Piro flipping two ways to approach - which recommend

[FailureToFly]

100%! jmtyndall is right on the money here.

At first you can't really see what you are doing and are constantly playing catch up and as you get better you can adjust more points until you're adjusting all the time.

But then you speed up the tail and you're working hard again as your brain cannot process the information fast enough again.

It takes time and a number of years of daily practice to get reliably stationary double piro flips in both directions on the deck.

Originally Posted by jmtyndall

Even when you fly through it, there is some amount of stabilizing, either when level or at ceartain points.

What I mean is maybe you didn't give a large enough left aileron input during the flip. You have to make up for it somewhere. When you're first learning, the easiest place to identify mistakes and make corrections is right as you level out the heli either upright or inverted. As you get better, you will find more index points, such as when the tail is vertical. Now you can adjust at 4 points in the flip.

Im getting to the point now that I can see the deviation when the tail is vertical, but I still have to correct as I level the disk. These cues just clicked for me. After your brain has seen the heli piroflip a thousand times, you start to see more and more detail. It's no longer this swirling mess of information. Almost like learning a language. At first it's a jumbled mess. Eventually your brain learns to read this "piroflip language" and make corrections

[Raptorapture]

Originally Posted by jmtyndall

Even when you fly through it, there is some amount of stabilizing, either when level or at ceartain points.

What I mean is maybe you didn't give a large enough left aileron input during the flip. You have to make up for it somewhere. When you're first learning, the easiest place to identify mistakes and make corrections is right as you level out the heli either upright or inverted. As you get better, you will find more index points, such as when the tail is vertical. Now you can adjust at 4 points in the flip.

Im getting to the point now that I can see the deviation when the tail is vertical, but I still have to correct as I level the disk. These cues just clicked for me. After your brain has seen the heli piroflip a thousand times, you start to see more and more detail. It's no longer this swirling mess of information. Almost like learning a language. At first it's a jumbled mess. Eventually your brain learns to read this "piroflip language" and make corrections

I notice when some people do more rotations per flip it looks like their just using the opportunity of those extra rotations to stabilize before flipping again as opposed to changing the amount and direction of cyclic based on number of rotations per flip.

Originally Posted by FailureToFly

100%! jmtyndall is right on the money here.

At first you can't really see what you are doing and are constantly playing catch up and as you get better you can adjust more points until you're adjusting all the time.

But then you speed up the tail and you're working hard again as your brain cannot process the information fast enough again.

It takes time and a number of years of daily practice to get reliably stationary double piro flips in both directions on the deck.

Exactly how I feel while increasing rotation rate when attempting piro circles.

[dnj1985]

Originally Posted by mqowen

When I hear 3D heli pilots say anything is easy I sort of generally disagree with them in a friendly sort of way. I think rather than easy, you're a very skilled pilot.

for me, a piro flip wasnt as hard as a hurricane to do ,
was my first prio flips great ? by any means no, are they awsome yet? no , can i do them . hell yes, too me a piro flip is one of the more basic tricks if you will in 3d ,and just cuz its basic , dont make it easy,,, i sim like a 10 year old playing xbox, all the time , i think that helps , but burnout is gonna happen , but in the end your flying will improve,
but if you ever watch bert or kyle fly ,, you will notice a piro flip is almost kiddish to do,,so they will mix it up ,like a piro flipping auto from 100 ft up , and spot landing it,,, now thats hard ,,
every pilot progresses diffrent , like said hurricanes were hard for me to get ,, but the piroflip felt more "natural " in a sence,,

for some , it "clicks quicker" for others ,they are 6 yrs in and cant piro flip,
and thats more than fine, not everyone wants to do smack , some do but just dont have the cordnation, to each his own

[Ometoon]

I learned piro flips with the sim. First I practiced half flips and when I got them smooth I tried on full piro flips. What seriously helped were some tutorials on Youtube and the help of a flying mate who masters them very well.

Here the vid I used to practice the piro flips from scratch:

RC Heli Instructional Video - Piro Flips (5 min 5 sec)

This is a tutorial of Russ Prince who was earlier in this post with a vid.

What also can help is setting the simulation speed to, for instance, 70%. You can manage to get the control input right. What also can help is practicing it in parts like in the vid. Worked for me.

Good luck!

[CZorzella]

This video helped a lot...

piro flip lesson, a good explanation of how i do this move and i try to break it down into steps (2 min 51 sec)

[Inverted2112]

Key for me was to pick a large heli on the sim and slow the physics down.

Knowing the stick movements and trying to time them seemed like a parlor trick to me.

Slowing down the sim allowed me to learn how to fly through it starting with 1/2 piros. Once those clicked I will also say that I had a pretty significant boost in confidence in regular flight as well... Once you truly learn to fly through those orientations, you realize you can more instinctively recover from bad situations as well...

It was after those that things really started to click for me overall. I distinctly remember my first flight when I felt like I was able to really watch and enjoy what the heli was doing instead of being so darned focused on the sticks the whole flight.

[helisfault]

Originally Posted by mqowen

Glad to hear. I sort of learned method one, but couldn't seem to make much progress beyond a certain point. I'm now ready, or close to ready, to trying method 2 IRL. It feels harder to learn, but gets you to the goal right away. I appreciate the comment on controlled stick stir.

No worries man, get it brother! And please let me know how it's going, maybe a vid of I'm lucky👍🏻 GET IT!!

[Icanfly]

after having a bit of beginners luck early in the cp 3d experience thanks to the RAZA vid and spending tons of time practicing inverted hovers while slowly pirouetting and all orientations stationary (whew) I finally did a full piro loop. It is not easy but not as hard as made out to be, a habit of mine is to take references off the nose and tail knowing my inverted nose out flight is referenced at the nose and tail out at the tail., switching like this through a piro flip makes it a lot to think about in a very short time.

Piro-ing loops, rolls, 8's, anything will teach your fingers to stir if your going to think about it, that helps in going through transitions throughout the piro flip, definitely piro-ing loops.

For the first time I piro flipped and knew exactly what finger input to put in, most other times I winged it and I do them in all directions to keep them challenging.

fun

[GJacksonF3N]

Originally Posted by Xrayted

+1


Everyone should just put him on the ignore list, and he will go away once he realizes no one is seeing or reacting to his nonsense any longer.

Awesome, didn't know there was a way to do this. I will try that now.

[macdad]

I started by nosing over, rotating 180, and finishing the flip to inverted. Then doing the same back to upright. This seemed to help. With a bit of practice, I just started to stir with the flip.

My half piros look like crap. Honestly, I wouldn't even consider them a half piro. Trying to string them together from upright to inverted and back was not going well. Then I realized, I am getting the cart before the horse. I quit practicing them and am now just practicing piro hovering. Upright is coming along quite well. Inverted is a little ways away. Once I get inverted piro hovering down, then I will go back to attempting piro flipping.

I just know that I need that control in constant pirouetting in order to string them together. I'm not in a hurry though.

Also, I personally love the look of the piro flip much better than a tic toc. Although, I think most that don't know 3D Heli flying are more impressed with a properly executed tic toc. It doesn't look like it should hover like that

[907Heli]

Originally Posted by Ometoon

I learned piro flips with the sim. First I practiced half flips and when I got them smooth I tried on full piro flips. What seriously helped were some tutorials on Youtube and the help of a flying mate who masters them very well.

Here the vid I used to practice the piro flips from scratch:

RC Heli Instructional Video - Piro Flips - YouTube

This is a tutorial of Russ Prince who was earlier in this post with a vid.

What also can help is setting the simulation speed to, for instance, 70%. You can manage to get the control input right. What also can help is practicing it in parts like in the vid. Worked for me.

Good luck!

This is a good video. I'm just starting to work on them with my nitro. This will help. Thanks for posting it.

[Furias15x]

Yesterday I did my very first complete Piro Flip in RL. (which I have no business trying to do yet. I can barely tic toc and those aren't even stationary.)

I was flying my G570 and the winds were light and I was like WTH go for it.

It wasn't pretty but the inputs I have been working on in the SIM just came out and BOOM next thing you know it was done. It looks so much cooler in RL when that tail is coming around during the motion.

For a while I have been able to do them half way from Inverted to upright in RL. But the upright to inverted half was killing me in the SIM I could never catch it clean so I had not tried it in RL.

Lately on the SIM I have been back to practicing inverted hovering with a little bit of rudder trim added in to practice slow piros while inverted. This helped a ton in RL flying as I had gotten away from that for a while. Once I was back on it as a rule of practice a little each day it made the SIM half upright to inverted much more doable.

Yesterday I just went for the whole thing at once and it was really cool!!!

I can't wait to get out there and do some more. And hopefully I can learn how to do them in the RL without the heli sliding off to the left at the end. I cant seem to get a handle on that in the SIM about half the time it is sliding off to the left...