Still Flying The MSR

[mawz]

I'm actually expecting we'll see another mSR, probably called the mSR S.

It'll be Flybarless with SAFE, just like its big brother the 120 S. No doubt it will fly much like the regular mSR in Normal mode and more like an mSR X in ST1/ST2.

[Blade Scraper]

Originally Posted by mawz

I'm actually expecting we'll see another mSR, probably called the mSR S.

It'll be Flybarless with SAFE, just like its big brother the 120 S. No doubt it will fly much like the regular mSR in Normal mode and more like an mSR X in ST1/ST2.

I don't think we will. Blade has already been there and done that, and twice now: first with the flawed mSR X, and then again with the identically sized nCPS which flies, in Stability mode, exactly as the mSR X should have (but didn't because of the terrible piro rate on it).

The 120S is a different animal because Blade had nothing in that size range other then the 120 SR, which they continued producing even after discontinuing the mSR and mSR X. So the 120S is simply to the 120 size what the nCPS, in Stability mode, is to the mSR and mSR X.

What I found puzzling with the 120S was Blade's decision to release it as an FP heli, rather then a CP heli like the nCPS, that could do a soft FP flight envelope through SAFE and Stability mode but offer the capability to do switch into true CP via Agility or 3D mode.

That decision is a puzzling one to me when the micro CP void is a bit wider now that the mCP X BL has been discontinued, so the next step up in CP from the nCPS now is either the 180 CFX or the 230S if you want SAFE and a tamer heli then the 180 CFX, although at the (unacceptable to me for its size) cost of a plastic frame and direct drive tail motor. I opted for the 180 CFX instead because with the TT tail and CF frame it more closely resembles a small 450 in design and construction then the 230S does.

But I found the decision to kill both the mSR and mSR X puzzling too. The mSR X was a let down, but the mSR definitely, for its time, was not. And I still fly my mSR and prefer it to my mSR X, although now its relegated to being my backup heli in the event my nCPS is down and waiting on parts.

So the thing to speculate on, I think, is how long will the non-SAFE 180 CFX remain on the market with it priced the same as the 230S. I think there definitely remains a good demand for the 180 CFX, but right now Blade is throwing in a free aluminium carry case for it, which was enough incentive for me to step off the fence and buy it as it best fit the gap in my heli lineup between my small micros and Chase 360, and I won't buy a 230S because of the plastic frame and DD tail motor. I would buy a Trex 250 (Align or cloned) before buying a 230S.

With the plug pulled on the mCPX BL and the FP 120S just released, and the timing the same, I think we (should) be due to see something new in that is CP, with SAFE, and sized somewhere between the nCPS and 230S. Blade followed the FP 200 SRX, with SAFE, up with the CP 230S, so I'm hoping to see a CP heli released that is inbetween the mCPX BL and 180 CFX in size. But who knows...

[mawz]

The thing is I think Blade is realizing there actually is a market for FP still. Specifically for newbies and for smaller indoor spaces where the high head speed of CP Heli's is an issue (FP crashes won't damage things that the faster spinning CP birds will damage, like TV's and softer drywall)

Which is why I'd expect to see an mSR S at some point (as good as the nCP S is, it's not as good as an mSR or mSR X in smaller indoor spaces due to the high head speed). It also gives Blade a lower cost heli (remember, the 120S is the same price as the nCP S, I'd expect an mSR S to be either $89 or $99).

What I don't expect to see again is an mCX2 replacement. An mSR S would functionally replace the mCX2 when in Normal mode, and the mSR (X) in agility modes.

I wouldn't be shocked to see a CP bird in the space you mentioned, they do need something between the nCP S and the 180CFX or 230 S sized birds.

I don't see the need for a replacement for the 180CFX, beyond maybe adding SAFE. The 230S is the milder, newbie oriented bird, while the 180CFX is the expert-level heli in the same size space. Your learner will do fine with the 230S's tail motor and SAFE, while the expert will want the 180's all-round more capable spec.

As to the 120S, I'm pretty sure it's FP because it's 1S. You're going to have a hard time getting CP head speeds on that size rotor with a 1S motor. The 120S is already known to be pretty tame in terms of throttle response because of the somewhat anemic motor.

[Blade Scraper]

Blade had to have done better in market share back when its small micro lineup consisted of the mSR, mSR X, and mCP X, then they did after discontinuing the mSR and mSR X, only to eventually replace both with the nCPS. The nCPX, having no FP mode through SAFE, was a smaller & brushed compliment to the mCPX BL, meant until the nCPS, Blade had no FP heli smaller then the 200SRX. I think also their only FP heli.

To go straight from a coaxial to a CP heli of any size is a big jump. I avoided it by buying the 120 SR, and then the mSR X. When I found the mSR X too squirrely for inside, I bought two mSRs, as they were great helis. And still are, just no longer made.

Maybe someone in the Blade hierarchy underestimated the demand for FP helis, in waiting so long to replace the mSR X with any kind of successor. The nCPS in Stability mode is exactly what the mSR X should have been, if the mSR X had piro comp, which the lack of really hurt it).

My understanding of the 200 SRX is that in Agility mode, since it also has SAFE but is FP, is that it won't tend to self-level, as it does in Stability mode, and the nCPS in Stability mode does as well. I assume this is true of the 120S as well. This makes them good transition helis, as the old mSR and mSR X were, since with the nCPS its all or nothing: in Stability mode, you have the self-leveling FP tendency that a (simulated through the FBL) flybar brings, plus a tame headspeed. Take it out of Stability mode and it becomes a pure CP heli: no self-centering tendency, far higher headspeed, and no bank limit.

The 120 S surprised me, as I expected to see the mCP X BL discontinued (which it recently was), but with a CP heli with SAFE with about the same size blades and power. Maybe Blade thought at some point quads would take over the FP market, but later realized they are two different markets that don't have much overlap (not many quad fliers also fly helis, and vice versa). And a broad enough FP SAFE micro lineup could fill gaps and provide the easy stepping stone from coaxial.

[mawz]

Remember, the 120SR was only just discontinued, so Blade had that in their lineup right until the 120S came out. But they have lacked something smaller since the discontinuation of the mSR and mSR X. I think they'd planned to keep the mSR X in the lineup but saw that it was somewhat unsuccessful as an mSR follow-on. Blade does seem to be moving as aggressively as they can from hardware to software for any stabilization (which is a good thing in a lot of ways, you get wider performance envelopes and less stuff to break)

As to the nCP S, while it does have a tame headspeed in Stability mode for a CP bird, it's still much higher than the mSR or mSR X, so you retain the CP dings walls/TV's issue.

Stability on the SAFE birds is true self leveling, more like a coax than even a 45 degree flybar, they will level more aggressively than an mSR or 120SR. On the 120S, as with the 200SRX Agility is the same as a regular FBL FP bird (FP has no self-levelling tendency, it's the 45 degree flybar that imparts a modicum of self-levelling to the Blade FP birds).

The 120S was unexpected, but given the long popularity of the 120SR, I think it was inevitable. I'd love to see a CP bird in the same class though, the mCP X BL is smaller (more of a 100 class than a 120 class) and a notional replacement should probably be a 120 CP S or a 130S (which I see as a possibility. I know the 180CFX replaced the 130X, but they need something between the 180 size and the nCP S).

I would like to see a pseudo-FP mode for the learner CP's, where you get much milder self-levelling & a bank limit to cover the transition from Stability mode to Normal CP flying. Another possibility would be to put stability on Ch 7, so you could adjust how aggressively the aircraft self-levels separate from the Flight mode.

Personally I'm still learning to fly on the mSR and 120SR (I understand the tech a lot better than I actually fly it) but I'm a little stumped as to a next aircraft to my 120SR. The 230S is too big, the 180CFX too big & hot, the 130X has no stabilization, the mCP X BL is a little smaller than I'd like. Probably will end up with the mCP X BL or a HCP100S with a sat unless Blade announces something new in that space

[Blade Scraper]

If you are considering an mCP X BL or HCP100S as a next heli, I would consider instead the Nano CPS or XK K110. I had the same dilemma last fall, and after a lot of procrastination and research, I bought both.

I bought the nCPS because I could have it within a week, and parts are easily available whether stock or aftermarket (and it has a lot of aftermarket support). Over the course of about 50 flights and many crashes, I only broke two parts on my nCPS: a servo and a canopy pin. Early this week I ordered a 2nd nCPS, I like the heli that much. The only other heli I ever bought a 2nd of was the mSR, which was (by far) my most frequently flown heli before getting the nCPS. And I still keep one mSR flyable, as I still like it too much to retire it.

I think the K110 is a good compliment (or alternative) to an nCPS: its brushless, so its closer to an mCP X BL or HCP100S in power and capability, but my impression is that its a better performer then both (handles better). Its only downside, versus those two, is that if you don't have a Futaba radio, then you have to buy it RTF and adjust to flying it with that radio. I didn't consider the radio trade off a big deal, because the radio is supposed to be very good for an RTF radio, and just bought it RTF. Even though I own an AR6210 receiver that I could use for binding an HCP100S with a sat, to my DX6i, I still don't think the HCP100S delivers enough to be the better alternative to an RTF K110.

Even though either the mCP X BL or HCP100S will handle a crash better than the 180 CFX will, I think both are closer to it in the 'wildness' factor that goes with very high headspeed on a small micro. I think the K110 may be a little tamer, and because it can use v977 parts and because they can be bought in big, but inexpensive parts kits, its also cheaper to maintain. There are also two alternatives to it as well: the k100 and k120.

I passed on the k100 because with its brushed motor, its closer to the nCPS in capability (though there's a better brushed motor, the MMW motor, as well as brushless alternative nCPS motors available) which I already have. And I passed on the k120 because it doesn't have the v977 parts compatibility the k110 has via the v977, which was a big draw of the k110. With its 2S brushless motor, the k120 should be very similar to the mCPX BL, as both use 2S brushless motors and are close in size and weight.

The 130 X was a bit of a miss, which Blade acknowledged in their 180 CFX technology video, and the 180 CFX was released to replace it and address its shortcomings. The mCPX BL was recently discontinued. The 180 CFX is indeed a wild ride in a small package (side by side its nearly identical to the 120 SR in size) with its governed headspeed of up to 5,000 RPM, so it requires a deceptively larger area then it outwardly looks to need, to more then hover in. The 230S isn't actually that much bigger then the 180 CFX, but is much tamer, and the 200 SRX is tamer still (but like the 120S, its FP).

For $100, its really hard to go wrong with the nCPS though. Its a lot of heli in a very small package, and with SAFE its very tame for flying indoors in Stability mode, yet you still have the CP option at the flick of a switch. My goal with the nCPS is to get used to it enough out of Stability mode, by flying it outdoors this summer in Agility mode with my other helis, to be able to fly it indoors next winter in Agility mode as well. Its actually pretty surprising to see just how much the character of the heli changes once its flicked out of Stability mode, and those little blades really spool up.

[mawz]

There's definitely an nCPS in my future, as the follow-on to my mSR. The main downside for me is I have quite a restricted space to fly indoors.

Outdoors, I'd be concerned with the size of the nCPS, low-wind days are rare near my place, so I was hoping to find an option in the 120SR's size range which should have better wind handling than the nCPS.

The 230s and 200SRX just seem to be a little larger than I'm really comfortable with at this point. I'm also looking to stay away from 3s for now. I'm trying to keep to the small & cheap to fix heli's until I've acquired a higher skill level, and the same for batteries (I'm also trying to keep as much battery commonality as I can, all my stuff is 1s except for 2 gliders, one of which shares a charger with my Tx's)

The K120 really does look good, even if I'm ambivalent about the Tx (it's a letdown for someone used to high-end JR stuff, I fly an X9503 and an XP8103), I also like that it uses the same batteries as the Align T-Rex 150, which is a bird that I see as a likely purchase once I'm comfortable with flying CP.

The K110 is also interesting, looks like it could possibly be made compatible with the 120SR batteries with a simple connector swap, and the price is right.

[Blade Scraper]

My K110 arrived today and my first impression can be summed up in 1 word: wow! I am very impressed by the entire package, including it being already bound and calibrated to the RTF radio in the factory, so setup consisted of charging the lipo, turning the radio on, plugging the lipo in and done! The heli, in 6-axis mode (I maidened it indoors so the first lipo I tested it in 6-axis mode), had a perfect hover and, even in toned down 6-axis mode, was very quick.

In 3D mode, on my 2nd flight (only 1 lipo until my separate lipo bundle arrives, hopefully next week), I can't say too much about because I crashed it quickly - my indoor space and 3D haven't yet come together.

One thing about the 120 SR, for me, is that being my first heli, the '120' in its name has proven to be a very deceptive baseline for comparing other helis to. The nCPS, mSR, and mSR X are all nearly 100% identical in size and there is some degree of parts overlap across them.

You would think a 'K110' would be close in size to a 120 SR, but in fact its much smaller and much closer to an mSR, or nCPS, in size. The boom is a bit longer, but they are very close in size. The K110, with its brushless motor, has a lot more power though. Even in 6-axis mode, I really liked how responsive it was with high rates, and how much power was available to tap into.

The 120 SR is better compared, in size, to the 180 CFX. The 180 CFX is only a little larger than the 120 SR, and both are much bigger than the K110 or even smaller nCPS.

One of the interesting things about both the nCPS and the K110 is the low parts count compared to the mSR, so there is less to troubleshoot because you don't have the flybar and all of the extra linkages that go with it.

I found the problem with the 120 SR, outdoors, was simply lack of power: a little breeze would cause it to 'kite' and usually wind up in a tree or on my roof. The mSR X had a higher power to weight ratio and handled the wind much better then my 120 SR could.

The nCPS has the same small size as the mSR X (except for colour, they are nearly identical outwardly) but more power and therefore it should be able to handle a light wind even stock. An $8 MMW motor upgrade (plug and play, though you have to remove the pinion) gives it a little more power still, and there is also a more expensive brushless upgrade.

The nCPS, stock or with the MMW motor upgrade, can fly in the same small indoor space as the mSR, and with mSR parts becoming scarcer here in Canada, the nCPS inherited the role of my primary indoor heli that my mSR held for years before I bought the nCPS. But in 6-axis mode, the K110 comes very close to requiring only the same small space - the longer boom makes it a little larger, and its brushless motor is much more powerful than the stock nCPS motor, but the slightly larger size is offset by the extra responsiveness that power gives you.

I am extremely impressed by the K110. It is not in the same size ballpark as the 120 SR, but closer instead to the mSR. I think its combo of small footprint and brushless power should make it a very good yard flier - it doesn't have the wide blades and large fuselage of the 120 SR for the wind to pick up, but does have enough power (my initial impression) to be able to handle a little bit of wind; not as much as a bigger 180 CFX or 230S, but definitely more then the brushed the nCPS.

Lipos for the K110 are very cheap. I have these ordered, with the 6-in-1 charger, and am hoping they arrive next week:

http://www.banggood.com/X6A-A08-6-IN...-p-992867.html

I also ordered this for spares:

http://www.banggood.com/WLtoys-V977-...-p-940618.html

My understanding is that its only the electronics (ESC, main board) that are different between the V977 and K110 so the V977 parts will fit the K110.

The included X-6 radio I haven't had to mess around with yet, but its pretty impressive for an RTF radio: 6 channel, big LCD display and backlit, and fully programmable with multi-model memory. I will dig into the radio more to tweak for 3D mode once the weather is suitable outdoors to fly it in.

[mawz]

Blade Scraper,

Not sure where you are in Canada, but mSR parts are dirt simple to find around here (Toronto) and pretty much all my local sources sell online. This is good because I have been breaking stuff (killed the tail motor a few minutes ago).

The K110 definitely looks interesting. I'm probably going to pick up the nCPS next weekend and we'll see about ordering the K110 or K120, I'll probably pick depending on how the nCPS works out.

[Blade Scraper]

I'm living right now in one of the colder and more remote parts of Canada (Labrador). I've recently been ordering some parts from A Main Hobbies in the States, as they have $1.99 flat rate shipping on small stuff with no minimum order amount. With parts only available for me online, its been cheaper to go there for small orders, and they're still stocking parts for all of my oldest helis.

Shipping time for me within Canada is pretty consistently a week with Expedited shipping (I mostly order here in Canada from Rotor Quest), and about 2 weeks from the US.

My first order from Banggood (swash servos for my Chase) took 6 weeks to get here, and I expected my K110 would take about the same amount of time, which would have meant I'd have had my 2nd nCPS at least 2 weeks before the K110 arrived. But they shocked me this time, and it got here from their China warehouse in 3 weeks, ahead of my 2nd nCPS (which I only ordered Monday).

I went pretty crazy the past few months on the heli stuff, so hopefully I won't need to make any major parts orders soon. We are getting our first hints of Spring here, but it'll be at least another couple weeks before its dried up enough to start flying outside again and I've been piecing together an outdoor capable micro fleet to try and reduce the pucker factor for when I maiden my Chase.

I devoted so much of my 4+ years in this hobby to FP, and neglected sim time for most of it, that my CP is still very sloppy. For me its been a tough transition, and its still relaxing sometimes to just fly either the old mSR, or the nCPS indoors in simple (and forgiving) Stability mode (easier on the furniture and TV too). It also turned out to be a plus on the K110 that its 6-axis mode is still similar to Stability mode on the nCPS - but without panic recovery, and with a lot more power on tap. Now if only the extra lipos arrive soon... an entire weekend with the new heli but only the single lipo it came with to fly it with.