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looop76 · 12-04-2006, 06:10 PM

Hey... i am trying to get to the bottm of these glitches, and what causes them. Also trying to figure out how nessasary it is to buy a DX6 or7 if you have had a glitch or glitches can you tell me what frame you have and what transmitter. also if you have never had a glitch feel free to give me your set up as well so i can see what is working..... thanks for the help

tommy

bmlasater · 12-04-2006, 10:31 PM

fwiw..

Think of the Spektrum radios as the Borg...You will be assimilated... :mrgreen:

John.

kama1 · 12-04-2006, 10:52 PM

went spektrum right from the start....never had a glitch :mrgreen:

Smity777 · 12-04-2006, 10:56 PM

I have had glitches, But only gliched I had with a DX6 was not RF noise. It was static electricity off the belt of a Trex. Once I lubed the belt, no more jolts. No glitches. I have had my share chasing them down and it is no fun. So I got a DX7 now and I am not looking back. Besides I don't have to get a Pin anymore at the field

.

AlanMcSwain · 12-04-2006, 11:00 PM

Any metal striking metal or OTHER conductive material (carbon) can cause RF noise. Poorly lubricated bearings. Loose frame members and screws.

I have a raptor 30 that I've owned for three years now that glitches and despite totally re-building it, I have never been able to stop the glitch. I keep now and call it my "Haunted Heli"

Alan

AlanMcSwain · 12-04-2006, 11:04 PM

Oh...

And living an unclean life can do it too.

Finless · 12-05-2006, 12:01 AM

ANY MOTOR OR ESC "STUFF" near radio or servo stuff.

Please all and I have been through this so many times with people it is not funny.

1) EME or Electro Magnetic Emissions can effect any analog OR digital signals!
2) Dont think it is always a RF hit to your RX! I have seen EME effect the digital signal to servos, gyros, etc!!!!

I will tell you something I have seen SOOOO often it is not funny..... The guy puts his RX up front... Thats OK... but then his gyro is in the back and he runs the gyro wires along the bottom of the frame right past the motor... OK following this?
So he plugs in his battery and as the ESC "beeps" the motor (yes that IS where the sound comes from), the tail servo MOVES to the beep sound!

I say "see that" that is EME noise directly to the gyro signal line to the servo and has NOTHING to do with RF radio glitches! This too can happen to servos... Understand there is a PULSE signal to servos and EME can SCREW them up too...

Bottom line dang it (preching) get your motor/ESC stuff as far away from ANY radio or control systems (like servo wires, gyro wires, etc) as you POSSIBLY can!

NO POLL NEEDED!

Bob

The Reaper · 12-05-2006, 12:06 AM

How can bearings cause glitches? Are you saying that they generate RF?

The TREX pilot at my LHS says he has never had one. No ferrite, no lube on anything. I am going to have him look at my rex when I am done with it.

AlanMcSwain · 12-05-2006, 12:31 AM

A bad bearing, especially on a larger gas heli can make weak rf noise.

ahperson · 12-05-2006, 01:53 AM

I have a XL with a 7 Cap and a electron 6 and I never had a glitch until I crashed and rebuilt my heli. When I took her up it glitched so bad on the second battery pack that I almost lost it doing nose-in. I had four hits before I could set her down so I hit throttle hold when I got close to the ground because I thought I would crash again.

I disassembled everything and made a mount to put my receiver in the front. I also put a ferrite ring on the wiring coming from my esc. I lube my belt with silicone spray and no more glitching. Now after a lot of reading and research I'm thinking the glitching came from the cold weather. I'm not really sure because I made so many changes to fix the glitching, but this is just a gut feeling. I know the electron 6 is known for it's glitching but I never had a problem until it got cold. I have flown 8 packs since with no problems so I will keep my fingers crossed. I hope this helps!

One more thing that I failed to mention was when I crashed I remove the pulley for the belt and I was running my belt pretty loose so maybe that help with the static buildup. The pulley is back on with a new upgraded tail assembly.

Andre

The Reaper · 12-05-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanMcSwain

A bad bearing, especially on a larger gas heli can make weak rf noise.

Can you please explain the theory behind that? None of the other engineers here have ever heard of this and are all interested.

Heli_harry · 12-05-2006, 10:46 AM

Diode effect

rdlohr · 12-05-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

ANY MOTOR OR ESC "STUFF" near radio or servo stuff.

Please all and I have been through this so many times with people it is not funny.

1) EME or Electro Magnetic Emissions can effect any analog OR digital signals!
2) Dont think it is always a RF hit to your RX! I have seen EME effect the digital signal to servos, gyros, etc!!!!

I will tell you something I have seen SOOOO often it is not funny..... The guy puts his RX up front... Thats OK... but then his gyro is in the back and he runs the gyro wires along the bottom of the frame right past the motor... OK following this?
So he plugs in his battery and as the ESC "beeps" the motor (yes that IS where the sound comes from), the tail servo MOVES to the beep sound!

I say "see that" that is EME noise directly to the gyro signal line to the servo and has NOTHING to do with RF radio glitches! This too can happen to servos... Understand there is a PULSE signal to servos and EME can SCREW them up too...

Bottom line dang it (preching) get your motor/ESC stuff as far away from ANY radio or control systems (like servo wires, gyro wires, etc) as you POSSIBLY can!

NO POLL NEEDED!

Bob

This gets my vote. My heli has been set up from the start using this philosophy and I have never had a glitch.

Also, Electron 6 receivers are notorious for glitching...

Rick

The Reaper · 12-05-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heli_harry

Diode effect

Would you know of a paper on the net that describes this?

My google search only provided findings of the phenomena that required semicon junctions or external magnetic fields.

Thanx.

Heli_harry · 12-05-2006, 02:26 PM

I don't know of a source for a paper but being an old Ham radio operator I have seen this over the years so that is proof enough for me

It's proabably due to the metal grains or something from the metal being machined and formed. Along the lines of how our GIs used to make crystal radios using razor blades.

The Reaper · 12-05-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heli_harry

I don't know of a source for a paper but being an old Ham radio operator I have seen this over the years so that is proof enough for me

It's proabably due to the metal grains or something from the metal being machined and formed. Along the lines of how our GIs used to make crystal radios using razor blades.

OK, but I believe what you're describing is a receiver, the 'ol crystal radio receiver. They dont really transmit, or generate RF. A diode simply rectifies received RF energy.

Heli_harry · 12-05-2006, 02:42 PM

Everything is in an rf field (Unless it is in a sealed metal box).

When metal rubs metal it makes noise.

Weather it is generating it or just rectifing it the end result is the same, noise.

AlanMcSwain · 12-05-2006, 02:59 PM

http://www.14mz.com/faq/faq-14mz-q862.html

AlanMcSwain · 12-05-2006, 03:02 PM

http://www.spektrumrc.com/Articles/A...ArticleID=1423

The Reaper · 12-05-2006, 03:42 PM

Thanx........

12-04-2006, 06:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
looop76 Join Date: Oct 2006	Taking a poll on glitches and what causes them. Hey... i am trying to get to the bottm of these glitches, and what causes them. Also trying to figure out how nessasary it is to buy a DX6 or7 if you have had a glitch or glitches can you tell me what frame you have and what transmitter. also if you have never had a glitch feel free to give me your set up as well so i can see what is working..... thanks for the help tommy

12-04-2006, 10:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
kama1 Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Jun 2006	went spektrum right from the start....never had a glitch :mrgreen: __________________ * Why dont you go shave your big stink head with your bad self * * It sure does have some power ... but the tail sucks * * Every time I crash a kitten dies......so many lost kittens * Dropping the F bomb as much as possible

12-05-2006, 12:01 AM	#7 (permalink)
Finless Team Taco VP My HF Map location Join Date: Nov 2005	ANY MOTOR OR ESC "STUFF" near radio or servo stuff. Please all and I have been through this so many times with people it is not funny. 1) EME or Electro Magnetic Emissions can effect any analog OR digital signals! 2) Dont think it is always a RF hit to your RX! I have seen EME effect the digital signal to servos, gyros, etc!!!! I will tell you something I have seen SOOOO often it is not funny..... The guy puts his RX up front... Thats OK... but then his gyro is in the back and he runs the gyro wires along the bottom of the frame right past the motor... OK following this? So he plugs in his battery and as the ESC "beeps" the motor (yes that IS where the sound comes from), the tail servo MOVES to the beep sound! I say "see that" that is EME noise directly to the gyro signal line to the servo and has NOTHING to do with RF radio glitches! This too can happen to servos... Understand there is a PULSE signal to servos and EME can SCREW them up too... Bottom line dang it (preching) get your motor/ESC stuff as far away from ANY radio or control systems (like servo wires, gyro wires, etc) as you POSSIBLY can! NO POLL NEEDED! Bob __________________ "Don't Taco My Pack Dude!" NEW Video Link -> Safety Video #1 Video Link -> CAUTION using powerful tools! Video Link -> How to CRASH TWICE in one flight! Video Link -> Don't Taco!

12-05-2006, 12:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
The Reaper Testing... 1...2...3 My HF Map location Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ca	How can bearings cause glitches? Are you saying that they generate RF? The TREX pilot at my LHS says he has never had one. No ferrite, no lube on anything. I am going to have him look at my rex when I am done with it. __________________ - Dani F Burke -

12-05-2006, 03:42 PM	#20 (permalink)
The Reaper Testing... 1...2...3 My HF Map location Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ca	Thanx........ __________________ - Dani F Burke -

12-04-2006, 10:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
bmlasater Registered Users Join Date: Jun 2006	fwiw.. Think of the Spektrum radios as the Borg...You will be assimilated... :mrgreen: John.

12-04-2006, 10:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
Smity777 Registered Users Join Date: Jun 2006	I have had glitches, But only gliched I had with a DX6 was not RF noise. It was static electricity off the belt of a Trex. Once I lubed the belt, no more jolts. No glitches. I have had my share chasing them down and it is no fun. So I got a DX7 now and I am not looking back. Besides I don't have to get a Pin anymore at the field .

12-04-2006, 11:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
AlanMcSwain My HF Map location Join Date: Apr 2004	Any metal striking metal or OTHER conductive material (carbon) can cause RF noise. Poorly lubricated bearings. Loose frame members and screws. I have a raptor 30 that I've owned for three years now that glitches and despite totally re-building it, I have never been able to stop the glitch. I keep now and call it my "Haunted Heli" Alan

12-04-2006, 11:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
AlanMcSwain My HF Map location Join Date: Apr 2004	Oh... And living an unclean life can do it too.

12-05-2006, 12:31 AM	#9 (permalink)
AlanMcSwain My HF Map location Join Date: Apr 2004	A bad bearing, especially on a larger gas heli can make weak rf noise.

12-05-2006, 01:53 AM	#10 (permalink)
ahperson Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: May 2006	I have a XL with a 7 Cap and a electron 6 and I never had a glitch until I crashed and rebuilt my heli. When I took her up it glitched so bad on the second battery pack that I almost lost it doing nose-in. I had four hits before I could set her down so I hit throttle hold when I got close to the ground because I thought I would crash again. I disassembled everything and made a mount to put my receiver in the front. I also put a ferrite ring on the wiring coming from my esc. I lube my belt with silicone spray and no more glitching. Now after a lot of reading and research I'm thinking the glitching came from the cold weather. I'm not really sure because I made so many changes to fix the glitching, but this is just a gut feeling. I know the electron 6 is known for it's glitching but I never had a problem until it got cold. I have flown 8 packs since with no problems so I will keep my fingers crossed. I hope this helps! One more thing that I failed to mention was when I crashed I remove the pulley for the belt and I was running my belt pretty loose so maybe that help with the static buildup. The pulley is back on with a new upgraded tail assembly. Andre

12-05-2006, 10:46 AM	#12 (permalink)
Heli_harry Registered Users Join Date: Oct 2006	Diode effect

12-05-2006, 02:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
Heli_harry Registered Users Join Date: Oct 2006	I don't know of a source for a paper but being an old Ham radio operator I have seen this over the years so that is proof enough for me It's proabably due to the metal grains or something from the metal being machined and formed. Along the lines of how our GIs used to make crystal radios using razor blades.

12-05-2006, 02:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
Heli_harry Registered Users Join Date: Oct 2006	Everything is in an rf field (Unless it is in a sealed metal box). When metal rubs metal it makes noise. Weather it is generating it or just rectifing it the end result is the same, noise.

12-05-2006, 02:59 PM	#18 (permalink)
AlanMcSwain My HF Map location Join Date: Apr 2004	http://www.14mz.com/faq/faq-14mz-q862.html

12-05-2006, 03:02 PM	#19 (permalink)
AlanMcSwain My HF Map location Join Date: Apr 2004	http://www.spektrumrc.com/Articles/A...ArticleID=1423

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