TREX E / ESP FAQ's

[nightflyr]

I should have posted these up front first.....

9, 02:17 PM #12 Finless
Team Taco VP



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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stanton, Ca.



OK up by request here are some Trex 600 manuals

This is the original 600 CF manual when the 600 first came out:
Align Trex600 CF manual (4 Megs)

This is the Trex600 ESP updated with colors, etc by Marilyn Somers:
Align Trex600 ESP updated manual (9 Megs)

Bob
__________________

[nightflyr]

Seems that some wonder if the stock Align 100A ESC is capable of greater than 6S operating voltage,

Hope this will answer the question for you...

Specifications:
Continuous current: 100Amps with proper air flow
Surge current: 135Amps for 15seconds
Supporting motor types: 2 poles to 10+poles in/outrunner brushless motors
Supporting maximum RPM: 2poles=>190,000rpm
Supporting input voltage: 5.5V~25.2V
Supporting battery types: Li-ion/ Li-poly 2~6 cells, Ni-Mh 6-18 cells
Size: 72mm x 28mm x 14mm
Weight: 69g

nightflyr

[Olgierd]

I can see the most popular upgrade of power system is to go with Scorpion HK-4025.

Is the any good explanation which version of this motor is the best for 10S?

I can see people use 740kv, 890kv and 630kv. There is some relation between kv and delivered power. With lover kv this motor is capable of deliver more power.

[nightflyr]

All depending on your gearing to attain your required HS VS. power consumption, a 4025-630 with a 13T pinion will yield you a lower HS ~14-1500 but with a flight time of almost 20 minutes without any 3D, where as a 4025-890 with a 12T will yield 2150 HS with a flight time of 4:30 give or take.

nightflyr

[Olgierd]

If you are looking for good head speed like 2100 you can always find a gear for you motor and number of cells. Like standard ESP setup we have 6s and 1220kv with 14T pinion.

I just wonder which motor is the most efficient one for 10s let's say 40V.
If I pick up 740kv then my calculation is: 740kv * 40 = 29600. 29600/2100 = 14 170/14 = 12T pinion

[nightflyr]

Originally Posted by Olgierd

If you are looking for good head speed like 2100 you can always find a gear for you motor and number of cells. Like standard ESP setup we have 6s and 1220kv with 14T pinion.

I just wonder which motor is the most efficient one for 10s let's say 40V.
If I pick up 740kv then my calculation is: 740kv * 40 = 29600. 29600/2100 = 14 170/14 = 12T pinion

That would start the great debate some would say Scorpion, while others would swear by NEU...ETC.... the answer will be found in research

[jonp]

Of all the posts withing this sticky this particular post, in my opinion is VERY valuable and so I felt the need to quote it in order that it can be repeated.

I have been learning to fly and build helis since January this year, starting with 450s then a 500 and now this monster! WOW.......it is huge!

Many thanks to those who take the time out to take pictures and post such useful information.......A BIG THANKS!

As my own learning curve has developed with the 'smaller' helis I have been in a position on occasion to offer guidance to those with less experience than myself - very satisfying!

Originally Posted by nightflyr

This is the most complete information I could locate on the subject...

Quite a few people have had questions about the ESP head setup, so I wrote this up. I'm no wizard at this (its only my second heli), but this procedure worked well for me. Here's what I did (and the reasoning), I hope it helps:
Basically, I worked from the servos up. I began with the linkage lengths all according to the manual, but most of them ended up significantly different from the manuals settings. Most of them shorter.
Before you start
UNPLUG THE MOTOR. Or otherwise ensure that you cannot accidentally get it powered.
Radio setup
I assume you have the servos connected, the correct swash mixing set up, and set your trims and subtrims to 0.

Program the normal pitch curve to 50,50,50,50,50, and idle up to the usual 0,25,50,75,100. This allows you to work on the head at 0 collective pitch, without being concerned about the stick location. The idle up curve allows you to reach the full range of collective, with the flick of a switch.

From here on, assume the radio is on, and the normal (50%) pitch curve is active. So you're at center stick, 0 pitch.
Servos
Wheel installation
Begin the setup by getting the servos, bellcranks, and their links on correctly. The align 8 hole wheels have a different angle between the spline and each pair of holes. All 8 positions are different! Even a 180 flip of the wheel ends up with a different angle of the holes to the spline. You need to choose the hole pair that lines up the wheel the best. What you're looking for, is the two hole/ball locations that the links attach to are at right angles to the line from the servo shaft to the bellcrank shaft. Install the wheel using the hole pair that are closest to perfectly square, then use subtrim to tweak it the last little bit. It should look something like this.


Bellcrank links
Now you need to set the link length from the servo wheels to the bellcranks. The two front servos are done the same way. Leave one link off, and adjust the other so that the bellcrank is oriented correctly. This picture is fuzzy, but it shows what you're looking for: The elevator servo shaft (rear servo, between the frames), the bellcrank output ball, the bellcrank shaft, and the center of the sighting hole in the frames should all be in a straight line parallel to the top of the frames. Once you have set one of the two link lengths between the servo wheel and the bellcrank, the other one is easy. Just attach the servo end, and adjust the length so that it pops on the bellcrank ball without binding. If you want, you can then verify that the two links are the same length. If you got the servo wheel square and the bellcrank square, they have to be equal.


Elevator arm links
The rear servo is done in a similar fashion. It's just a bit frustrating, because it's hard to reach in there! Leave one link off, and adjust the other such that the elevator arms pivot appears in the center of the sighting hole. When you've got the first link set so the arm is in the correct position, just adjust the other link to fit, like you did with the front servos. Again, you can double check the link lengths to verify they are equal.
This diagram shows the servo and bellcrank links all set up...The angle on the servo wheel looks off, but it should be 90 degrees too.

Head linkages
Swash level
The elevator arm pivot should be centered in the sight hole. This fixes the swash height because the elevator arm has no length adjustment. The only thing you can do, is level the swash at the height set by the elevator arm. Do this by adjusting the two links from the bellcranks. Personally, I like a swash leveling tool that looks like this. It sits on top of the swash.

Pop the swash leveler on, and adjust the length of the links from the two bellcranks so the swash is level. Each leg of the tool should just barely touch the arm on the swash that is supporting it. Of course, the tool requires the upper parts of the head be removed. So while you've got it apart, flip the switch on the radio and move the collective to full up and down. In those positions, adjust the servo endpoints so you have a level swash there as well.

Install head
Put the upper parts of the head on, and put the radio back on normal curve. 0 pitch!

Upper arms
Now, the swash is level and its height is fixed. The flybar seesaw height is also fixed (you can't move the head block)! Consider the long links from the swash to the upper mixing arms (the arms that pivot on the seesaw). You cannot move the hardware at either end of these links up or down. So the next thing to do, is adjust the length of the links from the swash to the upper mixing arms that pivot on the seesaw. Set the links so the upper arms are level. During this step, you must keep the flybar level. I remove the links from the cage down to the lower arms, and put a flybar clamp on, to hold it level. It's easy to make a flybar clamp with a rod and a couple alligator clips. I don't have a picture of this step, but its pretty simple. Just get the upper arms level by adjusting the links from the swash up to the long end of the upper arms (with the flybar level).

Lower arms
The lower arms are next. The "swash driver" links from the lower arms down to the swash plate are fixed length, and should be on. Take one link from a lower arm up to the flybar cage off. And adjust the other link (from the flybar cage to the other lower arm) , until the lower arms (pivoting on the slider) are level. While you're doing this, you have to be sure that the flybar cage is level. This adjustment may require a few iterations, because the slider moves up and down as you adjust the link length. But theres only one right length … when you get it, it should look like this.


Now adjust the link on the other side to match. This ones easier, because the slider height is fixed by the other arm and wont move around. In fact, the arm should be held level with the first one, and all you have to do is set the link length so it pops on. While you're doing this, you still have to be sure that the flybar cage is level. When you're done, the two lower links should be level and line up with each other at both ends. Like this...


Grip links
Finally, you have to set the short links from the upper mixing arms to the blade grips. Again, you have to ensure the flybar cage is level during the adjustment. However you do it, eyeball, pitch gauge, laser beams, electron microscope... the objective is to adjust the links so the blades have zero pitch. You ARE still on the normal curve with 0 pitch right?

Now you can go on to setting up the mixing percentages in your radio, so you get the desired collective and cyclic pitch ranges.

That's it.
Heres another picture of the finished job. The viewpoint is a little bit high in this picture, so the output ball on the bellcrank appears to be above the line of the sight hole/bellcrank shaft/servo shaft... but its not. With the view a bit lower, it's right on line. parallax.

[jonp]

I am fitting 610 servos and notice that the links from the servo wheels to the aeleron levers are not quite straight.

Do I need to fit spacers to move the servos out a little bit or is it considered OK to have a slight angle on the links when using DS610 servos?

Thanks again!

[nightflyr]

Originally Posted by jonp

I am fitting 610 servos and notice that the links from the servo wheels to the aeleron levers are not quite straight.

Do I need to fit spacers to move the servos out a little bit or is it considered OK to have a slight angle on the links when using DS610 servos?

Thanks again!

Posting #23

nightflyr

[jonp]

Originally Posted by nightflyr

Posting #23

nightflyr

I had read that post but they are different servos - I just wondered what folks using the 610s were doing - do they use spacers to straighten out the links? The angle is only small.
It is my understanding that the 610 is the servo that Align had in mind when producing their build manual.

[nightflyr]

Originally Posted by jonp

I had read that post but they are different servos - I just wondered what folks using the 610s were doing - do they use spacers to straighten out the links? The angle is only small.
It is my understanding that the 610 is the servo that Align had in mind when producing their build manual.

A slight angle is ok, just dont want the linkage rods extreme skewed angle to mess with the geometry

[Olgierd]

I almost finished assembling my 600 ESP. There is picture of my cycle servo links adjustments.
I have a question.
Does Align ESC powered by Align External BEC? I can see that ESC has connected three wires to throttle channel. Take a look at a picture. Should I remove this red wire form throttle connector?

[Shef]

Do not remove that wire! The ESC doesn't have a BEC.

[halley]

The ESC is powered from the battery.

The connection from radio receiver to ESC is to get the throttle signal. There is no electrical connection on the red wire, so there is no reason to cut it. The manual that comes with the ESC explains this.

(Update: I am sure I saw this explained in Align-provided materials. I just reviewed the "colorized" ESC manual from this site, and saw no mention of it. It only says that IF the ESC you're using is powered by a BEC, to remove the red line, but the Align ESC is not powered by a BEC. I'll check my paper copy at home, it might be newer. In either case, you can discover that the red wire is inert by plugging your 6S to your ESC, and your ESC to your receiver, and note that the receiver gets no power.)

[Olgierd]

Thanks guys for help.
I am going tomorrow after work to Fun Fly in Virginia and I will be on Saturday.
Maybe we can meet there.

http://www.heli-invasion.com

[razeyoshi]

Originally Posted by blindpilot

hey guys I am building a 10s t-rex 600esp with a cc hv 85 I was wondering why do people put a cc hv 110 on a 6s set up that's a lil over kill right correct me if I am wrong but that's good for t-rex 700e right the cells it holds and the motor plus it cost about 40 dollars more than a cc hv 85 thanks guys just wanted to know

-More Current (amps) in a circuit produces more heat. (heat causes failure)
-Volts x Current = Watts (power). So in theory, if your running 12s (double the voltage) then you only need half the current to make the same power. If your still running a 6s setup then you will want an ESC that can still handle 100 amps like the align one. So an hv 110 gives you the option to run both motor kv/battery setup and the size/weight difference doesn't effect a 600 size heli...

[razeyoshi]

How does the Hitec HS-965MG servo's fit/work on the rex 600 for cyclic? I just ordered the 600 and I'm gonna strip the servo's off my Gaui 550...

[Olgierd]

Originally Posted by razeyoshi

-More Current (amps) in a circuit produces more heat. (heat causes failure)

It is true more current more heat. We need resistance in order to get heat. The equation for heat is W = I*I*R When we have very very low resistance then we do not get heat. This is a reason why w are always looking for thick plate in battery – more C and low resistance ESC.

[nightflyr]

By request by Diploid the results concerning the Stock 6S 100A ESC issued with the TREX600ESP kit....

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread...ight=align+esc


https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=141403

[razeyoshi]

I checked out the poll on align 100a esc nightflyr. My 600 esp should be here soon. Looks like a 26% chance I will get a lemon... I plan on going 12s anyway...