Autorotations - The final frontier

[felborn]

Right, I'm one of those guys who learned piroflips before I attempted autorotations. The last few months I have been stepping up my game and figure it was time to tackle them as well. Everything works as a charme on Phoenix sim, I have no problems doing inverted auto's and even a few piroflipping auto's can be done on a good day.

Outdoors tho, it's a very different story. Last nigth was the same story again, only 12 flights after my last rebuild I come down to fast, and choppes the boom in two, blades, TT, tailboom, blades and a few extras in order for my 600EFL Pro now

Earlier this year I had a very small tip over on my 550, but the servo pulled so much current the Align ESC/BEC burned up and figured it would treat all my electronics to 22V as it's last act on this earth... All the electronics where fried. I must also have gone true about 10 sets of tailblades, a few skidds for my Goblin and quite a few TT gears, tubes and tailbooms.

I stared doing auto' in the hope they would save me money in the long run for unexpected auto's, but at this point I could soon fund a new Goblin for the amount I spent on crash parts. I'm practising on Phoenix, and I'm not sure if thats helpfull or not, as the hangtime there is about 3-4 times the hangtime I'm getting outdoors. Also, having a very narrow small field to land on is a secondary field.

Anyways, seems auto's are proving to be my achilles heel!

[Carapau]

I think you are rushing these by the sounds of things. Start by doing slow autos ie by keeping the heli's decent rate low. If need be do it immediately above you so you don't have the pucker factor of getting it into a small landing area. Once you are comfortable with these then start with the helicopter further out and before you know it you will be auto-ing fine.

For what it's worth I started autos on my Trex 450 pro. Not as mad as it sounds. Yes timing of the flare is critical (especially if no wind) but if you mess up the 450 will bounce and less maybe a bent link rod 99.9% of the time I have been able to pick it up and fly it straight away. If I mess up an auto on my 600, well it's time to get the wallet out.

[hANDYman]

Have you tried on your 450 yet? Much cheaper if you do pack it in hard, much less likely to do a lot of damage due to the light weight, and if you can auto a 450, anything bigger should be easier. I started doing auto's on my 450 this summer, and haven't done any major damage yet.

[JustinS]

install an esc that has the Auto Bailout function, helps to perfect autos fast.

[gtrsteele]

Originally Posted by JustinS

install an esc that has the Auto Bailout function, helps to perfect autos fast.

How does the ESC help the heli to auto?

[sgrim80]

If you don't like how you are coming in you can bailout and re-spoolup quickly.

[joliecoeur13]

try it out with your Goblin you will have a lot more float , some helis auto just like a brick ....

[markb]

Dont get psyched out by autos! On a large heli, they're NOT that hard. For me, it was more a matter of nerves than anything else, but I can do them very consistently now, even with my 450.

You have to keep the negative pitch in and a constant descent going, and resist the temptation to add pitch to slow it down. Right up until the flare. With my 600, I start to flare around 50-60 feet up when doing a fairly steep descent. Lower when doing a flatter faster forward descent. Then, at the flare, don't just JAM collective!!! Gradually advance it. Thats KEY.

When you have a rapid descent rate, or forward speed (and you should have one or both when you start to flare), and you move the collective from a lot of negative pitch to a smaller negative pitch, the rotor is accelerated. If you just jam it up to 0 or positive pitch, it will slow down REALLY fast. Those few moments when you have just a little negative pitch are crucial. So work on a smooth advance of collective.

In a descent the air is flowing up through the rotor. Even though you have negative pitch, the upward flow makes the blades angle of attack into the air flow positive, so they generate positive lift. BUT, the negative pitch tips the lift vector forward, and that forward part of the lift pulls the blades around. This is what lets you maintain head speed during the descent. With positive pitch, the lift vector is tipped back, producing "induced drag"... When you gradually advance the pitch at flare - the airflow upward through the rotor is still fast, but now with the less-negative pitch, the blades have higher angle of attack and produce more lift. And pull the rotor around faster. But if you pass right through that zone of small negative pitch, into positive pitch... the lift vector is tipped BACK. making drag. And the blades will slow down quick!

For practice, I suggest doing auto-like descents under full power. Set up an idle up curve with moderate to low head speed.
Go up high, put it in a rapid descent with the disc level. You DONT want to dive during an auto. Keep the disc level and the air flowing up through it to sustain head speed. In your power on practices - try to flare smoothly, with a nice gradual transition from 1/2 stick negative pitch up to zero pitch. When you pass through 0 pitch, you want to be around 10-15 feet up, and still descending slowly. As you gradually add collective, you should hear the head speed increase. Even with power on. Maybe not if you run a screaming head speed to start with, but with a low to moderate HS, you should easily get a noticeable rev up when you advance collective.

Once you can consistently do a power on, flat disc rapid descent from up high, flare and consistently hear the rev up, and pass through zero pitch around 10-15 feet high, and come to a hover at 3 feet... you're ready. Just do the same thing with power off.

[SamCassidy]

Originally Posted by markb

Dont get psyched out by autos! On a large heli, they're NOT that hard. For me, it was more a matter of nerves than anything else, but I can do them very consistently now, even with my 450.

You have to keep the negative pitch in and a constant descent going, and resist the temptation to add pitch to slow it down. Right up until the flare. With my 600, I start to flare around 50-60 feet up when doing a fairly steep descent. Lower when doing a flatter faster forward descent. Then, at the flare, don't just JAM collective!!! Gradually advance it. Thats KEY.

When you have a rapid descent rate, or forward speed (and you should have one or both when you start to flare), and you move the collective from a lot of negative pitch to a smaller negative pitch, the rotor is accelerated. If you just jam it up to 0 or positive pitch, it will slow down REALLY fast. Those few moments when you have just a little negative pitch are crucial. So work on a smooth advance of collective.

In a descent the air is flowing up through the rotor. Even though you have negative pitch, the upward flow makes the blades angle of attack into the air flow positive, so they generate positive lift. BUT, the negative pitch tips the lift vector forward, and that forward part of the lift pulls the blades around. This is what lets you maintain head speed during the descent. With positive pitch, the lift vector is tipped back, producing "induced drag"... When you gradually advance the pitch at flare - the airflow upward through the rotor is still fast, but now with the less-negative pitch, the blades have higher angle of attack and produce more lift. And pull the rotor around faster. But if you pass right through that zone of small negative pitch, into positive pitch... the lift vector is tipped BACK. making drag. And the blades will slow down quick!

For practice, I suggest doing auto-like descents under full power. Set up an idle up curve with moderate to low head speed.
Go up high, put it in a rapid descent with the disc level. You DONT want to dive during an auto. Keep the disc level and the air flowing up through it to sustain head speed. In your power on practices - try to flare smoothly, with a nice gradual transition from 1/2 stick negative pitch up to zero pitch. When you pass through 0 pitch, you want to be around 10-15 feet up, and still descending slowly. As you gradually add collective, you should hear the head speed increase. Even with power on. Maybe not if you run a screaming head speed to start with, but with a low to moderate HS, you should easily get a noticeable rev up when you advance collective.

Once you can consistently do a power on, flat disc rapid descent from up high, flare and consistently hear the rev up, and pass through zero pitch around 10-15 feet high, and come to a hover at 3 feet... you're ready. Just do the same thing with power off.

I was just trying to process what that would 'feel' like on my 500 pro.... sounds scary as hell. But awesome tutorial and explanation, +1!

[Digger1973]

I have been practising them on my mini titan. Nervous does not describe the first time I cut the power 70 feet up. But out of 8 attempts I only managed to break one set of landing gear so far. Looking forward to getting the new ones in just to master it.

Phoenix did help me a lot learning to flare it at the end though so keep practising and good luck.

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

[aclysma]

Bear in mind that any crash when attempting an auto is probably going to be very minor. Your headspeed will be extremely low, you'll land right side up, and you're not going to be going too fast.

So my advice for learning autos is to not let it be too big of a deal. You have physics on your side. Your first couple autos will be scary, and at some point you may crash because you let the head speed slow down too much. But I assure you, a few bad autos will be much cheaper than a few crashes caused by technical failures.

For reference I did my first auto with a protos 500. Of the 40 or so first autos I think I damaged parts once or twice (Stupid stuff like breaking servo horns). And a protos 500 is not an easy heli to auto. I think you'll be fine.

It may be helpful to have someone who you know can auto well watch you and advise you on more/less negative pitch. I once helped someone do an auto and literally reached over and pushed the pitch stick down when head speed started to drop. Yes, it landed fine. The margin of error for an auto is actually quite large - such that if you have a buddy you'll be able to get it down. It's just the intimidation factor. Watch someone's hands when they do an auto and you'll see just how easy it is. Have someone coach you through doing it and again, you'll see how easy it is. It's all about getting over the intimidation. If you can do it on the sim 10 times in a row, then go outside, suck it up, and do it!

[abanihani]

Originally Posted by aclysma

Bear in mind that any crash when attempting an auto is probably going to be very minor. Your headspeed will be extremely low, you'll land right side up, and you're not going to be going too fast.

So my advice for learning autos is to not let it be too big of a deal. You have physics on your side. Your first couple autos will be scary, and at some point you may crash because you let the head speed slow down too much. But I assure you, a few bad autos will be much cheaper than a few crashes caused by technical failures.

For reference I did my first auto with a protos 500. Of the 40 or so first autos I think I damaged parts once or twice (Stupid stuff like breaking servo horns). And a protos 500 is not an easy heli to auto. I think you'll be fine.

It may be helpful to have someone who you know can auto well watch you and advise you on more/less negative pitch. I once helped someone do an auto and literally reached over and pushed the pitch stick down when head speed started to drop. Yes, it landed fine. The margin of error for an auto is actually quite large - such that if you have a buddy you'll be able to get it down. It's just the intimidation factor. Watch someone's hands when they do an auto and you'll see just how easy it is. Have someone coach you through doing it and again, you'll see how easy it is. It's all about getting over the intimidation. If you can do it on the sim 10 times in a row, then go outside, suck it up, and do it!

Totally agree with you, I finally tried my first Auto on logo 600 last weekend after i had a pro check my setup to make sure all is well. He performed the first one and then I did my first, i was so scared but landed perfectly nose in. It really felt better than the sim. I went ahead and did 4 more successful ones and on my last one i got so confident that i flared sooner than i should, the heli had a hard landing and i broke the nylon screws that hold the skids and bent one servo arm, thats all. Cost was less than $5. I will continue to do them until i feel on control without fear.

[aclysma]

Originally Posted by abanihani

Totally agree with you, I finally tried my first Auto on logo 600 last weekend after i had a pro check my setup to make sure all is well. He performed the first one and then I did my first, i was so scared but landed perfectly nose in. It really felt better than the sim. I went ahead and did 4 more successful ones and on my last one i got so confident that i flared sooner than i should, the heli had a hard landing and i broke the nylon screws that hold the skids and bent one servo arm, thats all. Cost was less than $5. I will continue to do them until i feel on control without fear.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the sense of accomplishment was worth $5.

WAY TO GO!!!

[JohnnyK]

Autos are the one maneuver that pays dividends in saved crash cost and they are fun too. I do at least 40 to 50 autos every day I fly. When I get near the bottom of the tank I start doing autos. Being able to auto well has probably saved me at least fifteen crashes over my flying career. Two in the last three weeks! Most people I see doing autos for the first time seem to try and come down way too slow and kill their head speed to early. I usually recommend trying them at a foot or so off the ground and try to hold the heli in the air until you have to set it down. That way they get used to how the heli will feel and sound at really low head speed. After that take it of 50 feet and with a little foward speed into the wind hit hold and bring it down at a 45 ~ 60 degree angle with the disc level. To bleed off forward speed lift the nose a little. It also a good idea to make sure that if you bail out of the auto that the engine won't try go from idle to full speed instantly. Run the blade bolts on the tight side if it does spool up rather fast.

And on a FBL heli go to full negative right after touch down to prevent a possible tipover.

Good luck
John

[rc-bender]

I learned on my 450X over tall grass. After dozens and dozens of grass "landings" I didn't break anything. Once I felt pretty good about it I started doing them on pavement and didn't worry about the flare, but landed more like a plane with a sliding stop. The 450X skids don't have rubber grommets on them so it slides nicely. Once I got confortable with that then I worked on the flare to touch down with a verticle landing. Even botched landings on pavement I didn't break anything most of the time.

After getting good on the 450 my 600 is quite easy. The only adjustment I had to make was that the 600 didn't need as much forward speed and doesn't need as much flare, which makes it just that much easier.

[banditpowdercoat]

Well, Auto practice just saved me. About 60' up, my 450 felt really funny. Pitch up/down causing a roll. It's getting further away, I decide to ditch. Hit TH, and Auto, except I need to add Cyclic with te pitch to keep her level, Managed to get her down, only damage was bent boom at frame and stripped gear. Looks like a HS 65 Servo fried. Smell that smell. Not even blade damage. Nothin to my Canomod canopy either. Yayy Auto practice.

NOw, what good servos to get for a FBL 450?

[aclysma]

I've run hs5065s, ds285s, and ds95s. They all felt fine although the ds285s are a bit slow and weak by today's standards if I'm not mistaken. The ds95s are pretty much the best money can buy and the 5065s are a great sweet spot.

[Luigi_tuga]

I started making my first ones yesterday, after the motor on my trex 500 shut down making very high speed passes, weird, telemetry shown two frames lost...
That auto wasn't very successful and it hit the very soft floor quite hard, flipped over two or three times, and i thought: finally i crashed this heli (never crashed) after hundreds of flights.
Walked the 150 meters to the heli everything seemed perfect, except the front landing gear broke one one side. Spooled the heli in low rpm, no vibs, lift off, medium rpm, high rpm, perfect I thought: what a strong heli, not even the canopy got any scratch or crack
I've spent the rest of the pack doing auto's coming at medium speed from 8/9 mts height, most of the sucessfull, with a few flips on touch down but the heli stills perfect.
Changed the front landing gear. Now i'm really going to learn and perfect this move, it is very important and one more adrenaline kicker
The field where i fly is soft sand with short/medium weeds, and despite the messy dust, it looks to be the perfect spot to learn autos, and that T500 is quite tough.
My advice is go for it, but some cheap blades, be sure to have some parts (mostly landing gears) if anything goes wrong, and choose a belt heli if you can

[banditpowdercoat]

Haha ya. If you can half ass auto a belt 450 the. Anything else a cake walk!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Luigi_tuga]

Just came from the field, flown 4 packs on the 500 doing only and only...you know what...autos
I even had planned to use the first two minutes of each lipo doing 3D, change lipo and in the end of the session, use the remaining power of the lipos till telemetry rings...but it didn't worked that way, only autos
Did some quite high, some were not fancy at all but some came out very very stylish
Final outcome: My carbon tail blades aren't that shiny any more and i've a dusty heli to clean, no helis were harmed