YGE + V-Bar gov with auto bailout, it works...Honestly!

[snemi00]

There have been varying reports of success and failure with getting the YGE to work with the V-Bar gov and have the bailout feature working.
In Mr.Mel's setup video he shows how to set it up with the bailout feature, and in the various threads on here you can read about how to setup the YGE specifically to work with the v-bar gov.
The best documentation of this is written by Mystic 3D here in this thread https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...=339471&page=7

The bailout feature DOES work if you have it setup properly. I have mine working with the transmitter calibrated to 100-100 on the throttle channel. I also tried it with extending the endpoints out past 100-100 to 110-110 and it worked with that as well.
I don't like using more than a 100 -100 range. If you do this, then a flat 100 throttle curve gives you a REQUESTED RPM that is higher than your maximum RPM you enter in the GOVII pane of the V-Bar settings

I'm using Heli-middle and Plane-fast so far and like how it feels. The startup is quite smooth, no real kick.
Unfortunately for me, I'm not in a sunny place where I can fly in the middle of winter, so I haven't had a good day in the past week to really optimize the gains. Hopefully that will happen soon.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsngkei8nkc[/ame]

[velocity90]

5th one confirmed it doesnt work, gaui x7 160hv +vbar gov + yge160. I have yet to see a vid of it.

Your video shows nothing new. I told number of times our 5 helis also react the samw why on the bench. Try it 15 meters in the air with blades. Make sure that you have enough spare parts.

Also the -110 110 has been tested and rpm is as correct as with programming with -100 100. The baiout will simply never work with the YGE period.

[snemi00]

It indeed works off the bench in flight as well. I showed it on the bench to illustrate, but I just did a short flight in my backyard here for you to see.
I have most definately attempted it from above 15 meters and I don't see why there would be any difference. The motor runs at the bailout speed for as long as you like.

Perhaps there is a difference in firmware versions? I just had my 120HV updated about 3 weeks ago by YGE.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvJnbKPPBgc[/ame]

[velocity90]

Sorry, I have no clue when you switch from bailout to flightmode again. We have 5 helis here, different people and none can get it to work as good as mr mels demonstration. 2 have disited to go Scorpion Commander. Yge isnt going to fix this, to bad...

Also post a vid of an actual bailout. Its totaly different than what you do there, also compare it to mr mels vid, which on switching has hover rpm within 2 seconds. In the vid you dont have that. MAybe its just enough to safe your 700, It sure isnt on a 600 of 550 size. And it also isnt on your 700 when autorotating inverted.

[joe1l]

There are alot of factors playing with external govs. I have done ALOT of testing recently with the CGY750 gov and my YGE esc's. Since there wasn't official E-gov support with the CGY750, i had to learn and adapt things from the Vbar and SK720. I ended up learning alot more about my YGE during this last month and governor setup than I ever thought I would. The lessons learned are applicable to any E-gov and some even apply to internal govs.

There are many many factors that can be affecting auto-bailout...Some are YGE, some are VBAR and some are motor related. The most valuable lesson I learned is the importance of a linear throttle. Without linear response, the gov will not be able to correct headspeed properly. The biggest problem area that exists is at the limits...top 10% bottom 10%. The top 10% directly affects our gearing and max headspeed. What i learned was that this issue can vary depending on motors.. I found that with 1 motor i (Xera 4035-400)92% to 100% acted yet below 92% no issue. On another motor(Xera4025-830) 96%- 100%... I found that extending my endpoints to 110/110 adding resolution with my Xera 4035-400 on 12s helped whereas on my 4025 it did not.
I have talked to others who saw the same thing. From what I can see the result varies with TX, voltage, motor, timing and PWM. The same issues we see with upper limit we see with lower limit hence affecting Auto-Bailout. I do believe Autobailout will work with YGE but your results will vary depending on motor/voltage/settings etc. Besides motor settings you also to look at Vbar Gov ramp up settings etc.

Here are a few universal principles that are important and apply here.
1.) Endpoints: They need to be calibrated precisely. Without this...external governing wont work properly as most of you already know.

2.) Linear Throttle Response. Without a linear throttle...a gov will not able to correct headspeed properly... Hence you need proper throttle resolution (100/100) minimum

3.) Motor settings are critical. PWM,/timing/LVC .. Plane throttle response pushes your motor much harder than internal...hence timing and pwm are even more critical than when using internal gov. I have found that i am using lower timing and sometimes slightly higher PWM to ensure better performance with External govs. The same is true with LVC...you will have bigger current spikes with external gov than internal which can cause LVC to trip prematurely....Max LVC =3.1 with external gov (less aggressive flying) with LVC=3.0 for aggressive flyers/higher current setups.

What TX, Motor, Timing,PWM Startup / Response settings are each of you guys using. There is no point in dismissing someone else's results as it will not lead to fruitful discussion here. If anything it will the exact opposite.

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by velocity90

Sorry, I have no clue when you switch from bailout to flightmode again. We have 5 helis here, different people and none can get it to work as good as mr mels demonstration. 2 have disited to go Scorpion Commander. Yge isnt going to fix this, to bad...

Also post a vid of an actual bailout. Its totaly different than what you do there, also compare it to mr mels vid, which on switching has hover rpm within 2 seconds. In the vid you dont have that. MAybe its just enough to safe your 700, It sure isnt on a 600 of 550 size. And it also isnt on your 700 when autorotating inverted.

When you hear the motor slow, that would be throttle hold, when you hear it spool back up. Now in Mr Mels videos looks like the same to me.
So just saying it "does not work" is as specific as mud. Means nothing.

I "think" what you are saying is "its not fast enough? So in an Auto the motor is spinning slowly and has to come up to hover speed in 2s.




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[snemi00]

Just got back from a local field.
Cold and really windy but I just had to go and try out this bailout thing again in the wide open.
Works like a charm! And the spool up is just like in the video I posted, very very fast.
I love the YGE so much more with the Vbar gov, it feels really solid.

[bj660raptor]

good job man!looks great

[BlakeMcBrayer]

It works like a charm for me too. Rave ENV, YGE 160, Scorpion HK-4535-550LE. No delay coming out of TH.

If I can get the work, family and weather stars to all line up and get some time to fly, I'll post a vid mine as well.

[pgonzalez]

Originally Posted by snemi00

It indeed works off the bench in flight as well. I showed it on the bench to illustrate, but I just did a short flight in my backyard here for you to see.
I have most definately attempted it from above 15 meters and I don't see why there would be any difference. The motor runs at the bailout speed for as long as you like.

Perhaps there is a difference in firmware versions? I just had my 120HV updated about 3 weeks ago by YGE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvJnbKPPBgc

I also have the 120HV on a Furion 6 and the bailout works just as good as the video shown. It has given me so much confidence that I can now do auto's on a 450. The only difference is my firmware is before the built in phase sensor.

[joe1l]

Can you guys who are having luck with Autobailout post which TX, Motor, ESC and the following YGE settings Timing,PWM, Gov Start/Response (heli mid + plane fast) etc

[snemi00]

YGE 120HV with internal phase sensor
Mini V-Bar
Spektrum DX7
Scorpion 4035-560
ESC/Throttle in VStabi calibrated to 100/100 with transmitter throttle endpoints at 104/104
Throttle trim on transmitter at center position
Motor off at -104% no delay when flicked out of throttle hold
Max throttle at 98%

YGE stop and full programmed using collective control function in VStabi
Timing 18deg
PWM 8KHz
Heli middle/Plane fast
Freewheel ON

[velocity90]

Why the transmittor points at -104 104? The YGE will calibrate its range to the input so -100 100 will be the same.

Im sorry guys, but I think you will need to see a hobbywing or scorpion esc in action to see how bad the auto bailout of the YGE really is. If its enough for you, fine, but it isnt functioning the way Vbar intents it to.

Fredrik even practises total bladestops with the bailout. Try that with your YGE. I have ordered the new Scorpion Commander V after not being able to practice autos last season.

At 3:00 you can hear the switch, within 2 secs theres hover rpm. Nowhere near YGE's 3 to 4 seconds. It takes 2.5 seconds on the YGE for the rpm to even start raising.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf3SwbKOPZw[/ame]

[pgonzalez]

Originally Posted by joe1l

Can you guys who are having luck with Autobailout post which TX, Motor, ESC and the following YGE settings Timing,PWM, Gov Start/Response (heli mid + plane fast) etc

Here are my settings:

YGE 120HV with hyperion phase sensor
Motor=Scorpion HKIII 4035-500
Spectrum DX8 but also worked on DX7
Timing=24 degrees
PWM=12Khz
Plane Fast
start power 4%
Free Wheel Off


I have not seen a Hobbywing or a Scorpion in action but I could not ask more from my YGE. When I was learning to do auto's the blades would practically stop but not quite on the ground yet and then I would come out of TH and it would pick up the headspeed really quick.

I once accidently came out off throttle hold on the ground with the bailout armed and the helicopter spun around so quick it scared the s*** out of me. Now if you want to talk about slow spool up try the Castle autobailout, it is practically useless.

[joe1l]

Originally Posted by velocity90

Why the transmittor points at -104 104? The YGE will calibrate its range to the input so -100 100 will be the same.

Im sorry guys, but I think you will need to see a hobbywing or scorpion esc in action to see how bad the auto bailout of the YGE really is. If its enough for you, fine, but it isnt functioning the way Vbar intents it to.

Fredrik even practises total bladestops with the bailout. Try that with your YGE. I have ordered the new Scorpion Commander V after not being able to practice autos last season.

At 3:00 you can hear the switch, within 2 secs theres hover rpm. Nowhere near YGE's 3 to 4 seconds. It takes 2.5 seconds on the YGE for the rpm to even start raising.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf3SwbKOPZw

Enjoy your scorpion.i'm sure it will do everything perfect...lol. If you dismiss what I and others are trying to tell you or suggest then so be it.......I'm not surprised people haven't posted videos of Auto-bailout with there YGE..considering what it entails....and more important your response.

Extending endpoints increases throttle resolution....i have a much longer explanation but i dont see the point as you dont believe anyone anyway.

[Mystic3D]

Originally Posted by velocity90

Why the transmittor points at -104 104? The YGE will calibrate its range to the input so -100 100 will be the same.

Im sorry guys, but I think you will need to see a hobbywing or scorpion esc in action to see how bad the auto bailout of the YGE really is. If its enough for you, fine, but it isnt functioning the way Vbar intents it to.

Fredrik even practises total bladestops with the bailout. Try that with your YGE. I have ordered the new Scorpion Commander V after not being able to practice autos last season.

At 3:00 you can hear the switch, within 2 secs theres hover rpm. Nowhere near YGE's 3 to 4 seconds. It takes 2.5 seconds on the YGE for the rpm to even start raising.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf3SwbKOPZw

Awesome, so now we know the problem, too slow. I bet you tried Plane Fast, so it might have something to do with startup power which is always going to be enabled.

I suspect bailout has to be designed into the ESC, I.E. if above 10% throttle, start fast.


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[brain]

Velocity,
I dont know what you and your friend are setting on the YGE, but for me (as well as some one like snemi00), YGE autobailout has worked well. Nothing is perfect, but at least it is enough for me to control the heli with stop-blade autorotation, or another extra-performance....I think if you have not been satisfied with YGE you can go with other branch, don't force the people to prove something,.... we are just the man like you, not YGE 's employee.

[brain]

Originally Posted by joe1l

Can you guys who are having luck with Autobailout post which TX, Motor, ESC and the following YGE settings Timing,PWM, Gov Start/Response (heli mid + plane fast) etc

-me, DX7, YGE 120hv with Timing auto, PWM 12, start up 2%, heli mid+plane fast, -104, 96 throttle in Gov II tab with Hyperion 4035 500 kv.
-Last Sunday, tried to Hacker A50 L 470 kv Turnado, Timing 12, PWM 10, start up 2%, Heli mid+plane fast, -104, 94 throttle in Gov II.
-Both are stable, Autobailout works well.
-I will try plane fast+plane fast on this week for my experience and general perspective about YGE.

[velocity90]

Originally Posted by joe1l

Enjoy your scorpion.i'm sure it will do everything perfect...lol. If you dismiss what I and others are trying to tell you or suggest then so be it.......I'm not surprised people haven't posted videos of Auto-bailout with there YGE..considering what it entails....and more important your response.

Extending endpoints increases throttle resolution....i have a much longer explanation but i dont see the point as you dont believe anyone anyway.

Think what you want about me not believing you. We tried it all, also your -110 110, not on the bench but on the field, no differance whats so ever. Also theres no extra resolution. Check the esc input on the vbar screen. Still the same values.

Tried every spoolup mode, pwm, timing, there is and get nowhere near the intended bailout. It works but takes way to long to spoolup. According to YGE this can also be the same delay you get when going from normal to idle1.

If its enough for you, fine, for me its unusable.

[Clarence Creer]

I am not here to argue, but I must say that bail out works absolutely perfect on my setup. I am using the YGE 160HV vbar ready, Scorpion 4525-520 LE, and vbar. My spoolup is every bit as fast as when I was using the Hobbywing.