Bell 430 Turbine | Build

[Keyrigger]

The largest blades that I have dealt with in the past are 600mm scale blades and normal 700mm blades for two blade systems. I have had the experience of heavier blades creating more torque on my 500 and that was at the original lower head speed I wanted to run. I have now got a very narrow blades on it (Spin Blades) and I am waiting for good weather to take it out and test fly it. I believe that I can lower the speed to a more sedate level (running 1530rpm right now) with the much lighter blades and turn them around 1375 to 1400rpm and get the performance I was getting last year.

I would look at keeping your blades as narrow as suggested for the best appearance and to create the least amount of torque. Spin Blades have a set at 1050mm that are 68mm wide, just a small amount larger than the Vario blades. Take into account the head you are using as the bolt hole setup will dictate what you can and cannot use. It seems the way they have set things up, if you want right hand rotation at the 920 to 1050mm lengths, you choose black blades. If you want left, you choose the grey blades. Who knew? Those are all single hole 4-5mm pivot hole blades.

I don't have a clue about "M" blades and I am not sure what MAAC's stance on metal blades is. Certainly Satsuma has a lot more experience with larger scale helicopters than I do so I hope you will get the info you need to choose the setup you want and need. Take care.

Don

[rdavis]

Many thanks Ian... I was thinking it sounded to wide. I love that you drew it out on wall paper, very funny! Oh, and you are correct, the bell is left hand.

[rdavis]

Hi Don... Many thanks for the info and insight. I do believe Ian is correct with his 75mm width, which will also look very scale. I'm going with the m-blades because they are metal and seem to get good reviews with all who have used them on large scale heli's.

Ray

[satsuma]

Yes, the M blades fly exceedingly well, the OTHER bonus with turbine helicopters is the heat wont damage them unlike carbon or glass, which CAN show delamination issues from being in the jet efflux particularly while slowly spooling up, or not being placed out of the line of the exhaust while the turbine spools up enough to engage the clutch, doesn't take too many times of that to badly damage the glass blades, I have seen gelcoat damage and warping due to those reasons lol.

[rdavis]

Ian... Many thanks for the further explanation. To be honest, I didn't think about that initially but was more thinking metal because of the weight of the heli, but now that you shed a bit of light it surely makes sense.

Ok Gents...

The Engine Air Inlet Side Vents were next on the list.

So this is what I did: I drew out the side vents in Google Draw, a free program from Google which is super easy to use and has tons of great features to help align, square, duplicate and place objects perpendicular. When I drew up the ovals I put them in a square so I could use the top, bottom and back lines (for left and right side of the heli) as a reference points. Because the software lets you square and perpendicular objects it was super helpful.

After going back and forth for hours I came up with what I feel is the perfect size, reference points, and final placement. I printed the vents on sticky paper, applied them to the fuselage, re-measured and put a level on them to ensure the top line was perpendicular to a flat surface. I'm posting one pic of a reference photo from the Bell 430 Manual but I went through tons of them to come up with the size and find reference points.

As to the placement the top vent is roughly halfway down the Engine Air Inlet, which is also slightly below the turbine exhaust lower parting line, and roughly the oval size plus half again the distance from the rear facing parting line to the back edge of the oval.

When you look at the pics the placement may look slightly tilted because of the rounded surface,different materials I'm using to build, and the angles and lighting I took the pics in, however they are perfectly symmetrical from one side of the heli to the other and the placement is spot on the same left to right. That said, the fuselage is very slightly off from one side to the other but I doubt its noticeable when the heli is finished.

I did not cut today as I like to sit on cutting overnight after marking then remeasure before cutting.

Hope you enjoy... Ray

[rdavis]

One more pics to gauge reference....

[satsuma]

Beautiful Ray, will be awesome when finished.

[rdavis]

Many thanks Ian! Much appreciated. Quick question. How do you score in body lines into the fuselage when you want to create a fake door or something of the sorts? I ask because if I cut out all of the doors and hatches like on the real one I would have swiss cheese. LOL.

[rdavis]

I cut out the Engine Air Inlet Side Vents, they came out nice. They are not 100% perfect but when I prep for paint I'll dial them in. Pics below.

As you will note, I'm working on drawing up the Work Platform(s) but not there yet. I think the shape is correct but its too large. See reference pics. I actually looked at 50 +- pics and its very hard to find a good angle of the Work Platform and when you look at it from any angle other than straight on it appears as a different shape then what it actually is.

Enjoy.

[satsuma]

Ray, hi.

If you need to do panel lines in the fuselage, there are TWO ways to go, the first way is to mask the panel lines with fineline masking tape on BOTH sides of the panel line and then spray primer filler, when you remove the tape you have a perfect RAISED line, the other way is to lay down fineline tape again to outline the panel you wish to simulate and use a very fine triangle file and slowly score the lines into the gelcoat, both ways work, but the file method takes ages and requires a steady hand and gently does it,lol lol.

[rdavis]

Well Ian... Thank you much! It looks like the tape method is for me because cutting and grinding into a fuselage is nerve racking. Sure you can repair but still nerve racking.

[rdavis]

Well gents, I finished up the Work Platform grill openings and I will say I believe they are very close to scale. I reviewed pictures for hours and hours from every angle and I believe the manual still provided the best shots for location and shape.

Now cutting them out was not easy at all. Two rough cuts using my template method mentioned above, cutting per guidance Ian gave me when I first started the project (worth repeating):
1. Get yourself a low speed or multi speed dremel. Yes my fist attempt with with the single speed and its way to fast and provided no control. I I personally use the lowest speed and just take my time.
2. Purchase a diamond wheel and diamond milling bit (small).
3. Rough cut with wheel, leaving plenty of room to fine cut.
4. Use milling bit to get very close to the final lines, light touch, low pressure... I take my time.
5. I use jeweler files to finish the shape off and I do this from the inside and out. Cleaning up the shape from the inside gives you a clean perspective on the shape and to me its very helpful.

As you will see in the pics below I came very close to screwing it up with my milling bit cut. However in the end both are very semetcriacal, the location from side to side is within .5mm and the cuts are clean.

Ok, need to get busy with work... more in a few days.

Enjoy. Ray
BTW, thanks to all who have been helping with advice and input! Very much appreciated it.

[Keyrigger]

Nicely done. I will be adding very thin plastic sheet for many of the panels or skin doublers that are missing from my 500 TD. Take care.

Don

[rdavis]

Thank you Don... I will surely be looking at the thread. Do you have a supplier you can share for your plastic stock?

[Keyrigger]

Most hobby shops that cater to plastic model scratch builders, especially train buffs, have Evergreen Scale Models structural and sheet styrene. I just bought one pack that has three sheets of .010" stock 6x12" and another with one each .010, .020, and .040" 6x12" sheets. I have lots of other tube, angle, and channel, to build all sorts of internal and external parts. Those packs are 4.25 each and some to the others are less expensive. I use Tenax 7R ultra-fine liquid cement and I use a sable paint brush to flow it onto the joint. Works like the plastic was welded rather than glued and dries almost instantly. Take care.

Don

[rdavis]

Many thanks Don... I will be visiting one of our train shops this weekend.

[rdavis]

Gentlemen... as the title imply's I redid the Engine Air Inlet Side Vents.

They were slightly off and slightly out of oval, so I reapplied the templates I made only this time with thinner lines. I then back filled around the edge with Loctite Hysol using a needle to barely put it around the edges. I then the next day after it was dried I re-filed using slightly larger jeweler files but this time I did the filing from the front and back. I'm not sure if its the angle or what but doing clean up from the inside seems to help me keep the edges really neat.

Now all of the Side Vents are within .03mm length and slightly under that for the height and distance between the vents. I personally feel like it looks much cleaner.

Pics:

[rdavis]

Next I will be starting on the Torque Tube Cover.

I will be using styrene plastic sheet to make the cover and 2.5mm angle to make the lip. The cover is in two pieces so it should be pretty easy.

Not sure if any of you have experience but I would like to bake the styrene sheet (180 degrees), then place it around the torque tube in hopes to give it general shape before trying to glue a flexible sheet on to the fuselage. So yeah, if any of you have experience forming it please chime in.

In the pics are reference photo's, styrene sheet already cut down to 3.25" strips and I will show the angle later. Most likely wont get to this until this weekend.

Pics:

[Keyrigger]

Do be careful of the heat put off by the sheet plastic as you wrap it around the cover. Another method would be to use an angle and glue it solid to the bottom of the cover, then blend and flare it in by first sanding the upwards edge and then filling with putty. Heat does work great for forming smaller pieces but I am not sure how it will go with that size. Have fun with it.

Don

[rdavis]

Many thanks Don... much appreciated advice.

I was going to do the glueing of the angle then slightly heat to see if I can form it. That said, I may try 120 degrees just to test the forming first then if it works I'll glue then redo with the angle on. I have several sheets to play with so I'll be ok if I mess it up.

Ray