servo. The wire has hogged several of them out to the tune of being nearly 1/4" wide on the inside now, and the red plastic has turned into a kind of red waxy mush piled up in and around the red guide balls. Very icky, and obviously allowing the tail pushrod to flex around in the guides.

4. AUD3078, Elevator arm assembly bushings. My elevator arm assembly has substantial left/right play now, due to the bushings wearing down. I didn't buy the bearings for my first assembly of the bird; is it too late the swap the bushings for bearings? I think I CA'd 'em in there, I'm not certain I can replace them without replacing the frame entirely. I don't know that this side-to-side movement really affects the Pantera much in flight, but it probably causes some interactions with the elevator servo.

5. Clunk line. Replaced this once already because it split, and now my replacement (also stock line) is looking ready to split. Picking up some Hayes Clunk Line soon.

6. AUD1016-2 and AUD1017-2, canopy and windscreen. The sun at the field (outdoors, not in the car) and heat from my muffler have made an absolute wreck of my bleach-bottle canopy. It looks horrible now, all twisted up and getting worse day by day. I picked up a fiberglass T-Rex 700 canopy in white that I have planned to paint in a scheme similar to the bleach-bottle Pantera canopy, but I can say without reservation that the plastic the Pantera's canopy is made of is not nearly as robust against sitting in the sun at the field, or close proximity to the muffler, as the Raptor canopy is. Not even close; the Raptor held up to two seasons of this kind of treatment, and the Pantera hasn't even made it halfway through one.

7. AUD1520, tail boom supports. Now, my problem isn't with the tail boom support. It's the plastic ends. I even ran some thick CA around the ends, and in two cases of fuel, they've started to rattle like crazy. And the rattling has turned the plastic to mush that leaks out of the crack, and I just can't tighten them down anymore without deforming the tail boom supports. Need to swap these out with something that won't develop such a rattle. The kinds of ends that glue down, and where the support rod slides INTO the plastic end makes SO MUCH more sense now that I understand why most people do it that way.

8. Nylock nuts on blade grips. Apparently you simply can't re-use these at all after one use. They need to be scrapped every time you take your blades off. As I've frequently swapped blades and tried to re-use them, I've learned this because the blades won't stay tight in the grips for autos.

9. AUD0043 Tail blades. They wallow out on the tail bolts, and the hole keeps elongating toward the root of the blade. This is why I've been interested in CF tail blades, or maybe some blade that has a brass bushing at the base. This has also been the cause of some high-frequency vibration in the tail... cured by swapping out the old tail blades with new. They weren't beat-up or crashed, just flown a LOT.

10. AUD0017-3 Dampers. Apparently it's time for some new dampers... my grips are getting pretty sloppy in the "I push this one down, the other one goes up" department. If history is any guide, when I open up the head, they'll be pretty chewed up and ready for replacement. Every heli will need this maintenance, guaranteed.

11. Grips. AUD0046-2. Two cases in, these new grips have a bad case of the "wobblies": the bearings are clearly wearing into the inside of the grips. There's pretty profound grip flex up and down on the bench without it affecting the opposing grip, which is generally a pretty clear sign of play between the bearings and the spindle shaft, or the bearings and the grip. I'm going to bet "grip" here. I CA'd my bearings into the grip to fix this problem a case and a half of fuel ago, but the problem is back.

Some parts look surprisingly great, particularly given how badly I abuse my bird with high headspeeds and flogging it through maneuvers with bad collective management. The clutch and clutch liner all look brand-new with very little wear despite a half-dozen hot starts and numerous aborted autos. The bearings all feel GREAT and not notchy at all (with the exception of one tail bearing that went notchy within 10 flights), and my Pantera takes forever to spool down. With a generous application of silicon spray, the belt and cogged belt-related gears look brand-new. Main shaft bearing blocks have absolutely zero play that I can see; I did use the pro-tip to CA the outer races of the bearings into the blocks.

Putting together the cost I expect to spend after Case #3 of fuel:

PDR0079: $5.99
AUD0009: $19.99
AUD0022: $9.99
AUD3078: $11.99 (John really tried to convince me to buy these when I put in my order, so kudos he recognizes the issue over time.)
AUD1016-2: $38.99
AUD1017-2: $14.99
AUD1520: $16.99
AUD0043: $4.99
AUD0017-3: $11.99
AUD0046-2: $14.99

TOTAL: $150.90

This is a kit that is all-new parts. I did have a crash 3 tanks into gallon #1 on the bird due to a bad receiver, but swapped everything out that I had the least doubt about from my spare kit, so everything on it is new. My main concern is this: I can buy a totally new Pantera for just $50 more. Admittedly, it would come with the softer-durometer dampers and without the elevator bearings or 3D tail guide pins... but that's about it.

Pardon me for the flame-baitedness of this next question. What other model requires $150 worth of parts during regular service intervals to keep it flying well within 3 cases of fuel? Or am I doing something horribly wrong besides cleaning it off every week or so and spraying down all the moving parts with silicon oil before each flying day?

[The Dude II]

#1 - 3D guide pins

#2 - see my trick for hardening with CA

#3 - after 7 years in the heli hobby - still have yet to see a real solution to this one. currently I grease the push-rod at the red balls

#4 -bearings

#5 - most "supplied fuel lines" are junk - why we buy the good stuff

#6 - ??? Not sure there - I air-brush & clear mine - never an issue till I put next to the heater in the van during the winter - then I've melted a windscreen - & obviously turning dirt

#7 - upgraded along time ago to CF with CNC machined ends - lighter & stronger - rarely break in a crash

#8 - WHAT????!!!! NEVER seen this!!! Seriously.


#9 - reason why I think loosy-goosy flipp-floppy blades in a grip is a BAD idea - leads to premature wear and play. Again - I've only flown carbon for years now and my blades ALWAYS stand stiff. Never wear out a grip, bolt or blade.

#10 - 4 cases - new dampers, re-grease the head and inspect the entire ship.

#11 - again see my video series - you have to do it straight out of the box.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AchieverII



Now for the flame part - it a $150 (or say correctly priced $230) kit!

The machine is truly a beginners/sport machine out of the box -cause as you've noticed - things wear pretty quickly once you start to pound on it.

Been around a few other equivalently priced kits - they too have there issues.

I've taken the extra steps on my birds and essentially built them to a "$450" kit -
metal swash
metal 1-piece yoke
metal grips (though Pantera #3 is using the stock grips - and they're perfect after ~ 1 case of abuse)
CF Boom
CF Boom Supports
CF Tail Push rod (4mm) - wears little less than stock metal


My general maintenance issues are worn balls & ball-links ends, red balls, dampers and re-greasing - when not crashing!!!


Now I've seen Raptors & Trexes that seeming last for years in my buddy's hands - of coarse he buys 1 case of fuel for every 10 I buy.

[forvols]

Just finishing up Gallon #8 and will be starting on gallon #9 this weekend. I've examined the varios items you listed and here is my status with regard to the same parts.

#1 Tail pitch control lever - mine looks like a NIB lever, no obvious signs of wear on it. My flying does not include much in the way of 3D or for that matter any substantial number of Piro's. Most of my rudder usage comes from simply trying to keep the tail behind the nose. I would think that the type of flying has a lot to do with the speed at which you notice subtatial wear. I also think that if you experience substantial wear on the lever, you should expect to see corresponding wear on the slider (item #2 on your list). I'd expect to replace both items and would use the 3D version (metal studs) to provide a longer lasting, hopefully less frequent maintenance tail.

#2 Tail slide ring - addressed in thoughts from item #1. After swapping to the 3D Tail pitch control lever, I could see where hot piro's could still result in the slider ring getting worn (but no so much on the metal control lever).

#3 Tail rotor pushrod guids - yes, mine no longer look brand new. There is obvious wear, but nearly to the extent that you have mentioned. Again, I suspect that the type of flying (piro's and the severity of the piro's) would have a huge factor in the amount of wear noticed. For what it's worth, the Raptors have the same issue with their method of control rod support, and my JR Venture 30 had the same ball type guides with about the same result. I think the carbon fiber control rod is the ultimate answer for doing away with this maintenance item.

#4 Elevator bushing - My 1st Pantera used the plastic bushings. I pretty much totaled it after 8 flights so I can't claim any experience with regard to wear on this item. I know that Rayk had posted that his Pantera had been flying for over a year with the bushing and was still in good shape. I can see where the type of flying field could have a big impact here. Flying off of grass vs say sand/clay makes a big difference on the amount of grit that the bushings (or bearings) would be subjected to. My current Pantera has the bearings, and for what it's worth, there was side to side play in the elevator control arm from day 1. It's not gotten any worse with useage and as far as I know is not affecting flight performance. It does allow a bit of "sloppy" feel as the front of the swash is allowed a minimal amount of movement due to this lateral "freedom". I've considered using a small washer as a shim/spacer on my next build to eliminate the lateral play.

#5 Clunk line - beaten to death already. I replace with the same fuel tubing I use to supply fuel to the carb. It's not as flexible as what is included in the kit, but it's plenty flexible enough to not cause problems.

#6 Canpy and windscreen - these items represent 1/3 of the maintenance cost you listed. My canopy is not showing any signs of melting or deformation due to muffler heat or just sitting in the sun. I do try to keep my models in the shade when possible, and they are kept in the house when not at the flying field. Rather than spend the $53.98 for a stock P50 canopy, I think the new version of the Trex 700 Fiberglass (painted or gel coated white) for $28.99 may be a better and more practical solution. I doubt it will withstand the abuse of the stock milk jug canopy, but it would not be as prone to deform due to heat.

#7 Tail boom ends - I've not had the problem you have experienced. I did have some vibrations that were causing the tail booms to vibrate like crazy in flight (no rattle though). I resolved that vibration by dial indicating and re-doing the tail rotor grip bearing stack. I've not had any vibration problems since, nor is there any sign of the supports being loose at the ends. I did realize on my 1st Pantera, that failure to really tighten these supports down at the frame invited vibration in the supports, so on Pantera #2 I made sure they were tight (not just pretty snug) on the 1st flight and do check them with regularity, but they have not required tightening yet. If this is an ongoing problem for you, then I like Gus's suggestion of going CF with the supports. Should be a permenant end to that particular issue for you. Also, if I remember correctly, JB sells a boom support cross brace that fits between the two booms to reduce the potential for vibration. This item may be worthwhile - I've seen other models utilize a similar cross brace for the same reason.

#8 Nylock nuts - I agree with Gus - never heard of just being able to use em once. I have had times where I cross threaded one and it basically wound up pushing the nylon material out of the metal nut. That obviously negates the reusability of the nut, but when properly tightened, I've not had a problem with the nylock nuts in the Pantera kit or any other nylock.

#9 Tail blades - Pantera #1 did not have this issue. Pantera #2 did. This is because JB changed the bolt used to secure the blades in the grip. The newer bolts have a longer shoulder that prevents the nut from tightening up any further than where it hits the shoulder. The older bolt has a shallower shoulder (more of the bolt was threaded) which allowed the nut to be tightened to the point of jeapordizing the integrity of the grips. From a manufacturing liability point of view - better to make sure that the owner doesn't sling a blade due to over tightening than to give them the ability to over stress the grips. You can argue either side of this coin for as long as you want to play "who's on first", but at the end of the day it's a decision that was made and agree with it or don't, there was a reason behind it. If the amout of slop is to the point of causing an issue, then replace not just the blades, but find some bolts that will allow you to tighten the nut on down. Just remember that the JB changed the bolt for a reason and proceed at your own risk I guess. My blades are loosey goosey, but I don't see any left/right slop in them yet. I will continue to keep an eye on them because it makes sense that if they are too loose then lateral slop could develope. Again, I'd think that the type of environment your field is may have a lot to do with how quickly that lateral slop can develope. idk.

#10 Dampers - I have no experience to share on this one. I've had blade tracking issues on Pantera #2 until relatively recently and I finally resolved it by replacing everything in the head (I built a new head and installed). I replaced the dampers along with all the other dishwater. I yield to Gus's experience and yet again, suspect that how you fly will play a big part in how often the dampers need replacing.

#11 - main blade grips/bearings - Pantera #1 had the wobble that you speak of. Although it didn't seem to be causing me any in flight issues, I always worried about how much droop the blades had and the amount of "articulation" that they had. Pantera #2 (both heads) were done with the thick CA method and neither head had any wobble/loosness in the grip to bearing area. I think Gus mentioned that doing this mod after the wobble starts is pointless and that the mod needs to be done up front rather than as a repair later. My grips are still nice and snug with no noticable wobble/slop between brg and grip.

Out of curiosity, do you fly from a sandy environment? Asphalt where there is a lot of dust/debris? or primarily grass? I fly primarily from a thick grass environment and don't usually have much in the way of "grit" that collects in the nitro residue on the heli. If you do have a lot of grit that can be trapped by the exhaust residue, you are most likely getting a lot of abrasive action going in places where you want none, so your maintenance schedule will differ considerably from mine. Also, some of the items you're concerned about have resolutions that should result is a less frequent maintenance schedule. The carbon fiber tail control rod for instance will elliminate the rod guid bearings completely - forever! A Rex 700 fiberglass ( or other glass canopy) should end your heat related canopy issues once and for all. Just don't bang it in the ground!

I've got approx 5 cases of fuel through my OS 50 hyper and have not yet had to replace bearings. I assume that means that I just haven't been pushing it hard enough? I see so many posts where folks are replacing them every case or so.

I hope you're enjoying flying the Pantera as much as I am! The Raptors have their maintenance buggers too! On the bright side of things... I think there are a ton of people out there wishing they could just fly 4 cases of fuel without having a major crash requiring complete replacement of all the maintenance items plus some!! Grats!

[dharwood]

I think there are a ton of people out there wishing they could just fly 4 cases of fuel without having a major crash requiring complete replacement of the maintenance items!! Grats!

I am looking forward to the day I can fly a tank without getting 4 cases of the shakes

Dale

[forvols]

Originally Posted by dharwood

I am looking forward to the day I can fly a tank without getting 4 cases of the shakes

Dale

[ShineyObject]

I've got approx 5 cases of fuel through my OS 50 hyper and have not yet had to replace bearings. I assume that means that I just haven't been pushing it hard enough? I see so many posts where folks are replacing them every case or so.
Don't get me started!

[The Dude II]

Out of curiosity, do you fly from a sandy environment?

Excellent point!!!

There was a time when I LOVED to come down inverted within inches of the runway and just stir dust till you couldn't see - never really seen a heli with more grim & dirt that wasn't being used as a tiller.

When the maintenance interval went to every day - I stopped that crap!

Now, I fly off only grass and won't even hover above the clay/sand runway - moving passes only.

A dirty Pantera is ~ 478 parts just wearing way too fast! (yeah - I counted them this AM - the TV was broken and the coffee pot was full!)

[F6Hawk]

WTH???? You mean you're not supposed to crash at least once per every two tanks of nitro????

[jbeech]

That's really close Gus, but it's 480 parts. Put on another pot of coffee pal.

The V2 tail seems to cause less grief with wear, the 3D guide pins remain an item recommended for some pilots. Whomever mentioned the design of the V2 tail rotor grips, you're spot on as to why. FWIW, a shim of electrical tape, a 'tape-washer' can be the solutiuon for what some don't like, floppy tail blades in their grips . . . but I maintain floppy isn't a real issue - not compared to too tight because under load, e.g. more than 10k RPM, they're NOT floppy. An added benefit is unlike a T-Rex 600 where dragging the tail blades during an extended auto may result in new tail drive gears, with a Pantera 50 it merely results in grass stains on the blade tips - pick your poison, or in other word, be careful what you wish for.

Yes, you can add the elevator link bearings AUD3078 after the fact, e.g. now that the bushings are worn - no problem. It'll just be a comparative pain in the rear versus doing it while you are building because you have to split the side frames to do it properly, e.g. seat them square and fully. Sad to say, we still have a substantial number of customer who crash and quit helicopters altogether so I continue to maintain it doesn't make sense for us to drive up the base cost of the kit because it raises the cost for everybody while only those who stick with helis will need it.

FWIW, I have stocked us some CF boom steadies (yes, Gus, it's expressly because of you and your never ending quest for reduced weight). They are part number PDR1520 and they're $14.99.

Canopy issues are likely due to your home environment of UT, e.g. higher altitude has more UV exposire (all plastic suffer fomr it, as due paints, etc.) and it's also due to your having far more sunny days than the rest of us - boo hoo. Overall, however, it's not a widespread problem. Yes, I feel we're getting screwed on canopy pricing but for now, it is what it is because of the relatively low volumes we deal with vbecasue we're noty a high volume company like the Chinese helis - sorry, but I'm doing the best I can to make the thing more popular, believe me! Also, as many know, I am working on a prepainted FRP canopy solution, as an accessory item, as well. News as it develops.

Pushrod guide wear - it happens and I have no permanent solution. Look folks, if you fly a full scale Jet Ranger there are routine maintenance issues as well. Helicopters are just more critical in this respect than an aircraft. Moreover, how and where you fly affects things (as Gus mentions, creating that cloud of dust for the fun of it looses it's appeal as maintenance intervals decrease). As for a CF pushrod - that may cause other issues like accelerated servo wear. Not enough data so for now I am holding off offring this as an accessory or upgrade.

Finally, I still think the best course with respect to this issue if regular maintenance. With as many parts as you list I believe you've been waiting too long. Also, for example, new main rotor blade grips only cost you $14.99 (for the pair), which is a screaming deal by any measure. Also, because I am not eager to get into an aluminum grip due to the host of other issues it brings vis-a-vis bending and the resulting calls for help because it goes undetected . . . and not by experienced pilots like Gus, but by intermediate and sportsmen pilots who just are not as experienced and thus miss the tweaked girp and wonder why in Hell their model is vibrating or not tracking like it did before the crash - that I am undecided on offering them at all.

Regards,

[JohnDoe.]

This is why the Pantera is the only Nitro I will own JB is so hands on with us. But maybe JB could make us a maintenance kit with the parts that are needed to service our birds.

[jbeech]

Just as with crash kits (something else folks have inquired about) the problem is including parts, which aren't yet in need of service because the service intervals don't line up nicely. Hence, you end up paying for things, far before they're need or which, may break in a crash before needing replacement due to wear. Sorry but I don't have a pat answer to this issue and the best course is to replace on condition, e.g. as needed. There is no solution other than vigilance.

[F6Hawk]

Same with the real helis. I refuse to buy built-up kits of parts because you end up wasting money on parts that don't need replacing. Just don't make no sense...

[redgiki]

Good replies, all. Thanks for the tips and outlook. Yes, I fly from the sandy and salty shores of the Great Salt Lake quite frequently. I bet that salt + sand + dirt + oil results in far more degradation to plastic parts than dirt + oil alone.

Salt Lake City gets around 125 "clear" days per year. Most of them land in the "dry season", May through October, which coincidentally is also the flying season around here So getting more sunshine is a definite culprit in the canopy debacle. I store my helicopters out in the barn, and temperatures in there can get to around 110F pretty regularly if it's closed up. I could store them indoors, but I have four children and a 125-lb dog running around the house... a little heat is much safer than that risk!

The solution to the canopy issue seems obvious: I should steer clear of plastic canopies. Fiberglass all the way for me. I don't crash much, so crash-survivability is not much of an issue...

I'm saddened by the huge number of flyers who try out helis and never return to the hobby. Those who do it right, like my friend Jeff who just started flying helis this summer, tend to stick with it. Doing it "right" means joining a local club, getting experienced help for setup and flying tips, flying with a RotoPod or training gear when learning to hover, and mastering hovering and forward/backward flight in all orientations, including inverted, before trying to show off your "mad 3D skillz". Helis aren't harder to fly, in my opinion, but they do require a lot more discipline and maintenance than most airplanes.

As for me, I have enough spare parts inventory to replace all my maintenance items by this weekend (except new dampers), and then I'll be putting another order in to JB to pick up the stuff I replaced. I think I need to start carrying some Simple Green and Tri-Flow with me in the car so that I can carefully clean & de-grease everything after each flying session, and then make sure to oil all the moving parts at the start of each flying session. I'm certain the corrosive effects of salt, a few unexpected rainstorms in Moab, and frequent flying in extreme heat (100F+) take their toll, but I'd love to see if I can mitigate it with a more diligent cleaning schedule.

And JB? Thanks for carrying some of these upgrade parts for those of us resolving specific issues with our birds for the way we fly. I appreciate that kind of responsiveness. You can be certain some of those parts will be on my next order!

[F6Hawk]

Just a thought, but you could always hang your heli(s) from some heavy monafilament in a corner of the room... away from the kid(s) n dog(s), plus show off your modeling skillz to your friends who visit.

[redgiki]

Speaking of stuff that wears out, today my tail pushrod wore through enough that it cracked right at the wear point. VERY hard pirouetting auto from around 30 feet. Damage looks typical but lighter than I would have expected: skids, 1 blade, spindle shaft, probably the main shaft. But the paddles & flybar look perfect and the boom is untouched. The only reason the blade even cracked is because I busted the main gear landing so hard, and the heli tipped over as it spooled down.

Right there the pushrod goes between the two boom supports, my pushrod in flight was apparently whacking the nylock nut holding the bolt that holds the boom support to the plastic end. It wore down around 1/4 of the rod, then in-flight stresses apparently snapped it right there.

Symptom: I took off, hovered it for a moment, did a quick pirouette, everything looked OK. Took it up about 20 more feet, then found myself having to hold extreme left rudder to keep the bird from pirouetting. Took it out & away from 5 spectators who had crowded a bit too close to the pad, then it started pirouetting uncontrollably as I hit throttle hold and tried to ignore the piro & set it down.

Cause: Allowed the red guide balls to wallow out too much by the beginning of case #3 of fuel. This is what allowed that play to cause the tail pushrod to rattle against the nylock nut under the horizontal stabilizer. It's a hard-to-see area unless you flip the heli upside-down.

Solution: Carbon-fiber pushrod without guides that will wallow out, or more-frequent inspection and replacement of red guide balls.

So now I get some wrenching time. Well, it was time anyway...

[forvols]

Yeah, I noticed a little rattle the last flight and I found that my rod support that is located close to where the boom supports attach at the rear was actually vibrating against the boom support. I'll secure the rod support away from the boom support and guess I'll go ahead and replace the red balls. I doubt I could do as good a job of saving my heli as you apparently did. Good job! Sorry to hear of the crash, but hope you're not down long

[ed211]

swashplate is fragile. need to make one in metal, broke the antirotation pin once and then the ball joint on the elevator came out in flight. links are junk. replaced with align ones. frame where the rear landing gear mounts is very thin, broke it in a hard forced auto. dont get me started on the fuel tank stuff

[crash.n.dash05]

lol must of been a hella auto wait till i can post my video of my worst to date auto my frame set has been in 5 crashes hard ones... and i have yet to break the gear mount... the skids themself... ... or rotation pin... however hunter did break his rotation pin on his... but that hurts 1000 times worse when you slam it into asphalt vs. dirt..... however any part after a major crash is supect to fail... possible like the elevator ball joint?.... which one on the swash or on the bellcrank.. Im not bad mouthing you just trying to get a grasp on your slightly negitive feelings towards the bird.....

[redgiki]

Originally Posted by crash.n.dash05

lol must of been a hella auto...

Yeah, I'll see if I can get a copy of the video. Right after spool-up, in it went.

...but that hurts 1000 times worse when you slam it into asphalt vs. dirt.

100% agreed. That's why I much prefer to fly over dirt or grass than asphalt! I've chicken-danced on asphalt before, and I'm certain that repair (almost a total loss) was much worse than it would have been on dirt!

Im not bad mouthing you just trying to get a grasp on your slightly negitive feelings towards the bird.....

I'm only negative about the things that wear out, not due to crashes, but simply due to use. Gus has been great pointing out a few extra items, and the truth is, my old Raptor probably got crashed & repaired too often for me to notice the maintenance items. I'm not certain any helicopter requires less maintenance. I'd have to carefully follow a maintenance schedule and fly two similar but differently-branded birds to have a hope of coming up with an accurate comparison of maintenance costs.

[ed211]

anytime you screw metal into hard plastic your asking for trouble. i have never had a swashplate fail on any of my centurys or even my gohbees which also have a plastic swash and Ive crashed them just as hard and as much. just seems to me the plastic on the panteras are made of a more fragile plastic or one that is not as resilient. I compared my pantera frame where it broke with the 30 sized gohbee frame. the gohbee in the same area has twice the amount of material , the panteras is not more then 1/4 in thick there. needs to be changed imo.