"Power Systems that Work" (Please read 1st post)

[Finless]

OK you all asked and I think it is a good thing!

SO..... this post is to share:
"Power Systems that Work"

NO BULL and we need videos and/or EXPERIENCE with the systems that "work".

NO ADVERTISERS!

User experience ONLY! No speculation!

GO at it guys and lets make this a valuable POST!

Bob
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Guidelines:

* Please refrain from posts other than listing power setups, data logs, and video links.

* If you have questions, please PM the original poster, or use the "Power Systems" discussion.

* If you listed a set up and are getting the same question asked over and over, please edit your original post to include that information.

* If you are adding info, data or video. - Please edit your original post rather than starting a new post.

* If you are uncertain about what or how you should post, use the post by PDC as a template. If you still have questions, PM me(ticidytoc).


These few things will keep the thread clean and simple, easy for others to navigate, not having to skim over the "hey how long of flight time", or "what pinion r u using" questions.


Thanks for your co-operation guys!

Matt

[PDC]

Well, I haven't got any video´s yet, and I also cant say that I have flown these two setup´s for hundreds of flights, so don´t know if my post is valid for this thread? BUT I am not afraid to recommend them as powerful light weight 3D setup´s based on my experience with the motors and esc. in other similar and bigger models.

Only new component in the power train for me is the FlightPower batteries, and know from experience that the NEU and Kontronic motor´s are good motors. I am not afraid for the batteries as they have already been tested by many others out there, and as they show no signs of stress with these two setup´s below.

On the 8S NEU setup I use a UBEC. After having tested different BEC´s, I ended up with the UBEC as the best one.
As always with a switching BEC there is produced a little amount of noise, but in e-heli´s there is radio noise from many different sources, so really, it is not a question about to have noise or not, it is more a question about if the noise is under control or not. A good receiver and ferrite rings is the trick here.

Also it is my experience that the UBEC produce more noise the higher input voltage, that is something talking for a 8S setup instead of a 10S setup if one wants to use a UBEC.

When I fly alone I don´t feel any noise from the UBEC and 8S, but I have seen small glitches with a 10S setup on the field with many other transmitters swithced on at the same time.

Which of the two setup´s I like the most I haven't decided yet, both setup´s gives similar, very good and enough power for all 3D maneuvers.

Flight times is in the range of 5-6 minutes.

The helical gear reduces the noise level a lot.

To avoid the tail belt to get loose I mounted four bolt´s for the tail boom.

Again, at the bottom line I am not afraid to recommend both these setup´s.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Date 22-12-06
Ambient temp 2C/35F

T-REX600-1 configuration.

- Weight 3,38kg / 6 pound 10 oz
- FlightPower EVO 20 8S 3700ma
- NEU 1515-2Y motor
- UBEC
- 12/188T helical gear
- 0 pitch 100% Rotor RPM = 2030 RPM
- 601 Gyro
- Fut 9252 Servo´s
- Tail blades = Align
- Main blades = 600mm TT blades

Motor temp before/after = 16C61F/43C109F
Battery temp before/after = 18C64F/36C97F

------------------------------------------------------------------------

T-REX600-2 configuration.

- Weight 3,48kg / 6 pound 17 oz
- FlightPower EVO 20 10S 3300ma
- Kontronic Tango 45-08
- Align receiver akku
- 13/188T helical gear
- 0 pitch 100% Rotor RPM = 2080 RPM
- 601 Gyro
- Fut 9252 servo´s
- Tail blades = Align
- Main blades = 600mm TT blades

Motor temp before/after = 9C48F/25C77F
Battery temp before/after = 14C57F/30C86F

--------------------------

Update 6 Januar 2007

Like the 10S 3300 ma Tango setup over the 8S 3700 ma setup, gives more power at cold temperatures.

--------------------------

Update 7 May 2007

Video of 10S T-REX above.

http://www.mediamax.com/pdcpdc/Links/64195A2E19

[northwood]

Hoping I don't violate any rules, I'll post my setup:


- Weight just under 3,6kg
- FlightPower EVO 20 (NF: 20Cont-30Csustained-50Cburst) 10S 3700 mAh
- Z-Power 50 - KV:565
- Stock BEC
- 18/170T straight cut gear
- 0 pitch 100% Rotor RPM = approx. 2200-2300 RPM
- 401 Gyro
- Hitec 5985MG servo's
- Tail blades = Align
- Main blades = CarbonTech 600mm
- Pitch -13/13
- Cyclic as much as I can get



Planning on a lot of upgrades.

Motor temp after = pretty hot, but then again these motors run a little hot
Battery temp after = cool to the touch


I'm sorry I don't have a lot of scientific data on it like FDR graphs and accurate temps.

The machine flys very nice, has A LOT of very consistent power throughout the flight.
I limit my flight times to 7 mins (no eye popping 3D, but I've tried to load it up) and after that I put back around 2900-3000 mAh.

[KDE Direct]

Currently, the three best 6S MOTORS on the market are very similar, so it's up to your own opinion on what you want for your particular setup. Here's the overall opinions I'm reading the most:

Align 600XL - best bang for the buck (NEU motors are 2x - 3x more expensive). With the new recall and updated shafts, hopefully the durability problems are solved. The motor generates great power with the 11T helical pinion, but the 12T helical causes an overheating issue with improper collective control and high pitch. Appears to be slightly less powerful than the NEU 1515/2.5D/F. Motor is compatible with 6S only.
SPECS:
Input voltageC11.1-22.2V 3-6cell Li-Po
Max continuous current:70A/85A(60sec)
Max output power:Approx. 1600W/2000W(60sec)
KV value:1650KV
Dimension:spindle 5x65x43.3mm
Weight:Approx. 300g

NEU 1512/1.5Y/F - higher kv rating (1900kV) requires usage of a governor to properly control headspeed with 12T helical. 11T helical should provide around 2300 rpm headspeed at 100% throttle, so this may be the best option. Also have heard great reviews of performance from the motor and is lighter than the other three motors. Due to the lighter weight and higher efficiency, this motors should provide the longest flight times at a slight cost of performance.
SPECS:
1200 Watts Continuous
2500Watts - 30sec
Max rpm: 60,000
Stator Dia. 1.5"
Magnet/rotor length 1.2"
Shaft: 5mm
Shaft length: .75"
Weight: S 280g, F 290g
Dimensions 2.4"L x 1.56" dia.

NEU 1515/2.5D/F - best overall power for a 6S setup. Larger motor produces higher torque/cooler motor than the NEU 1512/1.5Y and Align 600XL at a cost of higher amperage usage and slightly shorter flight times (although it seems to be very similar to the 600XL, so possibly more efficient? :?: ). This is the motor I am running and I am very happy with it. Running the 12T helical at +/- 14* pitch (2270 rpm at 100% throttle) with my inferior collective control does not cause any overheating or bogging issues. Of course, performance comes at a price and it is the most expensive (almost $300...ouch).
SPECS:
1500 Watts Continuous
2700Watts - 30sec
Max rpm: 60,000
Stator Dia. 1.5"
Magnet/rotor length 1.5"
Shaft: 5mm
Shaft length: .75"
Weight: S-340g, F-360g
Dimensions 2.7"L x 1.56" dia.

So, it's up to your own discretion on how much money you want to spend and whether your looking for all out power on 6S or prefer longer flight times out in the field. With my flying style, I'm getting 6 minutes with the 1515/2.5D/F and putting back 3800-4000 mAh consistently back into the TP 5000-6SX packs.

[fogger]

I'm having a great time with the 10S hacker setup:

1 6s hyperion 4350 plus 1 4s 4350 in series, Hacker A50-14S 10 pole, Jazz 55-10-32 (-Love- the Kontronik).

Also I just got a couple 5S 3700 EVO packs and am wringing them out. Heli flys a little lighter and balances better but flight time drops a bit...

Running a Mikado 18 tooth pinion at 90-95% on governor mode for about 2100 rpm HS. Pulls peaks of about 2100 Watts, but I have seen one peak of 2500 when I had the pitch setup wrong with around 15 1/2 - 16 degrees negative. Man did it climb out inverted though . Motor is routinely around 130F after a flight, with ambient around 50-65. Speed controller doesn't even get warm, packs get to about 90F.

I might go up a tooth and see what it's like, but it flys awesome now (if a little heavy for hard 3d) and the power system isn't even breaking a sweat, so it'll last forever setup this way...

I get at least 7-8 min, putting back 80%.

Downside: the pinion has to be driled to 6mm for this motor, and the frames have to be cut. Pics of the setup are in my gallery.

If I find someone with a datalogger or a video camera I'll post more. If anyone in the phoenix area wants to meet up and check it out let me know.

Also I posted a onboard video in another thread:

https://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic....=asc&&start=29

Check it out to get an idea of how it performs for now...

EDIT:

Well my own eagletree seems to provide different data than my buddies. His showed a max of about 2700W while mine consistently shows peaks in the 2300 range. He did "calibrate" his and I have not done this, believing that they should have done this at the factory... So here are the most recent data graphs from my setup, with motor temps. Most interesting is how much the temp climbs rapidly after I shut it down.


-Fog

[MrMel]

T-Rex 600 - RotorWorkz HFE frame - NEU 1912/1Y on 10s

- RotorWorkz HFE frame
- Weight 3420 grams
- FlightPower EVO 20 10s1p 3700 mAh
- Neu 1912/1Y - KV:825
- Medusa BEC
- Jazz 55-10-32
- 14/170T straight cut gear
- 0 pitch 100% Rotor RPM = approx. 2500 RPM
- 70% Governor on Jazz = 2200 RPM, 75% = 2300 RPM
- gy611
- Futaba 9650 on cyclic
- Tail blades = Radix 95mm
- Main blades = VBlades 600mm
- Pitch +-12.5
- Cyclic max without binding.

Temps not available (Currently -5C ambient here, so everything running pretty cool)

Batteries < 20C is not recommended for this setup.

Runtime: 4-5 minutes (to stay within 80% rule) 4 Minutes 3D, 5 minutes 3D/Sport mix.
Power: Extreme power output, Bogging = None.

Here is some FDR charts, last one showing how little RPM drops, (2160HS is my hover RPM)






(only 80 RPM drop from hover RPM under 2250watt load, sub zero conditions outside, thats nice !)

[tcast305]

Trex 600 - Custom Heli Parts 2mm CF frame
Zpower Z50a-800 motor (780kv) with 14T pinion
CC 85HV running in GOV mode (GOV-HIGH) and set to 75% for 2100rpm
FP EVO 10s (2x5s) 3700mah packs
Futaba 611 gyro
Hitec 6975 servos for cyclic
600mm Vblades
95mm Vblades for tail
Align torque tube

I get about 6 mins with my capable 3D skills . Very hard 3d like in video I posted around 4:30min.

ESC/Motor/Packs all stay very cool to warm.

I've posted my FDR charts in the FDR sticky topic.

Thanks.

[KDE Direct]

Hey Guys -

I recently installed the Align XL with 12T helical and +/-14* pitch to see how the Align compared to my NEU 1515/2.5D/F powerhouse. The power and torque were about 95% there, but it would bog more during full climbouts and pitch pumping and also had a noticeable drop-off towards the last few minutes of the flight. The motor is also much noisier, making a metallic ringing sound compared to the NEU.

The flight time was identical to the NEU 1515/2.5D, running 6 minutes for my flying style. IMHO, the NEU 1515/2.5D provides more power and efficiency than the Align XL. The major concern I have with the Align was the heat of the motor at the end of the flight. Here were the stats I measured yesterday (about 60F ambient temperature):

NEU 1515/2.5D/F after 6 minutes - 148F maximum
Align 600XL after 6 minutes - 198F maximum

Needless to say, the Align 600XL is definitely getting hot with the 12T helical installed and 14* pitch climbouts. With the NEU motor, I can bang the sticks with consequent packs and it never gets above 148F. Normal flights, it ends up around the low 140s or so.

[electriciancarl]

OK guys, here's my thoughts on the Neu motor. Fan-frigin-tastic. The increase in power over the XL is greater than the difference between the L to XL. Tons of power. Head speed in a hover (10 to 20 mph wind) is 2250. It holds this in forward flight only loosing about 50 rpm in a pretty hard turn. The climb out is scary fast with almost no bogging at 13+ deg. pitch. In fact I never bogged the motor even in multiple flips. And it was climbing!! The extra speed and power made my tic-toc's look like small rainbows. Collective management is no longer a worry at full pitch but I found myself flying higher and faster than usual. Not intentionally, it just wants to go! My flights lasted nearly a minute longer before my lipo alarm lit up. Power never dropped off. I think thats due to the lower motor temp. About 30 to 40 deg lower than the XL. The ambient temp was about 90 and the motor was in the high 140's. The battery was 120 (TPX5000). This was also my first flight with V paddles so in combination with the extra power my flying seemed sloppy today. But I'll get used to it. The heli rolls like a drill bit. Very fast on the cyclic. my setup is;
T-600 CF
CC80ESC non gov 100% across
Neu 1515/2.5D/F on 11t pinion (straight)
TPX5000 Extreem
Radix main and tail blades (new thrust bearing tail)
80mm V paddles
belt driven tail
S-9451 cyclic servos
If you can find a motor that beats this one in power, temp, and efficiency, get two and send me one. Expensive, yes but worth it IMHO.
Carl

[OICU812]

I modeled this setup after Ticidytocs, only using a CC85HV esc.


So before stating the settings here is deal.

1910-1Y with 13 tooth "straight" pinion with 170 main gearing
Flight Power VPower 25C 8S1P bricks.
Castle Creations HV85HV ESC

I put in the following:
Firmware version 1.51 << Note this **
Standard Advance Timing
PWN Freq = Default
Governor = High
Start Up power = 4
Spool Up Speed = 8
Governor Gain = 33%
Current Limiting = Disabled
Voltage cutoff = 18V, I take no risk at having the esc shut me down. Don't forget I am running 8S not 6S.
Brake Disabled.

Anyhow I tried this with more and less gov gain etc and found these settings to be optimum. I have the head loaded good for 90+ % of my flight always and this worked very well.

Thought to share this as I seen allot of peeps running fixed in CC controllers, imho governor is always better when it works, and it is working well with this esc at these settings. Guess I wanted to prove that the governor did work with this ESC and this motor/lipo combo as several stated that it would not work. Cheers.

[OICU812]

4:20 and I land. 3700mah 8S1P FP 25C bricks. Putting back in 2800 mah back into pack, pretty aggressive flight as well.

[Bill Sanford]

TRex 600 CF Bought, built, & flown at IRCHA 2007!

Align 600XL motor
Align 75A speed control
13 tooth helical pinion
Two 5S 4000 mAh 20C packs in parallel to make 5S 8000 mAh (I had two 5S 4000 mAh packs for an airplane that I bought for $50 each new at an E fun fly in St Paul, MN)
Align 600mm carbon blades

No load headspeed on the ground at 100% throttle was 2150 RPM

This past Tuesday night I sport flew for 6 minutes (no 3D). Hard climb outs, loops, etc...

Motor, ESC, and packs were just warm to the touch after the flight.

I put 4,100mAh back into the parallel packs.

Based on this, I should be able to fly 9 minutes using less than 80% capacity...

I'm surprised it works this well on 5S!

Bill

[Bill Sanford]

OK, I bit the bullet and went high voltage as everyone suggested.

I also went 12S A123... (Thanks Carsten for the great info you provided!)

Setup is as follows:

12S A123 pack
Century 650A Plus 800kv (ZPower Z50A-800 rebranded for Century)
Castle Creations Phoenix 85HV
Align 13 helical tooth pinion

Flies great. See FDR graphs below:

Edit: For report go here: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=39527&page=7 See post 190.

Bill

[knut stritzl]

Hi Guys,

here is my TRex 600 setup.
My Buddy Holger Port and I develop a Frame for the Rex with the motor on top and a second transmission belt gear. Here is a link to the build thread.
http://www.rc-heli.de/board/index.php?topic=60318.0

The advantage over the orig. Frame is
- many different motors can be used apart from their diameter/size
- many different motors can be used apart from their Umin/V
- the bevel main gear can be used independent of the Umin/V from the motor
- and last but not least so far as i know i´m the only one who use this

The first flight i meassured was a bit harder as the second. Both flights are done with 12s1p A123. I can fly only sportmix/acrobatics no 3D.
Here is the setup wich i used former when i meassured with the eagletree:

Ambient temp 25°
Weight ~3600gr.(12sA123)
Battery 12sA123 (prewarmed 35°)
Actro 24-3
Transmission approximate ~15-16T/170T
Jazz 55-10-32
Rotor RPM 0° Pitch 75% ~2150
Pitch +/- 13,5°
Main Blades Helitec 600mm ND-W (125gr. per blade)
Gyro LGT 6100 incl. orig. Servo
Futaba 3152
Tail Blade orig. cfk Align

Motor Temp 50°
Battery Temp 55-60°

Current setup b/c of a chrash is:
Futaba 9451
6A Align bec
NHP 600 razor pro (140gr. per blade)
Alu Main Blade Holder
Thrust Bearing Tail
CFK Tail Boom



Sorry for my bad english, hope you get what i mean

[Dynamic]

I had a previous thread about my setup and I got people complaining about no flight data.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=54311
So I went out and got an eagletree elogger v3 with powerpanel and brushless rpm monitor

my setup is as follows
1515 2.5d/f/h with a revco 10T
8s ( 6s TPeXteme 5000mah + 2s TPeXtreme 5000mah)
CC110HV ( heli fixed endpoints and a 95% flat throttle curve, no govenor)
Hercules BEC
Kasama head
Kasama tail hub
Torque tube
Vee Blades tst edition blades
Vblade 95mm tail blades
Radix 3mm super stubz paddles (440mm flybar)
611 gyro + s9256 tail servo
s9351 cyclic servos

Headspeed has been matched with optical tach and is correct as best I can tell.

Flight 1:
I started with a sustained climbout to medium descent then flew around doing fast forward flight and mild 3d.

Flight 2:
Sustained climbout (longer then the first flight around mid flight more forward flight (various orientaiton inverted forward and backward flying), less 3d.

Initial observations from the logs....glad I went with the 110HV instead of the 85. The temperature was around 0 degrees celcius so the batteries will have slightly less power then in the summer months.

I am new to FDR informatin but included what I believe to be pertinent information. I save my logs so if I am missing something you want to see ask and I can provide it. (no temp sensors batteries get warm but not hot, motor and ESC barely warm up at all to the touch).

[OTA]

Hi

Well, think it is time for me to add my setup here as a system that works. About 27 flights so far without problems so the intitial longevity is there. Will update as time pass by. This setup is extremely powerful and may be suitable for everything between hard 3D or maybe as stretch setup. Power output typical 2500-3100Watt with my flight style. Assume the system can be pushed further with more HS and more pitch, but with a price to be paid in high stress to all components.

After some flights and getting used to the setup, it really more or less just seems adequate for the T-rex, but to put it in perspective, i tested my friend 6S Neu 1515 back to back and that suddenly seemed way underpowered.


Setup:

-T-Rex 600 CF
-V-Blades TST
-+-12 Pitch
-Cyclic pitch: maximum without binding
-Align Carbon paddles
-Align 6A Regulator
-2S TP Prolite 2100
-Kontronik Tango 45-07-13T Mikado pinion
-Castle Creation Phoenix HV45 ESC
-2 x TP 3300 V2 6S =12S (500g each battery)
Esc Settings:
-1.55 Software
-Governor high
-Motor timing: Low
-swithching rate: 13khz
-Gov gain: 43
-Throttle response: High

Other useful info:
-Weight: HOLD (Around 3600g)
-Flight time typ hard 3D: 6 Minutes, within 80% rule
-Head speed typical: 2150 idle 1 and 2250 idle 2 (46 and 48% flat throttle in TX)
-Temperature ESC after flight: 30 degr.C
-Temperature Motor after flight: 40 degr.C
-Pack temperature: 29 degr.C

Note for temp checks: Was breaking in some packs today, so the measurements is done after 2 times 5 min hover. 2 minutes between them. In practice, this means slightly higher temp for ESC and motor than normally and slightly less for the packs.

Will also test with FP Evolite V2 2500 packs. Looking forward to that as those packs will remove 300g flight weight and that is noticeable on performance even the heli doesnt feel heavy with the 3300 packs.


https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=68868

[LJS]

T-Rex 600E w 1910/1Y w fan and FP 8S 4270 Evolite

- Model: TRex 600E (bare bones CF with no Align electronics)
- Weight: 7 lbs 10 oz
- Battery: FP 8S 4270 Evolite X 3
- Motor New 1910/1Y w fan
- BEC: WR Herc 5A set to 6V
- ESC: Jazz 55-10-32 (governed at 85%)
- Gears: 13/170T straight cut gear
- 0 pitch 100% Rotor RPM: 2100 RPM
- Gyro: Futaba 611/9256
- Cyclic: Futaba 9452s
- Tail blades: Align 95mm
- Main blades: RotorTech 600mm
- Pitch +-12
- Motor Temp: 150 F
- ESC Temp 95 F
- Battery Temp 140 F
- Runtime: 5:45 putting back in 3000 mah
- Flying style: Moderate 3D
- Notes: Great power although it has fallen off a bit as the batteries have been used. So far 158 flights and the only problem has been a single puffed cell on one battery. I am working with FP to get it covered under warranty. I was concerned about the durability of the Neu, but it has been performing very well. The Jazz governor is a dream!

[VDFS]

I pretend use 10s in my trex 600 but i have some doubts:What motor i buy SCORPION,NEU,or others???What setup you suggest me for my trex have insane power????And esc what is best to run with 10s????:co nfused::co nfused::co nfused:.And acctuly i have 2 packs 5000mah 6s this packs can be utilized???What you suggest me??? Help me please.........

[OTA]

Originally Posted by VDFS

I pretend use 10s in my trex 600 but i have some doubts:What motor i buy SCORPION,NEU,or others???What setup you suggest me for my trex have insane power????And esc what is best to run with 10s????:co nfused::co nfused::co nfused:.And acctuly i have 2 packs 5000mah 6s this packs can be utilized???What you suggest me??? Help me please.........

Didnt your read the first post, giving guidelines for posting here This is the section for "Power systems statements" and not for discussion.
Did you actually read any about the various setups ?????????????? Its plenty of 10S setups. Please slow down and start reading the available information. If you then miss out particular issues, please feel free to ask.

Can someone move these posts to "Discussion" section please.

Sorry for almost loosing my temper

[VDFS]

Sorry guys.