trying From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months

[clicky]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

Well done. Shifting from mode 1 to mode 2 is quite a change.

Clicky, so is this the start of a wholesale change to mode 2?

No. That's only thing that goes along "it is simpler than trying something really new and challenging" (using mode 1 I know how to fly with).

If it grows further, why not, but I am not dropping mode 1 to switch to mode 2. Sorry! O : )

[Himilou]

I am an intermediate hovered!!!

[Feralcoderx]

Can I be an intermediate hovered as well?

My heli log is a mess... missed a couple days, missed logging a couple days. Numbers are hard. I'm getting back on track. Was revitalized by AMain sending a bus and trailer full of really impressive team pilots to our local field for a demo and to hang out.

So, last two days I've been doing inverted piros with collective controls. I felt like it was time, even if I didn't hit the criteria perfectly. Started off very poorly, then did much better... I had a very long session, 45 minutes, because I felt like it. The last 10 minutes or so were without any crashes, so there's that! Only three crashes today doing the same, though for my normal ~15 minutes.

Started doing side to side passes, nose-leading, inverted in the sim during free time today. It was actually easier than I thought in some ways... though more difficult in others. Meh, I didn't do poorly. I'll have to keep that up. Rudder control is a mystery to me due to the locked rudder. =( That's going to take some getting used to, and hopefully this will start on that.

If I get some time to try to figure out how, I'll try to post some videos of my sim time.

At the field I've been doing inverted hovering nose in, and yesterday, tail in. I just need to convince myself that my hands know what to do, and stop over thinking it. When I spun the helicopter around, I paniced, and then realized I was still in the air... and correcting. My brain can be pretty stupid some times. No piros yet, but this is a start. I'm pretty confident with nose-in inverted hovering... I've been doing that since before I started this course, so I've been getting lower and lower. It's a bad habit for everyone at my field. =P

Wanting so badly to just do a circuit... a sloppy oval, circle thing, whatever, inverted, with control the whole way through... =/

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Feralcoderx

....
At the field I've been doing inverted hovering nose in, and yesterday, tail in. I just need to convince myself that my hands know what to do, and stop over thinking it. When I spun the helicopter around, I paniced, and then realized I was still in the air... and correcting. My brain can be pretty stupid some times. No piros yet, but this is a start. I'm pretty confident with nose-in inverted hovering... I've been doing that since before I started this course, so I've been getting lower and lower. It's a bad habit for everyone at my field. =P

Wanting so badly to just do a circuit... a sloppy oval, circle thing, whatever, inverted, with control the whole way through... =/

Woo Hoo. Unconscious competence.

Trust that the sim practice will teach you the reactions, what to do next, and how to bail out. The inverted circuits will happen.

Go as low as comfortable. As you get more experienced, you will recognize situations sooner, so lower will not feel as uncomfortable.

Even with upright (where I am very confident) I feel a little uncomfortable at eye level on the X5 and 700 due to what may happen in cases of mechanical failure.

[Himilou]

Woot! IRL all inverted flying! I did nothint at the field but fly inverted, nose first, tail first, rolls from inverted to inverted! Nothing to fast yet but I cracked the shell. Next week week continued sim practice and I should be pretty relaxed at this.

[gitbse]

Keep it up.

[Himilou]

Yeah that was a pretty big hurdle for me. Clearing that in real life has actually helped my sim practice with that also. I was being super conscious about crashing in the sim while flying inverted circuits.

I now have 117 days ( of practice ) in towards the 180 days that you get in the FTITA8AFI6M ( <- this cracks me up )

I am quite pleased with my progress so far and should have another IRL video to post "shortly"

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Xc&usp=sharing

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Himilou

Woot! IRL all inverted flying! I did nothint at the field but fly inverted, nose first, tail first, rolls from inverted to inverted! Nothing to fast yet but I cracked the shell. Next week week continued sim practice and I should be pretty relaxed at this.

Congratulations.

It's one thing to do it in the sim, another in real life. This is why all my reward goals were based on IRL flying (where consequences are real).

Originally Posted by Himilou

Yeah that was a pretty big hurdle for me. Clearing that in real life has actually helped my sim practice with that also. I was being super conscious about crashing in the sim while flying inverted circuits.

I now have 117 days ( of practice ) in towards the 180 days that you get in the FTITA8AFI6M ( <- this cracks me up )

I am quite pleased with my progress so far and should have another IRL video to post "shortly"
...

You actually have as many days as you want.. (not 180). From the original post.

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

...
As the title suggests. This is to take an absolute novice from tail-in hover to all orientation flying in less than 6 months.
....
I progressed from tail-in to funnels (and more) in 6 months. When following this guide, you may take more time, you may take less. Everyone progresses at their own rate. Do not feel discouraged if it takes longer than anticipated. There is no time limit. One thing is certain, more consistent and structured practice leads to faster progression.

Imagine where you would be without the structured practice

Keep it up. I love to hear about progress. Look forward to the video.

[Obijuan Kenobe]

Had a revelation last night.

Controls inverted are the same!!! If you don't believe, you can turn off the collective in Heli X and see for yourself.

I...like so many others...seem to have a tendency to think of inverted as change control directions...but it doesn't.

When I realised that, I could hover inverted.

The nose still goes down and up for the same stick movement. Left and right are still left and right! You just have to stop learning a new set of inputs and realise the helicopter is upside down. That's is what's inverted. Stop trying to learn a new set of inputs and instead learn that the inputs stay the same! Just like with tail out, or left or right upright...you did not bother to learn new input sets in your head. You realised they don't change relative to the helicopter. It's the same with inverted.

If this makes no sense to you...I am sorry. But for me, it was like a switch in my head.

I am not going to fly inverted IRL today. But I can hover on the SIM inverted with proficiency I could not find before realising this.

obi

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Obijuan Kenobe

Had a revelation last night.

Controls inverted are the same!!! If you don't believe, you can turn off the collective in Heli X and see for yourself.
...
You realised they don't change relative to the helicopter. It's the same with inverted.

If this makes no sense to you...I am sorry. But for me, it was like a switch in my head.

I am not going to fly inverted IRL today. But I can hover on the SIM inverted with proficiency I could not find before realising this.

You have taken your first step into a wider world.

Remember, "There is no spoon!". (For those who have seen "The Matrix").

All controls are relative to the model (not the pilot). This is the same for RC planes, gliders, multi-rotors, cars, etc.. Once you can mentally make that break you are halfway there. You do not imagine yourself in them, but your reactions become as if you are. It's a weird mental out-of-body experience. (This is also why we talk of an RC heli "feel").

Just wait till "flying the disc" clicks. You will feel like you have gone through the looking glass. Not only will upright/inverted not matter, neither will orientation.

[pscm]

So I have been following the program since this winter and have come along ways on the sim and even with my nano cpx. I can fly funnels as best one can with the nano and pretty much most maneuvers though when I get the 450 or 500 protos and now the HD 500 I vapor lock. Last weekend I decided to get brave with the 450 and was flying around upright tail first which ended up not lasting long a couple of passes before barrelling it in tail first. How do you get over this fear? I don't know if it is fear of running into myself or the crash/cost itself. Every now and then I get brave as in last weekend and push myself. The way I can fly the small guy there is no reason I shouldn't be able to fly the bigger ones. On the sim flying the disk comes and goes....good days and bad. Kind of frustrated that I won't let it go. Any suggestions?

[gitbse]

Originally Posted by pscm

So I have been following the program since this winter and have come along ways on the sim and even with my nano cpx. I can fly funnels as best one can with the nano and pretty much most maneuvers though when I get the 450 or 500 protos and now the HD 500 I vapor lock. Last weekend I decided to get brave with the 450 and was flying around upright tail first which ended up not lasting long a couple of passes before barrelling it in tail first. How do you get over this fear? I don't know if it is fear of running into myself or the crash/cost itself. Every now and then I get brave as in last weekend and push myself. The way I can fly the small guy there is no reason I shouldn't be able to fly the bigger ones. On the sim flying the disk comes and goes....good days and bad. Kind of frustrated that I won't let it go. Any suggestions?

Take these as seriously as you want, but there are 2 ways to overcome fear. Well... 3 .. but two are linked closely.

1. Crash and get it over with.
Seriously. If you have never crashed a 450 or 500, like ALOT of people I know.. the fear of the "unknown" price of crashing, and headache of rebuilding is worse than the actual process. Once you actually hit the ground and realize it's really not that bad, and you can rebuild it back to normal, the fear will diminish.

2a. Suck it up, and pull off the maneuver.
I'll never forget the first time I tried funnels and hurricanes live. I couldn't finish the last 90 degrees of the circuit. I always bailed out when it was at the 9 o'clock position, because I wasn't comfortable. One day I told myself... just grin and bear through it. So I clenched my butt cheeks a bit..held the sticks in a solid position, and pushed through the last quarter. From then I could save it if the heli went awry. I still believe that afternoon kind of "set me free" in movie terms with my flying.

I still have to tell myself to suck it up sometimes. Even though I'm not afraid of crashing, or really afraid of anything heli flying... still pulling off something you have only done on a smaller bird or the sim can still be nerve wracking. BUT once I pull something off for the first time live, it's cake from there. I KNOW I can do it on the sim over and over, so the only hurdle is doing it the first time live. From there, I'm reassured that the heli actually does what I want it to... and that I can pull it off.

2.b Practice something until you can't fail.
Then you still have to pull it off live for the first time, referencing back to 2a. Once you are very confident in doing something though, the fear will go away. (If you push it away.)

Just like any fear in life though, you have to suck it up, pull your big boy pants up and do it.I'm still working on that with certain aspects of life, but in the heli flying world I have it nailed fairly well.

[pscm]

I crashed both, the 450 3 times bad and the 500 hard landed if you will. Ithi k the size and nose is the issue

[cquillen]

I'm using the heli-x hover training. Here is my training log is posted below.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing


I just started inverted.

My last upright session was just sad. 9 crashes. *sigh*.

I got ambitious and decided to try the small circle. Wow is it little! Caused me to over correct a lot and get out of control. After the heli gets wild from an over correct I have trouble getting it settled again. I need to work on stopping on point without inducing reverse motion.

I also think I had gotten used to the slow sim speed from the inverted sessions. Threw off my full speed timing a bit. You don't have the big pause while waiting on heli to react to an input.

I'm not going to try small circle again for a while!

Anyways.... inverted hasn't been the insane 50+ crash fest i thought it would be. I've been able to occasionally make 1 or 2 full revolutions. The sessions start out crazy but start to calm down about half way through.

[Kaolith]

The small circles are a pain to master as an extra challenge. They do really tighten up your flying though.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Kaolith

The small circles are a pain to master as an extra challenge. They do really tighten up your flying though.

+1.

Do get the basics of one lesson, then proceed to the next. Variety becomes as important to progression as repetition of the basics.

When you are flying sideways 8's and doing maybe one hover session a day, then start reducing circle size. Or for extra challenge add wind, then turbulence.

[jmtyndall]

I love the small circles. 80 rotations per minute for 5 minutes one day, then one rotation per minute the next. Trains the reflexes and the precision

[cquillen]

hover training log: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

My inverted piro hovers are coming along. I'm steadily increasing sim speed while keep crash count low or even zero in the medium circle with automatic collective.

The thing is those low crash count numbers hide the fact that most of my corrections while inverted are wrong. I just manage to re-correct and stay in the circle due slower sim speed and small moves.

My last upright session was rough. Was still 0 crashes, but was making a lot of correction mistakes. I'm thinking these mistakes are a sign that inverted is starting to become integrated into "hard wired" corrections. And that maybe I will start seeing better corrections in inverted soon.

Does that seem reasonable?

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by cquillen

hover training log: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

My inverted piro hovers are coming along. I'm steadily increasing sim speed while keep crash count low or even zero in the medium circle with automatic collective.

The thing is those low crash count numbers hide the fact that most of my corrections while inverted are wrong. I just manage to re-correct and stay in the circle due slower sim speed and small moves.

My last upright session was rough. Was still 0 crashes, but was making a lot of correction mistakes. I'm thinking these mistakes are a sign that inverted is starting to become integrated into "hard wired" corrections. And that maybe I will start seeing better corrections in inverted soon.

Does that seem reasonable?

This is reasonable. You notice the "wrong" corrections far more than the right ones (ie the oh ones are more rememberable). As you increase speed, you get less time to respond to them (and you notice them earlier). Consequently you do them less. This is all part of the learning process. You are doing it right.

Once you get inverted medium circle with computer collective at 100% speed down to 0 consistently (4 sessions), then take control of the collective (initially you will feel like you have started over). Use the same progression as you have been doing so far and you will get to the point where inverted is just another orientation (and nothing special).

In short you are doing great. Keep going.

Nice to see you are alternating upright and inverted.

[cquillen]

Originally Posted by ArchmageAU

Once you get inverted medium circle with computer collective at 100% speed down to 0 consistently (4 sessions), then take control of the collective (initially you will feel like you have started over). Use the same progression as you have been doing so far and you will get to the point where inverted is just another orientation (and nothing special).

So I will probably need to go back down on the sim speed after adding collective in and work back up to 100%?

I've been doing flips and rolls in play time, but I've been going all the way around back to upright. Just doing the neg pitch "bumps" to maintain altitude while passing through inverted. I think holding the collective stick below center for hover is going to be very weird. My muscle memory is going to freak out.

I've also noticed that while the piro hovers do teach orientation and automatic correction, the skill doesn't instantly transfer to traveling flight corrections. I had been ignoring the lazy eights and just doing roll/flips. I figured if I could hover then I could fly.

WRONG!

I finally got around to doing some upright lazy 8s tail in and they were super ugly. And moving around nose in at all was super uncomfortable. So I starting practicing them in earnest. I've got to the point where my turns are pretty smooth both with tail fixed and when turning into direction of flight. And guess what? I noticed an immediate improvement with my piro hovers after just a couple lazy 8 focused play times!

Anyways... I guess my point is that the hover skills DO transfer to moving, but it still takes some work. It doesn't just happen for free. AND moving flight skills feed back into and improve the hover skills. So you shouldn't do hovers exclusively like I was.

Now I'm working on the lazy 8s nose-in (no rudder in the turns). I couldn't even keep a straight line back and forth to start with. Now I'm finally getting it widened into something that looks sorta 8ish. It still feels really strained though.

I'm actually going to expand this "no rudder lazy eights" step into all orientations: tail-in, nose-in, nose-left, nose-right, center going out, center coming in, and all those again inverted (once I can do inverted at all). 16 different combinations in all.

I'll still do the proper banked circle lesson also of course. The fixed tail circles I'm talking about are more about just controlling the birds in general while moving in any orientation.