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Old 08-30-2009, 02:06 AM   #1
grwarlock
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Default My thoughts on the Pantera 50

First off I would like to thank John Beech for his strait forward no bull shit answers to all my questions ask of him on the telephone before I purchased my Pantera.

Here is my setup

Gyro Gy401 with Futaba S9257 on the tail

Blue Bird BWS 631 .06 Digital servos X3 on cyclic

Spectrum DS821 on throttle (the only place I would use this servo on a heli)

Spectrum AR 7000 Receiver

YS 50 (Cause I'm to lazy to fiddle with needles every time I want to fly)

Fuel 15% Heli Cool Power

Maverick 620 Carbon Blades

Futaba T9CHP with spectrum TX module

Every thing else on the heli is stock.

This heli performs like a TREX 450. It is fast and nimble and very predictable. (I wont miss my TREX 450 now)

So far in the last 9 days I have burned 2 gallons of fuel through it and have had no failures.

It does loops gracefully, axle rolls like its on a axle, fast forward flight with out any hatefully pitching, inverted you name it we did it.

My friend who is a excellent 3D pilot put her through the ringer and is ordering one for him self. It's hard to keep him away from it long enough so I can fly it and he owns a 600 Align. With the higher tail rpm the tail just stays put. Simply put ,this Heli just performs.

For a beginner this heli hovers like a champ, toned down she handles like a pro and is VERY stable.

So what don't I like, to be very honest I hate milk jug canopys that come with all kits including this one. With that changed I can not see any thing I do not like so far.

What would I add or change ?

Go to a Fiber Glass Canopy

Buy a Governor.


Service is A+++. No complaints at all. And when that crash comes I know parts will be here in just a day or two as the manufacture is in Fla.

At 200.00 this is a great buy in my opinion.

Thanks Audacity Models and John Beech for making one hell of a fun Helicopter.

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Old 08-30-2009, 05:13 AM   #2
Pinecone
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Get rid of the DS821 on the throttle.
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Old 08-30-2009, 10:13 AM   #3
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2nd that...throttle is one place even worse than cyclic to have a "wild" servo.

Fails on cyclic it will be a "quick event".

(If) That servo fails WOT...you very well might have a self-destructing, SERIOUS over-speed waiting to happen, which could be even worse when bit & pieces go flying every.

Believe the rule with DS821...no where on a 50-size nitro due to the amount of vibration.

Nice review though!
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:38 PM   #4
dwoodworker
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[QUOTE=grwarlock;1514995]First off I would like to thank John Beech for his strait forward no bull shit answers to all my questions ask of him on the telephone before I purchased my Pantera.

Here is my setup

Gyro Gy401 with Futaba S9257 on the tail

Blue Bird BWS 631 .06 Digital servos X3 on cyclic

Spectrum DS821 on throttle (the only place I would use this servo on a heli)

Spectrum AR 7000 Receiver

YS 50 (Cause I'm to lazy to fiddle with needles every time I want to fly)

Fuel 15% Heli Cool Power

Maverick 620 Carbon Blades

Futaba T9CHP with spectrum TX module

Every thing else on the heli is stock.

This heli performs like a TREX 450. It is fast and nimble and very predictable. (I wont miss my TREX 450 now)

So far in the last 9 days I have burned 2 gallons of fuel through it and have had no failures.

It does loops gracefully, axle rolls like its on a axle, fast forward flight with out any hatefully pitching, inverted you name it we did it.

My friend who is a excellent 3D pilot put her through the ringer and is ordering one for him self. It's hard to keep him away from it long enough so I can fly it and he owns a 600 Align. With the higher tail rpm the tail just stays put. Simply put ,this Heli just performs.

For a beginner this heli hovers like a champ, toned down she handles like a pro and is VERY stable.

So what don't I like, to be very honest I hate milk jug canopys that come with all kits including this one. With that changed I can not see any thing I do not like so far.

What would I add or change ?

Go to a Fiber Glass Canopy

Buy a Governor.


Service is A+++. No complaints at all. And when that crash comes I know parts will be here in just a day or two as the manufacture is in Fla.

At 200.00 this is a great buy in my opinion.

Thanks Audacity Models and John Beech for making one hell of a fun Helicopter.

[/QUOTe about how much money minus radio and receiver. trying to compare to trex 600 over all cost
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Old 11-06-2009, 11:50 PM   #5
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$300 gets you two kits. That's $200 for a helicopter, plus $100 for every spare part you need.

Engine, I spent $170 for a YS50, and I spent about $70 each on 3 servos, re-used one for throttle. Gyro too I already had.
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:01 AM   #6
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Sounds about right to me! I'd also toss the DS821's... although I flew on them at 6v for half a season and never had a problem. That's gonna change this winter for the off-season overhaul though. I don't recommend those servos on any heli for any function for any reason- I was lucky. I think I'll end up dropping them in my old Graupner Bussard sailplane- that's a much more appropriate home for them.

It pleases me to see the growing legions of very enthusiastic P50 owners!

There is nothing that this heli can't do, and it does it all at an awesome price-to-benefit ratio as well.

One more time, GREAT JOB, John! When the P50 v2 makes it's debut, I think it'll take the .50 class by storm and re-establish what the standard for the class will be.

-Ray
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Old 11-08-2009, 02:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6Hawk View Post
$300 gets you two kits. That's $200 for a helicopter, plus $100 for every spare part you need.

Engine, I spent $170 for a YS50, and I spent about $70 each on 3 servos, re-used one for throttle. Gyro too I already had.
I am looking for estimated overall price. there is more things needed to complete heli than what you have mentioned for instance on a trex 600n pro kit it comes with engine,muffler, govornor,2-n-1 voltage regulator and fuel tubing, filter and pinch off for 850.00 and than I would need throttle , cyclic and tail servo and gyro. of course a transmitter and receiver but I am not figuring that into cost.if I get limited edition it has all of the electronics but I would need the engine and muffler. I have been looking at the pantera and I am interested but am concerned with parts availibility. not wanting to buy trex just because it is popular but stongly concidering it due to parts are readily available and assistance on learning from the many who fly them is a plus as well.And the company is large enough and established its self over the years as a front runner that I don't think I have to worry about them closing their doors and me not being able to get parts. any words as to why I should concider a pantera are welcome
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Old 11-08-2009, 03:18 PM   #8
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This is what I spent on a Pantera 50
Pantera 50 199.00
OS 50 Hyper 149.97
Futaba 7C 2.4GHz w/R617FS 4-S3152
1 Free R617FS Reciever Promo 339.00
Futaba GY401 w/S9254 209.99
Audacity muffler w/one free muffler 74.99
Main rotor blades 24.99
Starter and starter shaft 95.00
Fuel 1 case w/hazmat shipping 160.00
Total 1252.94
Now For incidentals and upgrades
Well I won't list them all but it equals about
another 450.00
I highly recommend the air filter and servo supports and elevator bearings that Audacity has to offer.
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Old 11-08-2009, 03:46 PM   #9
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Ok, I have both and I fly both. The Pantera is one of the best bangs for the buck period. Flies very nice, much better than my uncoordinated thumbs can manage anyway. Parts costs, well maybe that depends on where you are. For me, I live in Hawaii so parts come all the way from the east coast. Not cheap to be sure but if you're in the mainland U.S. than I'm sure your parts costs will be a whole lot less.
Quality wise the Pantera is pretty hard to fault. All the components seem heavy duty and built to last. The design is where I love this thing. The bearings are super easy to change if needed and the build is quick. The super tough frames and blade grips are a major bonus if you're in the learning stages because you WILL crash.
Things I would change? The swash plate (maybe when needed) to full metal and the texure of the frames. The frame thing is just from an asthetics point of view. Now my Trex 600 has been flying very well also. However I had some severe issue with their QC or the lack there of. I replaced all of the stock bearings within 4 flights. Every single one went notchy. The thrust bearings in the blade grips also failed. I pulled the grips apart and the tiny ball bearings fell out of the bearing cage! Now mind you I caught some heavy flack from the Align boys on this but I believe my gripes are well founded.
I asked my LHS owner (30 yrs in the biz) about Aligns quality and he said that it was Shi&^y period. He went on to say that Align bearings are crap and everone knows it, but he carries the line because thats what the customers want. Yes parts are cheaper and everyone carries them. The joke is that Align gives you two of everything in one bag because one of the two is bound to be bad. Too bad really. I love the looks of the Trex and it flies nicely and I love my T500. Would I buy another? Probably not. It's hard to argue the value of the Pantera especially with the current sale price and 2nd one for half off.
Then there's the icing on the cake, the support. John may get under the skin of some folks but hey, thats human nature for you. Audacity's support is unmatched in this hobby as far as I'm concerned. The direct support on an individual basis puts Align in the dumpster. I've on many occasions caught John as he was headed out the door for the day and he'll spend the time needed to get me squared away. Try that with brand "A". If they had some kind of easy access tech and warranty support it might be a different ballgame but they don't so it's not.
Ultimalety it's your money. Buy what makes you happy. When it comes to getting your foot in the door on 50 size helis the Pantera is hard to beat. If it was not for the lower start up cost with the Pantera I'm sure I's still be flying my 500 only. There are alot of really good helis out there, give the Pantera a careful consideration you may like what you see. Phew! Was that long winded or what?

TT
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Old 11-08-2009, 04:02 PM   #10
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thanks for the input so far freakers ( keep it coming ) thanks spell for the cost break down and thank you tacoturbo for the side by side comparison
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:19 PM   #11
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The P50 is my first nitro, and I had been flying a TRex 450 for 2 seasons prior to getting my Pantera.

My immediate thought about it is that they would make a great first helicopter. Like TT said, they are very tough birds and can withstand more abuse than the fancy (and very fragile) carbon-framed kits out there. The build is easy and intuitive, and the manual does a very good job of giving you tips and tricks on how to build the heli to it's highest potential. It's got a simple, no-bull design that is easy and actually pretty fun to work on.

It's tunability is second to none. There is enough pitch range for +/- 12* of collective, and the mixing arms can be set to give more cyclic pitch than you could use. The beauty is that there are so many ways to fine-tune the feel of the helicopter... it responds well to things as simple as paddle and blade selection, and when you add in all the mixing ratio options available in the head, you're left with almost infinite tuning combinations.

Cost of parts is par for the course, maybe a little less. JB is very good at keeping stock, and I've only had one occasion that a part was not available- kind of a fluke, really. The customer service is also what seals the deal for me. John deals with everyone in a very personal and friendly way, and it's easy to tell that this guy eats, breathes and lives Pantera.

I've been very much pleased with my P50 for the last couple months that I've had it! I really wish that I would have just skipped the 450 and gone straight for the Pantera as my first "real" helicopter. To tell the truth, I'm really not that interested in flying anything other than a Pantera. At the field, I've had the chance to fly a lot of my buddies' helis, including T600s, T700s, R50s and '60s, and a Ghobee .60. Of all of them, the Pantera is by far my favorite. Honorable mention goes to the T700, but that's a really expensive helicopter and I can't really afford to crash one.

If you ever thought that a Pantera was just another "cheap plastic helicopter", you should seriously take a closer look at what a Pantera has to offer. I've never talked to anyone that owned one and didn't like it.

-Ray
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:14 PM   #12
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thanks ray good feed back. and yes hearing so many good things about the p50 is definitly peaking my interest. does it come with air filter or is that an upgrade. I was thinking instead of getting the 2nd heli for a hundred maybe I should apply that to the upgrades. also wondering how long to receive parts once ordered
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:20 PM   #13
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I emailed genises hobby to see if they actualy sell everything to outfit the heli.I know they were giving prices for packages labeled entry level intermediate and money no object but i don't know if that was just comparative figures or actualy setups that they sell
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:37 PM   #14
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One other plus is the P50 is slightly larger than the T600N. Bigger is easier to see as well as fly. John also has the recommended components for a budget build listed on his website that might help. One of the things that I enjoyed is when other fliers find out that the kit only cost $199.00 for a 50 size heli. Hell, you can't hardly buy a 450 airframe for 200 bones! Sadley I have a closet full of broken 450 helis of one brand or another. With all the money I thew away on smaller helis I could have done the Pantera and still have money left over. I also had one hell of a time trying to learn on smaller helis. My first taste of nitros was on a used Raptor that flew really well untill I crashed it. I lost cyclic control at the top of a loop and the likely cause was a popped link, two of which were never recovered from the crash site. All in all I really like the Pantera. Sure I'd love to get other helis like a 90 just to have them but times are super tough right now so the Pantera's lower cost of entry into the 50 size nitro world is a good thing.

TT
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:49 PM   #15
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Air filter, servos supports, elevator bearings, upgrades.
Here is their webpage, if you haven't already been there.
http://www.genesishobby.com/
Also did you check out Finless Bob's Techroom? He is building a P50.
Go to http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=151507 last page has the videos so far he 's done.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:02 PM   #16
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Yeah, just call or e-mail John and let him know what you want. Get the air filter, get the servo supports, and whatever other options you'd like for both helis- well worth the investment! You'll be able to speak with him 1-on-1 to verify that you're getting exactly what you want to have. Like me and everyone else has been saying, the customer support is an 11 out of 10. You'll see!

In fact, and no bullsh*t- I think that if you checked your email before you read this post, you've heard from JB already. Also, parts have never arrived any later than the 3rd business day after I called. Not as fast as the LHS, but you'll be out flying again by the next weekend. Crashes don't cost so much that they'll end your season, and parts arrive quickly enough that you don't have unacceptable downtime. It works.

Panteras can't be beat. If you don't mind having a helicopter that isn't what's "trendy" for today, and wish to have a solid model that will fly however you want it to fly and do it reliably, then a Pantera will be a good fit.

-Ray
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray K. View Post
Yeah, just call or e-mail John and let him know what you want. Get the air filter, get the servo supports, and whatever other options you'd like for both helis- well worth the investment! You'll be able to speak with him 1-on-1 to verify that you're getting exactly what you want to have. Like me and everyone else has been saying, the customer support is an 11 out of 10. You'll see!

In fact, and no bullsh*t- I think that if you checked your email before you read this post, you've heard from JB already. Also, parts have never arrived any later than the 3rd business day after I called. Not as fast as the LHS, but you'll be out flying again by the next weekend. Crashes don't cost so much that they'll end your season, and parts arrive quickly enough that you don't have unacceptable downtime. It works.

Panteras can't be beat. If you don't mind having a helicopter that isn't what's "trendy" for today, and wish to have a solid model that will fly however you want it to fly and do it reliably, then a Pantera will be a good fit.

-Ray
All sounds good. so far nothing bad as on the trex 600n site. I just built a trex 450 pro and the quality left something to be desired and left me thinking if I want to really spend that much money on the 600n I had 2 servos fail and an ESC that smoked and blazed a little all before even the first flight. next month I will buying my christmas present from my wife and I believe it may be the pantera. If you don't mind could you tell me the electronics and engine your running. I got response from john today and he recommends a different kind of battery other than lipo. I forgot the name but says you get about 120 flights before charging. I think my hyperion charger may charge these. I will have to check.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:29 PM   #18
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Hey dwoodworker,

as receiver pack, I use the HydriMax 4200 milliamps from TowerHobby. There are both 4 cells (4.8V) or 5 cells (6V). Great batteries!

I charge them every gallon of fuel - put back in about 2000 milliamps. So theoretically they could last for 2 gallons.

My Pantera is set as follows:

4 x Futaba 9452 on cyclic and throttle
Futaba GY401 + 9254 on tail
MultiGov Pro
Futaba 8CH receiver 2.4Ghz
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:36 PM   #19
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I use a 2500 mAh 2S lipo for a receiver pack. I have it running through a SGP Reactor X, and I intend on getting some better servos than the DS821s I've got now. My tail setup is a GY401 with a JR 8700G.

I can safely get 4 flights before I feel that it's necessary to charge the Rx pack. I have a lipo charger that I use for my 450 that always comes the field with me (I can run it directly off my car's battery), so a lipo Rx pack made a lot of sense for me. I can have it fully recharged in under an hour, which isn't too long for me to wait. I have to stick it up as far forward on the radio tray as I can get it, because it's pretty light and will make my bird noticeably heavy in the ass if I don't.

I'm also using an Aerospire MultiGov Pro, and I use a Spektrum backplate sensor instead of magnets- works like a charm! I've got it set for 1950 rpm in stunt modes, and that's the magic number for my OS Hyper 50. This headspeed keeps the engine right on top of it's peak power, and I find it to be more than adequate.

My servos and gyro will be upgraded this winter, but I'm still not sure what I'll be upgrading to. I can say for sure that I'll be getting a new JR 8900G for the tail, and the old 8700G will pick up throttle duty. Gonna do the gyro too, and it's come down to Futaba 520 vs. Spartan. No idea what I'll end up doing for cyclics, but they'll be digital, powerful, and fast- I'm looking to step up into some pretty high-end servos, so we'll see how it ends up.

No need to worry about the quality of a Pantera. I have seen nothing on my model to indicate that the parts aren't up to snuff. Nothing has failed suddenly, bearings hold up well, and it's a kit that is certainly built to last. The thing's like a Humvee- simple and effective design with overbuilt parts. It's a formula that works out very nicely!

-Ray
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Old 11-11-2009, 07:29 PM   #20
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Thanks rotocopter and ray I have noticed some threads about some wear on certain parts that you were asking about. also rotocopter was saying he was using a battery that I assume is a nmhd and is using it through at least a case that semms like more life than the lipo. and I take it that you don't need a voltage regulator for that one. also you may want to check out hyperion servos like the DS20smd great price and are supposed to be fast.web site is allerc.com
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