Motor driven tail mod?

[CalRotor]

Okay, so a motor driven tail is a pita and most folks want a tt or shaft driven tail. But, for the mass of pilots that are not 3d masters, it might make sense from a durability standpoint to have a motor driven tail. If you don't like the idea, okay, go read another post. But, with a bl tail (co5 tail motor?) it could be a lot more durable and probably provide all the hold most guys will use. This might sound better after everyone has stripped their gears and replacements are seriously backordered. Plus, if you convert early, you could always put the stock tail on later as you learn more advanced moves. I haven't looked at the 130 to see how this might work, but anyone else thinking the same thing yet?

[Liduno]

Originally Posted by CalRotor

Okay, so a motor driven tail is a pita and most folks want a tt or shaft driven tail. But, for the mass of pilots that are not 3d masters, it might make sense from a durability standpoint to have a motor driven tail. If you don't like the idea, okay, go read another post. But, with a bl tail (co5 tail motor?) it could be a lot more durable and probably provide all the hold most guys will use. This might sound better after everyone has stripped their gears and replacements are seriously backordered. Plus, if you convert early, you could always put the stock tail on later as you learn more advanced moves. I haven't looked at the 130 to see how this might work, but anyone else thinking the same thing yet?

If it had a motor driven tail the left prios would be strange just like all the other motor driven tails, with a shaft driven tail you get thrust from the tail rotor in both directions.

Now if it had 2 brushless tail motors and two props it would get thrust in both directions but I think that might be over kill.

I guess you could have a single brushless tail motor with pitch control on the tail blade and a small belt drive but if they were going to do that they could have just made it belt drive in the first place.

[benboy207]

I don't get this, it sounds like you are trying to make an mcp x... It's not worth the time installing an esc, and getting it all to work when you are just downgrading the helicopter. If you want a more durable heli then get an mcp x.

[BurritoSnake]

Originally Posted by benboy207

I don't get this, it sounds like you are trying to make an mcp x... It's not worth the time installing an esc, and getting it all to work when you are just downgrading the helicopter. If you want a more durable heli then get an mcp x.

+1 This is just a horrible idea unless OP is joking, don't mean to be rude.

The whole point of this heli is for the brushless motor and tt tail, also I already made a thread on durability... its called don't worry about it or this heli isn't for you.

Next someone is gonna want a brushed fixed pitch 130x and call it the 130sr.. its 10 more then the 120sr! Sorry.

[litehawkdown]

[mCP_X]

Hi
If we could flash a Castle Creations Pixie 7 ESC , we could convert the main over to a brushed motor too

Someone suggested a wrought iron frame mod , and i have been thinking a hand blown glass canopy would be the coolest

maybe cut down the blades and reduce the AUW to about 50 grams ... Oh , never mind

[Griff1]

I think the Op means to drive the TT or output shaft with a seperate motor, interesting idea you probably missed due to the loud mocking noise in here.

It may well come to this if we have the supply issues we,ve had with the mcpx and other HH items.

[David Eichstedt]

Yeah, we can also make a flybar rotor head and disable the gyros!

Wait a minute, hasn't Walkera already been through this feature set? LOL!


(Yeah, that's maybe a little snarkier than it should be, but, oh well)

[koko76]

Originally Posted by Griff1

I think the Op means to drive the TT or output shaft with a seperate motor, interesting idea you probably missed due to the loud mocking noise in here.

It may well come to this if we have the supply issues we,ve had with the mcpx and other HH items.

No, it's pretty clear that's not what he meant, and what would be the point of that? Adding another motor to the existing variable pitch setup would add more points of failure, more cost, more weight, and solve none of the issues mentioned in this thread or others.
Tail gear sets (the gears on the tail) are $3.79 in multipacks. How many of those will it take to add up the cost of a motor, ESC, whatever method you use to convert the servo signal. It just doesn't make sense.

[Mojappa]

It's even said but to reiterate, if you are depending on mCP style durability keep flying the mCP until you're not crashing so much. This is an advanced heli ideal for skilled pilots, it is what it is. Keep practicing.

[CalRotor]

Haha, but my question was not a joke. My solution is not well thought out (I admitted as much in the post), but the real problem is this: The tail, and lack of replacement parts, looks to be the achilles heal of this heli. Many guys would trade performance for durability. (Just like the mcpx landing gear was out of stock for a long time. How funny would it have been to say in advance, "hey, you why don't you just make landing gear out of an old platic bottle? Or some music wire." Or, "just make a canopy out of some paper." Sounds real funny until you're desperate to fly.)

How many months do you want to wait for HH to build up the right amount of replacement parts? History is our guide here, even if HH ignores it. The other reality is, and it might not be true for the average HF member, is that a lot of guys will not be able to fly their 130 without crashing (gasp!). I can fly upright or inverted, forward, backward (okay, backward inverted is a little weak), flip, roll, etc., without crashing, but then then I have to fly conservatively. That means higher up, less fun, less learning. Yeah, I've improved a lot flying / crashing the MCPx. I've left the 450 sitting on the shelf b/c flying conservative flying is not really that fun for me. That and the park is next door and the 450 isn't the best park flyer. I would rather fly more aggressively, not crashing every pack, but, let's say with the 130, maybe crashing every 3rd pack. Somewhere between mcpx and 450 (well, way toward the mcpx side).

IF HH has tail parts in stock for $3-5, I'll just buy 6 sets and have a good supply. If that comes to pass, I won't grumble. Even at $10-$15 per crash, not really that bad. But it's not really economics that's probably going to be the problem, it will be supply in the early days.

Even in some of the videos of HH sponsored pilots, they "crash" (that is, have unplanned landings). They can get parts, but I don't think you and I will be able to get them in any quantity. Let's wait until everyone buys their 130s. May be a surprise to you (not you HH), but a whole lot of buyers will not be "pros," but guys that cant fly without crashing. Then, let the snarky comments fly about $3-4 parts that HH cannot keep in stock. HH can weigh in with their snarky comments. HH, I like your stuff, but if your design has an achilles heel, you market the heli to non-pros, and then don't stock the achilles heal part in serious quantity, including to account for some hoarding due to previous experience- bad on you. I know that there's a price to pay for the tail's performance, and that the tail is a lot better than motor driven. And I wouldn't suggest that HH ever build a 130 with a motor driven tail. But, for some, a more durable tail, for less performance, would still be a good mod.

I'll revive this thread again after the 130 has been out and HH is out of tail parts. I'm certainly not going to be happy about it, that's why I'm thinking about it in advance.

Okay, next questions: (1) can we just put on a nice 120 motor driven tail? (2) could we put the nice 120 main rotor on the 130 so it's not symetrical that would give me more upright lift so I could learn to hover my 130?

Have a good day guys.

[LogoFreak]

To the OP... Not saying you personally ever complained but this is a bit ridiculous. First everyone complains about motor driven tail rotors, now you complain that the tail is shaft driven? I say stop complaining and just fly!

[Mojappa]

If you're going to be learning to hover with your 130 then don't get a 130. If you're worried about tail parts being unavailable then don't get a 130 (unless you can fly conservatively enough to not trash the three sets you get with it). Otherwise I think people that can fly proficiently (their target market BTW) will enjoy the hell out of this little due to its capability, not relyin in crashability. There is a reason they have the Pilot Level for this heli listed as Advanced.

Seriously though, we have all (well, those of us who've been into it for a while now) seen the early parts shortages with new releases, it's pretty much expected. Between people hoarding in fear of shortages and people breaking stuff at unforeseen rates it's really hard to have a worldwide supply out the gate with the heli.

[BurritoSnake]

Originally Posted by CalRotor

Haha, but my question was not a joke. My solution is not well thought out (I admitted as much in the post), but the real problem is this: The tail, and lack of replacement parts, looks to be the achilles heal of this heli. Many guys would trade performance for durability. (Just like the mcpx landing gear was out of stock for a long time. How funny would it have been to say in advance, "hey, you why don't you just make landing gear out of an old platic bottle? Or some music wire." Or, "just make a canopy out of some paper." Sounds real funny until you're desperate to fly.)

How many months do you want to wait for HH to build up the right amount of replacement parts? History is our guide here, even if HH ignores it. The other reality is, and it might not be true for the average HF member, is that a lot of guys will not be able to fly their 130 without crashing (gasp!). I can fly upright or inverted, forward, backward (okay, backward inverted is a little weak), flip, roll, etc., without crashing, but then then I have to fly conservatively. That means higher up, less fun, less learning. Yeah, I've improved a lot flying / crashing the MCPx. I've left the 450 sitting on the shelf b/c flying conservative flying is not really that fun for me. That and the park is next door and the 450 isn't the best park flyer. I would rather fly more aggressively, not crashing every pack, but, let's say with the 130, maybe crashing every 3rd pack. Somewhere between mcpx and 450 (well, way toward the mcpx side).

Those aren't downgrades like a motor tail would be for the 130x...

Also they said that they will have plenty of parts for the new helis being released... this is one reason that I've heard of why the 300x kept being pushed back.

Originally Posted by CalRotor

I'll revive this thread again after the 130 has been out and HH is out of tail parts. I'm certainly not going to be happy about it, that's why I'm thinking about it in advance.

You'll get the same response even if the tail parts are out because I'm pretty sure no one will buy this just to downgrade when they cant fly it when they could just buy a mcpx.

Answer to your questions:

1. No, your crazy.
2. Hover, didn't you just say you could hover inverted? Or what do you mean..?
...
Wait did you just say replace the 120 brushed motor with the 130x brushless motor? That has to be a joke right........

There is worrying and there is complaining... I'm seeing you as a complainer right now.
Dont mean to be rude but...
STOP COMPLAINING. and don't get it.

Have a nice day to!

[Mojappa]

Also, just to put it out there, where do you propose to ply in said tail motor?

[koko76]

So instead of flying conservatively because you can tell they are out of stock on the replacement parts you'd insist on the ability to crash every 3rd pack and be ok? That flat out doesn't make sense. Fly the heli you know crashes well to learn stuff. If it's that much of an issue don't be an early adopter, wait until you can get parts then get your heli.

[Ampdraw]

You could do a DDVP tail
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1254555 but the complexity is not for the inexperienced.

DD motor tail will be a waste of time imo. Sourcing a suitable tail motor and prop will be the easy part. Sourcing a suitably fast esc, tieing it in to the tail servo signal and getting it to talk nicely with the all in one will take alot of skill and probably a bunch of esc testing. May even take custom code. Not for the feint hearted.

Probably be easier to take a mcpx brushless and stretch it to 130 but then you may have gain issues. I tried to stretch one using Walkera 120 blades and I got very bad cyclic bobble.

Modding helis well beyond their design just isn't a good idea. Too many things crop up that are unexpected. One example that comes to mind is the many that struggle just sorting out vibe symptoms when they throw a sr120 tail on a high power bl mcpx.

Amp

[CalRotor]

[QUOTE=BurritoSnake;3886141]

Answer to your questions:

1. No, your crazy.
2. Hover, didn't you just say you could hover inverted? Or what do you mean..?

Hey Mr. Burrito, you might not have realized it, but this guy - - is the way of saying I'm joking. Did you notice a little guy at the end of my 2 questions? I'll spell it out, I was JOKING about those two questions, but you apparently bit hook, line, and sinker. You're taking this all to seriously. It's not religion, chillax man.

[BurritoSnake]

Originally Posted by CalRotor

Answer to your questions:

1. No, your crazy.
2. Hover, didn't you just say you could hover inverted? Or what do you mean..?

Hey Mr. Burrito, you might not have realized it, but this guy - - is the way of saying I'm joking. Did you notice a little guy at the end of my 2 questions? I'll spell it out, I was JOKING about those two questions, but you apparently bit hook, line, and sinker. You're taking this all to seriously. It's not religion, chillax man.

My bad, and no its not that I'm taking it seriously its that I personnally think its crazy that someone brought it up... I can see how other threads appeared about upgrading the motor n what not but downgrades are just...

Also the reason why I thought you might not be joking is cause of this:

Originally Posted by CalRotor

Haha, but my question was not a joke.

[Ampdraw]

Way to waste people's time Calrotor.

Next time when you're writing a "joke" just so people can't misinterpret it...perhaps make it funny!

Amp