Logo 690SX motor choice

[Vazodian]

Hi,

I bought myself the 690SX kit without motor.
Unfortunately I realised too late there were not that much options in motor choice.
It's also not easy to find a lot of information on this issue, I guess most guys are flying with the stock motor.
If I had known this before I guess I would have bought the kit WITH motor.

But ok, I'm still hesitating which motor would be best because at my club I have the possibility to buy these 2 motors :
1) Pyro 700-45 but I'm afraid it won't have enough power to do 3D at 2000 headspeed compared to the stock 4525-380. Has anyone flown with both motors to be able to compare them ?
2) Scorpion 4530 and have it rewound to 380 ? Anyone experience or advise concerning this motor in a 690sx ?
3) Pyro 750 and have it rewound to 380 ? But I already have a helijive and I read the Kosmik would be a better choice for this motor.

Please advise.

Best regards

[abanihani]

I have the scorpion 4530 rewinded by Gmauro to 390 KV and love it, very effecient and barely warm to touch after landing.

[taosgraveyard]

I am running a jive pro 120 and a pyro 750 Gmauro wound to 380 KV.

No issues so far. Great 3d at 1980 rpm. I had a friend ( a great 3d pilot) really smack it around on a 94 degree day, no issues. In the Jeti log there was one peak to 200 amps, but in general peaks are on the order of 130 amps, FET temperature got to 85c. ( I do have a heat sink on it). Temperature Shutdown would occur at 100c so I was happy to see temp no where near shutdown temp.

The 750 hauls like a freight train on this heli.

[taosgraveyard]

Originally Posted by abanihani

I have the scorpion 4530 rewinded by Gmauro to 390 KV and love it, very effecient and barely warm to touch after landing.

What ESC?

[abanihani]

Originally Posted by taosgraveyard

What ESC?

Jive pro 120 with heat sink,

[RyanW]

I flew with the stock motor a few flights, then a Pyro 750-45L. Quite a bit of difference in power for sure. 14t pinion and Jive Pro 120.

[justcheng]

Ryanw, which one is better for power?

People said stock is more suitable for 3d than pyro 750.

[hemp]

Originally Posted by justcheng

People said stock is more suitable for 3d than pyro 750.

Pyro 750 will put down more power than the combo 370Kv, period. The issue is gearing because 450Kv is too high. So you either gear outside of spec or rewind or run at low power with a good active freewheeling ESC. The combo motor is definitely the simplest option, but it isn't the most powerful option.

[taosgraveyard]

I went with the rewind because I wanted the 15t pinion.

[ToddM]

How do you go about getting gMauro to rewind a motor and what the approx cost?

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by justcheng

Ryanw, which one is better for power?

People said stock is more suitable for 3d than pyro 750.

Pyro has more power.

[taosgraveyard]

Contact him. info@gmaurobrushless.it

I'll let him represent the cost. It's reasonable, I seem to remember.

On my heli, the motor is simply a flat out horse.

A friend here has the stock motor, nothing wrong with it either. We are both using the jive pro 120, which has the kosmik governor. The only difference between the two helis is the motor and blades. My blades are heavier, for sure.

Even with heavier blades, I think mine makes a little more power but it is hard to tell.

Either way think you'll be happy

[Vazodian]

Hey Guys,

Thank you for all the replies !

Very interesting information.
I did some work comparing the motors that seem to work on this heli.

Flying weight of the heli with 12S-5000: 4800g

Let’s get to the numbers that are communicated by the suppliers :




For the motors mentioned in red it would be adviseable to rewind them to 380Kv. However, there will be a power consequence. The more you lower the KV the less power they will have.

The scorpion 4525 vs pyro 750: the pyro 750-500kv doens’t seem to have that much more power compared to the scorpion 4525-520. One could imagine that both motors, once rewound, would also deliver the same power ? However, there is a weight advantage of 40g for the pyro. Ryan and Hemp, you mentioned the Pyro 750 has more power, perhaps this is mainly due to the fact it was still the 450kv version ?

The pyro 700-45: seems to work based on German forums but when I look at the power , it seems somewhat underpowered compared to other motors. Any one on this forum has flown it and could compare it to the stock motor ?

The 5025-380 was test flown by Kyle Dahl and performed flawlessly without mechanical issues. I found a forum where Dave Dahl wrote this information.

The 4530-380kv also seems to work. Abinahani, have you already flown with another motor to be able to compare it ? It seems to be the strongest motor in my comparison, but 75grams heavier than the stock motor. But ok, this makes up for only 1.6% of total flying weight increase...

Some of you mentioned you use the Jive pro with kosmik processor for these motors. Will my Helijive 120hv work as well ?

And then there's also the discussion between the multistrand and single strand motors. I didn't mention this information yet in my comparison.

It is NOT my intention to find the most powerful motor for the 690Sx. I only want to build up a source where people can finally find information which motors perform very well/best on the 690SX.
I just don’t like to be in the situation where I’m pushed to use only one motor, the stock one.

[taosgraveyard]

Your helijive with a heat sink handles more continuous and more peak amps than the jive pro 120 with heat sink ... I have read on the Kontronik forum that this is true for both the powerjive 120 and helijive

[abanihani]

To answer the OP question to me, I did not want to stick with the stock motor so given my good relatioship with Gmauro for few years now, i asked him to choose a motor for me of his choice and rewind it for 380-390 KV. At that time he was rewinding several motor options including Johns which is the pyro 750 and asked me to wait until he is done testing. My criteria was effeciency more than power, Gmauro emailed me back saying the 4530 would be the best for winding this KV and will provide the most effeciency out of several motors he tested. He bought the kit, rewind and send back. I have now about 25 flights and could not be any happier, i fly 1950 rpm technical 3D and big air, no smacking using Jive pro. The motor comes down warm to touch only that you can put your hand on it as long as you want, no shut downs and balances COG nicely. I have not tried anyother motors on this heli to have comparisons.

[RyanW]

Hello Vazodian,

I would like to suggest a few tweaks to the comparison table if I may... great idea btw.

The Pyro 700 isn't really a fit for the 690SX. When the name designation was put in place for these motors, the power requirements were much less than they are today. For all practical purposes the motor series looks like this when talking about Logo helicopters:

Pyro 650- 550SX
Pyro 700- 600SX
Pyro 750- 690SX / 700 Xxtreme
Pyro 800- 700 Xxtreme
Pyro 850- 800 Xxtreme

Therefore I would recommend removing the Pyro 700, as it really would only be useful for lower power applications such as sport flying.

Second item- 450 is about as high of Kv as you want if you are flying 3D. You will step down from the 15t to a 14t and that seems to work okay, but I wouldn't go below that. To keep in the happy rpm range, I think a 500Kv motor is compromising too much on too many areas, such as having to run a 13t pinion.

I agree with all of the comments about rewound motors- they should always be more powerful than the stock variant.

Last item- I am not going to say the Pyro 750-45L is underrated, however both Hemp and myself have logged over 7400w flights (peak) with this motor and our friends with the stock motor, flying as hard as they can, have only reached around 5600w peak.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by taosgraveyard

Your helijive with a heat sink handles more continuous and more peak amps than the jive pro 120 with heat sink ... I have read on the Kontronik forum that this is true for both the powerjive 120 and helijive

I have read this as well. I don't know if you will be able to reach the peak amps to reach the limit on the 690SX unless you have a rewound or other monster motor.

While testing the prototype Jive Pro 120 I would repeatedly hit 175A peaks with no issues. There might be a threshold difference between it and the old Jive units, I honestly do not know.

One thing I did notice was average and peak amps both decreased going back to back with the Jive Pro 120 and HeliJive 120. I believe this increase in efficiency is due to the Kosmik style internal processing. On paper it equated to a 15% increase in efficiency.

[taosgraveyard]

Wow that's interesting. My pyro 750 380KV solid wire rewind logged a 200 amp peak just once, didn't shut down. And yes, 175 seems to be no problem.

Big sky and 3d ( not smack ) seems to only have 130 amp spikes

[prototype3a]

The 4525-370 is only ~3000w on 12s. The 3750w spec is on 14s.

I would also add the HK3 4035-450 as it is both lighter and more powerful than the stock motor. It is also bundled with the 'weaker' 600se and so any argument about stripping gears, breaking oneways or otherwise is invalid.

FWIW, I have read that production JivePros shutdown at just 20A over their continuous rating just like the Koby.
While , IIRC, Jives shutdown on a microburst of something on the order of 215A.

[hemp]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I am not going to say the Pyro 750-45L is underrated

I'm not on Team Kontronik, so I will. The Pyro 750-45L is underrated.

I hit 7400w with a 14t pinion running a head speed around 1950. The motor came down warm, but no hotter than my 4525-370Kv used to producing less power; fan design probably having more effect there than anything else. I'm going to try a smaller pinion to see if the gear train can stand up to it, but only for the ESC and battery's sake. For my normal flying style (profane but not really offensive) the motor has had no problem keeping up outside of its peak efficiency.

Of course to make that kind of power, you'll need excellent batteries. See my signature for more.

If I were willing to spend the dough and wait for a custom Gmauro rewind I would do that. Hand wound by an expert and carefully tested to prove the results is always going to beat something off the shelf for meeting specific needs. As far as this thread goes, I really only think it's worth comparing off-the-shelf motors. Once you start talking one-off rewinds then it's not a fair comparison.