Maybe Wrong Heli

[erdocdan]

I have read most of the 600 Pro threads and I think I might have more heli then I need. I learned a lot about head speeds, setups, blowouts and mods but I hope this doesn't apply to this newbie. Most of the threads refer to the FBL model which I did not buy cause on the sim they feel un-natural and too locked in. They defy gravity and to me for "normal" flying are not fluid and seem jerky like a robot and require too much stick work to make smooth coordinated maneuvers. That said I'm tired of the pendulum effect of a 45 degree flybar. Frankly I never see myself doing 3D and would like to stick with stuff you could survive in a full scale. If you were a Sabo copilot in a full scale you may as well save fuel and just stick your head in a paint shaker.
I am about to install the electronics and setup and would like to know if I should stick to the manual or set tamer head speed and any other thoughts.

[rknaub]

Im pretty new at this too, and for the same reasons, opted for the flybare model. I figure I could grow into it, and convert to fbl in the future if I felt the need.

My first few flights were used without the castle governor, then I change it to about 1850 for the next flight, it was a lot quieter, and felt a lot... softer... in the air. I liked the increased flight time, but was disappointed that the lawnmower on steroids effect was gone. Cranked it up to 2200, pretty happy with it again, but definitely a lot snappier, chances are after a few more flights I will go back to the 1800 range.

[BlackTitanium]

You shouldn't base FBL on the sim, it's usually too stick sensitive. I always tweak the sim parameters to make the heli fly the way I like it to feel.

However the "too locked in feeling" is what I like about FBL, you don't have to correct for the flybar. The heli flies the way you command it to fly without having to make corrections for rotor torque, inertia and wind.


"Scale flying" is achieved by a combination of pilot skill, and radio settings, i.e., Expo, Dual Rates, Collective Pitch and Head Speed.

Expo = This parameter is used to tune the Cyclic stick and Rudder sensitivity.
By making the Cyclic control stick less sensitive, at mid stick, it is much easier to fly in a smooth, controlled manner.
0 = Is the default setting, for Aileron, Elevator and Rudder.
For example, I start with a setting of +30, and then fine tune from there.

Dual Rates = This parameter is used to tune the rate of speed that heli maneuvers in the Pitch, Roll, and Yaw axis.
Slowing down the Elevator, Aileron and Rudder rate will make the heli move slower, when you pitch, roll and yaw the heli.
100 = Is the default setting, for Aileron, Elevator and Rudder.
For example, I start with a setting of 75%, and then fine tune from there.

Collective Pitch: Too high of a Pitch setting, will make the heli feel over sensitive & jumpy. Too low of a pitch setting will make the heli feel heavy and sluggish.

Head Speed: Using Throttle Curves or Governor Mode, it is most important that you set up your heli to maintain a constant head speed throughout the collective pitch range. If your heli is set up with a linear throttle, your head speed will constantly vary, making your heli fell really jumpy and difficult to control.

[daran0815]

No real heli is as precise as the sim. And flying the real thing you will have your hands plenty full, even if a FL system helps. I just had a go at an FB heli (600pro) after learning on an FL machine (500esp/beastx). I'd heavily recommend an FL machine for any beginner.

+ more reaction time in slow maneuvers as there is no flybar drifting around
+ less confusion about whether you steered wrong or the flybar is leaning into the wind
+ you get more stick time as there is no wind resistance from the flybar

While some experts prefer FB systems (more "alive"), all beginner/intermediate pilots I know prefer FL.

[Gadflyii]

To me, the fbl real helicopters fly like the fb helicopters is the sim.

However if this is your first cp, you might want to think about a smaller, much cheaper to repair helicopter....

I always recommend the mcpx and walkera v120d02 or m120d01

Small, safe, cheap and easy to repair.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

[kelseh]

Only problem with learning on a FBL helicopter is that you won't learn you fine tune controls as fast as you will learn on a FB helicopter. Since it looks like the future will weed out the FB heli's, it shouldn't matter much anyways. It comes down to what you want. If I had to learn it all over again I would learn on a flybarred machine to become a better pilot in a shorter period of time. I am curious why you bought such a powerfull machine if it sound like you want to go more of the scale side of this hobby. I think you will like the extra power the more comfortable you get. Fast foward flying is adicting in my opinion. You may never want to do 3d but sport flying is a breeze. Simple rolls and flips become natural with some stick time put in on the sim.

[erdocdan]

I have been waiting forever for my Blade 450 (came today finally) and I saw the 600E Pro Combo on Ebay with no bids at $799 (cheaper now) and read many opinions that the bigger birds are easier to learn so in 5 days I was the only bid and I owned it. Just back into RC after a 30 year layover. Never flew helis untill last November. Use to fly fixed wing with lots off dihedral which fly like the FB helis. They come out of a turn and find equilibrium. You don't have to concentrate so much. I progressed MCX2, 120 SR, MCPX plus trying to stay disciplined on Phoenix without to much horse play. The MCPX is like a hummingbird on crack and hard for these old eyeballs to see but was my first CP and take a crash well. When I completed the head on the 600 I looked at it and said " your #@*!# me" There is alot going on there and I would guess if it just fell over with those head speeds it won't be pretty. That's why I would like to be in the ballpark with setup. I don't want to get in the loop of change settings...test...sweep it up...wait for parts and a day off to rebuild....change settings........
You guys are probably right and I will in a year or so be bored and want to try some sport flying. Don't get me wrong I have the utmost respect for you 3D just off the deck guys. How you do it and maintain orientation even with a perfect setup escapes me. Must take alot of sim time. There are not alot of heli pilots around our field and the only one at the Hobby shop works only Sundays so I'm kind of on my own except HF.

[erdocdan]

Off the subject this was my first build. I found the instructions some what hard to follow because there was no narrative. Just a diagram surrounded by boxes with sometimes poorly translated English. I wish there was comprehensive explanations of the assembly as well as the purpose for some of the parts. The pre-assembled items like the head and tail gear box I checked but did not completely disassemble. Also I never opened the grease supplied cause the thrust bearings looked like they had grease. What about the tail and main gears and main shaft bearings? Do they need grease or oil?

[BlackTitanium]

Originally Posted by erdocdan

Off the subject this was my first build. I found the instructions some what hard to follow because there was no narrative. Just a diagram surrounded by boxes with sometimes poorly translated English. I wish there was comprehensive explanations of the assembly as well as the purpose for some of the parts. The pre-assembled items like the head and tail gear box I checked but did not completely disassemble. Also I never opened the grease supplied cause the thrust bearings looked like they had grease. What about the tail and main gears and main shaft bearings? Do they need grease or oil?

The thrust bearings were installed incorrectly in my rotor head!
Both the head and tail had a small amount of grease.
You need to add more grease to both head and tail thrust bearings, and make sure that they are installed in the correct orientation.

[erdocdan]

Thanks BT I'll take em apart then I'll know for sure. And thank you for the setup advice. I think I understand expo, rates, and P&C curves but I will just have to take it easy till I find the sweet spots for me. This governor thing I'm not sure about. I am guessing this is why you need a 7th channel? How does using a governor affect your throttle curve settings and should I set it up?

[daran0815]

Originally Posted by erdocdan

This governor thing I'm not sure about. I am guessing this is why you need a 7th channel?

No. Your average electric gov uses the throttle channel to adjust the desired headspeed.

Originally Posted by erdocdan

How does using a governor affect your throttle curve settings and should I set it up?

You use flat throttle curves. Setting it up is explained in many threads and videos. There some good stuff by finless about setting up the castle creations governor: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=36194

[Funky242]

Originally Posted by erdocdan

Frankly I never see myself doing 3D and would like to stick with stuff you could survive in a full scale.

Then maybe the 600 Pro is not the right choice. Although you can fly about all modern heli's the way you want (3D, F3C or scale style), some are more suitable for one or another style.

The T600Pro needs quite some headspeed to keep the tail holding. The ratio is optimized for headspeeds from 1800 RPM and up.

I used to fly my Logo600 with headspeeds between 1500 RPM for long flights, oriëntation training and stuff, as well as with 2250 RPM for 3D. If you buy a Logo 600SE, and use a set of semi-symmetrical blades like the Spinblades e.g., you could do the flying you want to do @ 1000 RPM or even lower, giving a nice feel and long flight times.

And with the modern FBL systems you can make the heli feel as you want, give it a flybarred feel if you want it. Just soo much more possibilities.