Got good flyin blade 230s not sure what to get next ?

[jasonak]

I have a trex 450 with FBL and a beast x that im hovering around with training gear. A MCPX thats great to buzz around and I had a 230s that I was just getting to where i was doing forward reverse flips and rolls with. I not sure I really want to get into 3D ,,maybe learn to do tic tocs But not sure what to copter to get next. My 230s got away from me... i was up doing flips got disoriented and it drifted away. So im wanting to get another copter, Im looking at blade 500x thinking size easier to see and more stable,,,but Ive been looking at everything else as well 250cfx like the idea of safe and the diffrent modes it has. Would like something bind and fly dont want to build anything from ground up..230 was great as I could fly it all the time small ball field right across street from house but it also was a intimidating as my 450 which is not as stable as the 230 SO...
get another 230 or 270 360cfx 300cfx 500x ???
thanks

[Indokast]

Where did the 230s go??

From what I read here.. I, being conservative, would grab a 250cfx. It would have more power than the 230, but still a simple design with the safe features and bailout you want. CF frame would crash better too. I would believe it would handle more wind vs a 230s also. Would also be good for the small ball field.

The 270 and 360 are powerful but nice from what I see but may not be ideal yet if the 450 is still on training wheels. 300cfx has old ar7200bx but it is nice enough.

When you get good at that 450 I would then consider a 500 class after that but you will want to get into building and maintenance of a bird at that size.. 500s are no joke. They can kill people.

230s, 250cfx, 270cfx would all be good choices. Or a 300cfx but they come with ar7200bx unless you swap fbl units for one with bailout and self level. My 2 cents.

[Wargamer]

I'm wondering about your 450. Given that you are buzzing around your mcpx and were flipping and rolling the 230s, you should have no issues with the 450. Have you tried it with the training gear off? The gear is going to make it fly like a beached whale; only purpose of the gear is to get to where you can hover. Since you can do much more than hover, you should absolutely dump the gear. If the 450 still feels less stable than the 230 and mcpx, then there is something wrong with the set-up that should be readily fixable.

You also mentioned that you like SAFE. Since you are already flying, the stability mode features of SAFE are not something you would be using yourself, but they might be important if you want friends/spouse/kids to be able to fly. The rescue feature is the other side of SAFE. It's a very personal thing; if you're someone who feels much more comfortable knowing you have a panic button, then go for it.

If you decide you want to go SAFE rather than trying to get the 450 tuned up, Indo had a good evaluation of the options.

[BrokeDad]

...

[heinz9]

The 250cfx is a wonderful bird. Flys great and is little more stable in the air than the 230s probably due to it being a little bit bigger. Plenty of power too. I tried buying a used 2 bladed 360 on ebay for the last few weeks. My experience is that they all get snatched up at around $300-$330 plus shipping. I quit bidding at $300 plus the shipping cost. Too much IMO for a used blade heli although I would really have liked one. The trio for me is too pricey at $600. Too much with maintanence and additional repair costs. I wanted the Oxy4 but could no longer wait. Not with weather like we are having in Atlanta this year. Beside, the release date was pushed back and there is a chance it could be pushed back again. So, I purchased an Align 470 lm and waiting for delivery. Everyone on HF who owns one says positive things about it. It'll be interesting flying a different brand for a change too.

[learnedthehardway]

Don't think parts support is there for the larger Blade helis anymore. They still have quite a few but certain key parts are not in stock and probably never will be again so I would avoid them personally.

If you can do flips then you no longer need stability so you should be able to fly the 450 without training gear like Wargamer mentioned. He's also correct saying there must me something wrong with the 450's setup if the 230 felt more stable but 90% chance that's because the training gear are hindering it.

You saying the 230 got away from you tells me you have skipped the most important part of rc heli flying, getting familiar with throttle hold. SAFE/bailout will do nothing for you if you don't hit the switch and TH probably would have been a better choice in that situation anyway since it was too far to see what orientation it was in.

Might want to fly the mcpx till you can manhandle it around, end the majority of your flights by landing on the skids and are good at hitting TH when things go wrong.

Can keep hovering the 450 while you practice with the mcpx to get more comfortable with the size and the way it behaves but first it would be wise to do some reading on how to setup the mechanics and program/adjust its beastx unit. Plenty of YouTube videos on both subjects. Also educate yourself on how to tame it with dual rates and adjusting headspeed with your tx. It all seems overwhelming at first but is actually quite simple once you get the gist of it.

450 is a cp helicopter just like the mcpx it's just bigger so if you can fly one you can fly the other.

[Wargamer]

Originally Posted by heinz9

I tried buying a used 2 bladed 360 on ebay for the last few weeks. My experience is that they all get snatched up at around $300-$330 plus shipping. ... Too much IMO for a used blade heli although I would really have liked one. ... I purchased an Align 470 l'm and waiting for delivery. Everyone on HF who owns one says positive things about it. It'll be interesting flying a different brand for a change too.

There really is a premium that you pay for BNF these days, given the price of a new 470. (Or even compared to something like a new X3 with all budget components.)

I think a lot of guys overestimate how much work is involved in a good, modern kit. The Oxy took me the better part of one Saturday. That's it. And I had no idea what I was doing, so that was going slow. Then it took me a few hours over a couple of evenings to make sure the head and FBL set-up were ok. Again, that was the first time doing it. I wasn't sure whether I would enjoy the experience, but I did as it turned out. Building gives you a much deeper understanding of what is going on with your heli, which also makes you a better pilot in the long run.

Not suggesting there's anything wrong with folks who really hate building. That's a totally personal thing. But for folks who are thinking that building means weeks of work, it shouldn't.

[learnedthehardway]

Originally Posted by Wargamer

There really is a premium that you pay for BNF these days, given the price of a new 470. (Or even compared to something like a new X3 with all budget components.)

I think a lot of guys overestimate how much work is involved in a good, modern kit. The Oxy took me the better part of one Saturday. That's it. And I had no idea what I was doing, so that was going slow. Then it took me a few hours over a couple of evenings to make sure the head and FBL set-up were ok. Again, that was the first time doing it. I wasn't sure whether I would enjoy the experience, but I did as it turned out. Building gives you a much deeper understanding of what is going on with your heli, which also makes you a better pilot in the long run.

Not suggesting there's anything wrong with folks who really hate building. That's a totally personal thing. But for folks who are thinking that building means weeks of work, it shouldn't.

Very good point and bnf only lasts till the first crash, then you have to rebuild the mechanics and redo swash level, pitch/tracking and cyclic servo endpoints in the fbl controller and most likely have to redo the tail servo setup as well.

With a kit you already did all of that during the build and have a manual to fall back on if you forgot some stuff. Bnf helis don't come with assembly manuals so you're left up shit creek without a paddle. They have a diagram in the back of the manual but no guidance/tips and it's the little details that make all the difference on whether it's going to run perfectly smooth and function properly after the rebuild.

Kit helis also use higher quality parts that tend to withstand crashes and the test of time much better than a bnf Blade plus most are easier to work on.

[jasonak]

Hi
Thank you to everyone for the replys very much appreciated. The 230 is off in the woods somewhere,I stumbled while running towards it lost track of the speck and never saw it again
Building copter is not beyond me I built couple trexs 15 years ago,,back then I had about 1200 in my copters and was afraid of crashing them all I ever did was walk behind them in the yard and hover. So I stayed away from copters wnt back to planks,,,bought a mcpx which flys awesome and can go full throttle into the ground and barley gets hurt. So I got the 230 which is also tuff and very stable...I never figured out bailout mode,,at least it didnt seem to work for me...but i liked being able to go to stunt mode and then when i got nervous id go back in to stability. But the main thing is i flew it every chance i got. my 450 took me forever to figure out how to do the beastx and setup..i bought it used.
I do forward flight etc and figure 8 nothing fancy still have the training gear on as it lands hard..im sure its not setup right...gotta run time for work finish this later

[learnedthehardway]

If the training gear is causing any vibrations or throwing off cog then it will certainly do more harm than good.

No need to rush anything though. Keep practicing with the little guy while you make sure everything is good on the 450 before flying it without the training gear.

If you can find a 180 in the classifieds that already has metal servo gears or servo savers it makes for a great step in between the mcpx and 450. Less intimidating but behaves more like a 450 than helis with a tail motor and will also give you some experience with tail mechanics.

I struggled with it a little at first but it taught me a lot. Gave me a feel for what's loose, tight and too tight and how to get things just so and keep them there. Made transitioning to a 450 easy, just had to get comfortable with the size.

Sounds like you have building experience already but still might be beneficial in easing you into the size and power of your 450.

Plus it uses the same throttle curves, pitch curves and tx settings as a bigger heli since d/r isn't used to prevent tail blowouts like it is on direct drive helis.

[canbarelyhover]

Originally Posted by jasonak

Hi
Thank you to everyone for the replys very much appreciated. The 230 is off in the woods somewhere,I stumbled while running towards it lost track of the speck and never saw it again
Building copter is not beyond me I built couple trexs 15 years ago,,back then I had about 1200 in my copters and was afraid of crashing them all I ever did was walk behind them in the yard and hover. So I stayed away from copters wnt back to planks,,,bought a mcpx which flys awesome and can go full throttle into the ground and barley gets hurt. So I got the 230 which is also tuff and very stable...I never figured out bailout mode,,at least it didnt seem to work for me...but i liked being able to go to stunt mode and then when i got nervous id go back in to stability. But the main thing is i flew it every chance i got. my 450 took me forever to figure out how to do the beastx and setup..i bought it used.
I do forward flight etc and figure 8 nothing fancy still have the training gear on as it lands hard..im sure its not setup right...gotta run time for work finish this later

Whenever you run across a heli you feel comfortable/fearless with and can progress with, that's gold. If that was the 230s for you, I'd say get another 230s!

[Imzzaudae]

I bit the bullet a couple of years ago. Went from Micro - 450 up to 550 - 600 size Nitro helicopter.

Now It's. Drive 20 min to the club field, Insurance and club memberships Cutting club grass, a bunch of rules and more dumb rules. Cost's me $300.00 a year before I turn a blade. Believe me sometimes a 380X works out much better than a 600.

When you just want to enjoy small field flying a 380 - 450 can sure be a perfect size helicopter to have around as it's not over size for school yard or park flying.

I found that anything bigger than 450 seems to draw unwanted attention from the crabby old fart park patrol even the police stopped buy to ask if I had a permit to fly on public property . Now if I can only get rid of the retard that thinks his Rottweiler chasing my helicopter is funny.

I can stand on the 50 yard line of the local football field and fly MCPX BL around the end zone posts. Yes I can see a 450 a little better and yes the 600 is a lot easier to see. But is it worth all the trouble.

Quite honestly, I'd just as soon walk across the street in the evening 450X in one hand a transmitter in the other and a couple Lipo in my pocket rather than loading big helicopter in the car and driving to the club and putting up with all the BS that in-tales.

Larger helicopter are more stable than small helicopters!

To this I say BS. 550e, 450X and MCPX BL pretty much feel and fly the same. Just more noise and pucker factor with 450 double that statement for 550 600. If not learn how to use DR and Expo.

I'm not saying don't get a big helicopter. They are nice, and they have there place. But with them comes greater liability and yes responsibility to say nothing of the cost involved.

Just my .02

[jasonak]

thank you again for everyones input
Ive been talking with the seller on this copter.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...hlight=300+CFX

Im not oppossed to building but isnt it allot more money to build a kit copter ?

Im going to check out the 450 but I dont know any heli fliers and as far as i know form the hours and hours of reading ive done,,I have my 450 setup right,,but im just going buy what ive read from forums..but it does seem to go down very hard,,it flattens the training gear at first when i set it down.

[Imzzaudae]

On your 450. Reverse pitch is pushing the helicopter down.

Try Normal mode Throttle curve 0 40 80 80 80
Normal mode pitch curve 40 40 65 75 100

This will stop it pushing down and give you a nicer collective feel.

DR 65 Expo 30 Aileron and Elevator.
Rudder 100 DR no expo.

Will help a lot

[Wargamer]

Lots of good advice from Ron, as always. Once you've adjusted your pitch and throttle curves, when landing, try to get it into a hover at 4-6 feet, and then just reduce the pitch a touch more. That should get it into a steady descent. You don't need to plant it on the ground - it will practically land itself. You just need to fly the disk a bit to keep it level.

On the 300cfx, as Indo pointed out, that one doesn't come with self level or rescue. Just something to keep in mind.

On BNF vs. build, a new Trex 470LP with everything will set you back $370. I personally wouldn't spend $300 on a used BNF, but that's me. If you're thinking seriously about the 300cfx, you might want to stop in that forum and ask folks who own one what they like most and least about it.

[jasonak]

Theres been a ton of good info from everyone,,im not sure if im more unsure what to get now lol but seriously thank you to everyone for the advice and input its good to here from so many different people and get all the different opinions. Im sure im not getting a bigger copter thats one thing ive ruled out from everyone's advice.

I just did the changed my settings on my trex to the above..and it wouldnt get off the ground.

I changed the the DR back to 100 percent and it flew fine,,not sure if I could tell a difference but its been last summer since I flew it.

charging batts and going to put back to old settings see if i can tell difference

old settings were 100 dr 0 expo except i had 10 percent on ail and TH curves were all 0 25 50 75 100
pitch was same

[thepiper92]

Honestly, I learnt nothing until going to a 450 size. My 450x was terrible with servos stripping (and breaking wires jamming better servos into it), the tail exploding after replacing all the parts (guy at lhs told me about only using one type of tail blade, other makes wouldn't work...), and in general a fragile heli. Then the X3 fixed all my issues. It was from then on I have been progressing, albeit slowly with winter that rears its ugly head every year, for whatever reason.

[jasonak]

Whats a X3?

[thepiper92]

Originally Posted by jasonak

Whats a X3?

Gaui X3

[peteski]

Sounds to me like you should simply get another 230S and continue learning to fly - especially without the self-levelling. Then your 450 should be easier to fly than the smaller 230 and definitely no need for training gear at that point.