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Flybarless Helicopter Systems CSM Cyclock, Helitronix Multi-mixer, Spartan AP2000i, Firmtronix Digimix-3, Gyrobot, SK360and AC3X


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Old 05-06-2009, 06:33 PM   #1
filtr
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Default V-bar System

Hi Folks

I was at a chopper rally this weekend. I am learning to fly choppers. I seen a lot of the barless systems.

Is this the way to go in the future.

I am learning right now. But my wife is looking for a birthday present
so would this be a good investment.

Ron
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Old 05-06-2009, 06:49 PM   #2
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Hi filtr,

Another Canadian here, flybarless is definitely the future, indeed it is now here. We joke in the field that flybar will be very precious very soon .... If you already have a good gyro on your chopper then SK 360 is a better choice...

If your wife is looking for a b gift....
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:23 AM   #3
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Default Vbar

There really is nothing better than the Mikado Vbar though

I have tried a few systems and have yet to find on that compares to the Vbar...
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Old 05-08-2009, 10:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli-RND View Post
(...) salespitch (...)
^ Remember this comes from someone that makes a living out of selling the thing...


Flybarless is great which makes most people chear at whatever system they use even if they have never tried anything else. Having tried two now all I can say is that the Vbar does a much better job than the sk360 and when you take the price of the tail gyro into consideration it's outrageously priced. If you already have a good gyro you can sell it to overcome the price difference.
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Old 05-08-2009, 11:59 AM   #5
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^ Remember this comes from someone that makes a living out of selling the thing...


Flybarless is great which makes most people chear at whatever system they use even if they have never tried anything else. Having tried two now all I can say is that the Vbar does a much better job than the sk360 and when you take the price of the tail gyro into consideration it's outrageously priced. If you already have a good gyro you can sell it to overcome the price difference.
I agree 100%...

I have tried the Skookum, vbar and now Gyrobots....I'm still voting for Vbar as top dog!
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:44 PM   #6
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I think the original question was, "Will this help a beginner". The answer is "yes", but probably not as much help as they cost. You still have to fly the heli, learn orientations, etc. The Flybarless systems (really called flight stabilization systems) don't give their top benefit until you start flying aerobatics.

Spend your money on good helis and lots of flying time right now. When you are doing your very first flips and rolls, consider a Flight Stabilization System. For your B-Day present, get a the Phoenix sim (even if you have Real Flight) or get a really nice field case or, or, or...



And, from someone who's flown several: Mikado V-Bar clearly has a two or three year tech lead on everybody else.
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:20 PM   #7
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Mikado does have a jump time wise, but they still do not have the gyrobot 900's auto leveling option. I've never used a mikado v bar, but for a beginner, letting go of your cyclic and having the heli bring itself into level hover is a huge atvantage. also, gyro bots are much smaller than the v bar and they are easy to setup. I've heard the v-bars software takes some getting use to.

just some things to think about.
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Old 06-09-2009, 09:13 PM   #8
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Good point. V-Bar does not target beginner. Gyrobot and FMA Co-pilot do target beginner and would be a much better choice.
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Old 06-11-2009, 05:23 AM   #9
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I agree that Vbar is beneficial for a beginner, as I've found my Vbar heli (Logo 400) is very stable in forward flight and hovering. The heli tracks on rails, wherever you point it, until you tell it otherwise, and needs little correction to achieve a stable hover. This is a characteristic of most sims, which often fly too perfectly. So, if you can confidently fly a heli on the sim, I'd say you can translate that more easily into real life with a Vbar heli, as it has this "perfection".

With Vbar V4.0, the setup is also a lot simpler, and the instructions are very easy to follow.

Unfortunately the price tag will be more than some beginners are willing to pay, but hopefully this technology will be mainstream in the not-too-distant future, bringing the price down.
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:12 AM   #10
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My vote is on the vbar v4 after trying both gyrobot 700 and vbar v4. In my opinion, the gyrobot owner needs to hire some programmers to make a modern-day interface for the users. The plain blue pattern with white text looks so iffy, reminding me of the old mainframe computer screens. You can't even enter the values that you want, but by using the TX stick and the stick is way too sensitive to key in the nice even number.

So I don't agree that vbar v4 is not friendly to beginners. The manual, the interfaces, all are just so well written and designed. Besides, the experts like MrMel, Jag72 can "smell" your problem right away when posting the vbar file in the forum. Gyrobot is probably a long way to the stage where you can simply save your settings to a file and share with others. Now for Gyrobot 900, I think it's overpriced. I do not need the hover assistance since I'm passed that. In my opinion, beginners who can't hover should stick with the stock flybar to begin with
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Old 06-13-2009, 12:39 PM   #11
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Whilst I agree that Mikado are way ahead on PC software development (Gyrobot PC software is actually just an emulator of the Cockpit programmer), I do think the GB is ahead in hardware (built in accelerometers, single body unit, better materials and finishes etc). GB's challenge is to make there devices easier to setup ala V4.0.

It is perhaps ironic that whilst their beginner mode is quite brilliant (GB900), you need to be a pro to setup everything correctly.

More competition can only benefit us all. I seriously hope that LF come out with new more comprehensive PC software for the Gyrobot, especially for newbies to FBL. I have bought the cockpit and must admit it is way easier and more intuitive to use than the PC emulator as well as obviously being more convenient. I also would like to see Mikado integrate both units into one (like their new mini) as I find the stock V-Bar inelegant.

The AC-3X is another beautiful device, hardware wise perhaps the best, as it is the smallest and has the programmer built in with a beautiful OLED screen on top of the device itself.

Personally I don't really care for the PC software stuff, I want a hand held device that I can take with me to the field, and it should have V4.0 built in with all models and settings, or better still, have it all included in the device itself similar to the AC-3X. And having the receiver built in is also highly desirable. First to do all of this will get my vote....
For now I will use the Cockpit programmer at the field.
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:12 PM   #12
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can the V bar system be used with any other gyros?
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:46 PM   #13
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nope
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Old 06-16-2009, 04:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHOCOFAN69DALEPABAJO View Post
can the V bar system be used with any other gyros?
Why would you want to, I mean it has 3 gyros, elevator, aileron and rudder... and they seem to be top class gyros...?
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:20 PM   #15
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Holy crap!?!?, looks like u also pay for the gyrobots, dang. thats crazy. I dont really care about the beginer part of it, or the looks of it, i want the best performing one.
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Old 06-17-2009, 08:03 AM   #16
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Well I just asked,I kinda figured if I could use a spartan that I have stashed away her, but as I can clearly see it run's as a whole unite gyro and v- system and the fact that the gyro alone run's for $250. but if it work's great what the heck I think I'm gonna get one for my rex700.
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:33 AM   #17
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It works really really well. My Gyrobot is in a Trex 250, it flies like a 500-600 class. I can only guess what it would be like in a 700.

The biggest challenge with going flybarless lies in the setup. It takes a lot of patience to get things right. In this regard the Mikado V-Bar PC based software appears the best and will probably be the quickest route to a well tuned ship.

Only problem is my T500 (flybarred) feels jerky and unresponsive in comparison to the T250, so I have to get bucks together for a FBL system for that now. Damn, the bug has bitten.
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
It works really really well. My Gyrobot is in a Trex 250, it flies like a 500-600 class
wow
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:00 PM   #19
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Boy, we've drifted far away from the "beginner" question... but... as per the hardware packaging:

V-Bar has the non-PC device today. They call it "Control Panel". Quite nice.

V-Bar is shipping the "Mini" very shortly. Everything in one box.
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Old 06-17-2009, 03:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danal Estes View Post
Boy, we've drifted far away from the "beginner" question... but... as per the hardware packaging:

V-Bar has the non-PC device today. They call it "Control Panel". Quite nice.

V-Bar is shipping the "Mini" very shortly. Everything in one box.
Yes, the GB Cockpit seems to be similar to the Control
Panel. However I think the presets of the V4.0 software go along way to make sure your setup is more or less correct for the beginner user before fine tuning with the Control Panel.

How well does the T500 compare to the fly barred version Danal I see you have both?
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