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HBFP V1/V2 E-Sky Honey Bee V1 & V2 Fixed Pitch


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Old 10-11-2009, 07:21 AM   #1
oliverdots
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Default So you want to learn to fly R/C helicopters

So, you’ve seen an R/C helicopter flying in the park or seen the nice glossy heli mags in W.H.Smiths and think, “I want to fly one of those”. So you buy a copy of Helicopter World and look through it. Which one are you going to buy? That big one with the flashy canopy would turn a few heads in the park wouldn’t it? No, I think we need to think very carefully before our first purchase. I’ll tell you 2 things now. 1, All this advice is in my opinion only. 2, I’m not going to tell you which heli to buy, that's up to you.

Before we start, I would like to point out that my opinions that follow, do NOT refer to micro heli's. There are many out there and they can be an exception to the rule. Heli's such as the Walkera CB100 and the Eflite MSR have flybars that are not 90 degree's to the blades so they fly very much like a coaxial.

There are 3 different types of helicopter you could buy and it really comes down to your own personal circumstances and personality.


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First up is the coaxial helicopter.

The 4 channel version like the Esky Lama V3 for example. These heli’s have no tail blades as the twin main rotors rotate is opposite directions, elimination the need for a tail rotor. To turn, one set of rotors will either speed up or slow down and the torque of the rotors turns the heli. The pitch of these blades are fixed and altitude is controlled by the rotors either speeding up or slowing down. The main control unit in the helicopter is called a “4 in 1”. This is the Receiver, speed controllers and gyro. The gyro is pretty good and holds the tail quite well although tail inputs are needed when hovering. These heli’s are very stable and can hover fairly much without any control input. These are usually flown indoors as they really can’t handle more than a very very light wind. A lot of people learn to fly with these helicopters as they are very easy to learn on. They have the same control system as single rotor heli’s so you can learn the basics of flying, without the crashes and repairs. Not only will it teach you rudder / aileron / elevator and throttle control, but will also teach you about orientation. This means you can learn to fly side-in and nose-in. Orientation is very important to flying helicopters and with the coaxial heli being so stable, it is not too difficult to learn.
So, the advantages of a coaxial helicopter are….
  • Stable
  • Durable
  • Capable of being flown in an average living room
  • Minimal damage to objects and people, if struck by the blades
  • Quite cheap to buy
  • Fairly cheap and easy to repair and set up
  • Comes ready to fly with all the electrics included.
  • You can let your mates have a go.

Disadvantages are….
  • Cannot be flown outside unless there is virtually no wind
  • If you do fly outside, you have to keep the heli fairly close to you. Due to their small size, it’s very easy to lose orientation.
  • Controlling the altitude will never be sharp and precise. There will always be a delay as one rotor will have to speed up or slow down, although altitude is still very controllable.
  • You may soon become bored and want to progress to a single rotor heli.
  • Although you can learn a lot from it, you will still notice a big difference when you move up to a single rotor heli.
  • The gyro is pretty good but won’t hold the tail rock steady.


Next we have the FP (Fixed Pitch) Helicopter.

There are many fixed pitch, single rotor helicopters to choose from. You can get a small indoor heli like the Walkera 4#3b,Walkera CB100, Eflite MSR or a larger FP like the Esky HoneyBee V2. Again, these are 4 channel and the altitude is controlled by the single rotor either speeding up or slowing down. These heli’s have a motor driven tail rotor. The main control unit in the helicopter is called a “4 in 1”. This is the Receiver, speed controllers and gyro. The gyro is pretty good and holds the tail quite well although tail inputs are needed when hovering. Again the smaller “micro” heli’s are flown indoors or outside with near to zero wind. The larger types, like the HoneyBee, can be flown indoors but require a larger area. Something like a double garage is fine. They can also handle a gentle wind.

Advantages of a single rotor helicopter

  • Unless you go for a micro size, you can fly these outdoors in conditions that would ground a coaxial
  • A good helicopter to buy and learn on, before progressing to a CP heli.
  • Again, quite durable although perhaps not as durable as a coaxial.
  • Cheap and easy to repair
  • They come already built and most come ready to fly with full electrics included.
  • They are big enough to allow you to fly further away and still keep good orientation.
  • Will keep you happy for a long time before you feel the need to progress to another heli.
  • Not very expensive to buy

Disadvantages

  • You can’t do much more than hover if you fly indoors, unless it’s a sports hall.
  • These will hurt you or others if struck by the blades. They will draw blood!
  • Require some amount of setting up (they very seldom fly straight out of the box).
  • A lot more unstable than a coaxial so it’s a longer learning curve.
  • The gyro is pretty good but won’t hold the tail rock steady.



Lastly we have the CP (collective Pitch) helicopter.

Now we have what I call, the “real” heli. These helicopters are 6 channel, with pitch control. Don’t worry, throttle and pitch are automatically mixed for you. You don’t need 3 sticks and 3 hands. Again this is a single rotor heli but now, altitude is controlled by changing the pitch of the blades. This means, a given height is easier to maintain. Assent and descent is faster and sharper plus you can fly inverted and basically, perform aerobatics. The tail is belt driven. A belt runs off a gear that is driven by the main gear (the main gear drives the main rotor) to the tail gear driving the tail rotors. The tail blades also change pitch to turn the nose of the heli. Again, this makes the tail control very precise and responsive. The electrics in these are all separates, (no 4 in 1). The gyro has a head lock feature which for best part, holds the tail very well in hovers. Little or no input is needed at all to keep the tail still.

Advantages

  • A very high head speed which means high stability.
  • Can be flown outdoors in stronger winds.
  • Controls are a lot sharper and precise.
  • Heli will handle aerobatic maneuvers.
  • The bigger you go, the further away you can fly.
  • You are now flying a “true” helicopter.
  • You can buy them ready to fly with all electrics included.
  • Usually have a very good gyro which holds the tail very well.

Disadvantages

  • Very high rotor speed means, even a small knock will break quite a few parts. If someone is struck by the blades, main or tail, they are going on a trip to A&E. These heli’s are VERY dangerous in the wrong hands.
  • A lot of time spent repairing and setting up.
  • Again, these heli’s will need inspections, checks and adjustments before the first flight. You can’t fly straight out of the box.
  • Every knock will cost you money. An average crash will cost £30 upwards.
  • Setting up can be a nightmare. You will need to watch plenty of video’s on You Tube etc.. and ask lost of questions on forums.
  • Time spent on maintenance and inspections. You don’t want a malfunction if you can help it.
  • These are noisy. A neighbor won’t be happy with you flying it in the garden at 11 o’clock at night or 6 o’clock in the morning.
  • If you fly in a park, you need a large “people free” area to fly in.
  • I really don’t recommend flying these indoors unless it’s a sports hall or similar.


I would never recommend a CP as a first helicopter for a learner. They are dangerous. You will probably crash very often at first. 3 crashes will cost you over £100 and many many hours of repairing and setting up, and those 3 flights may have only lasted 30 seconds in total. You will soon become disheartened and your wife will be asking where all the housekeeping money has gone!

Finally let’s talk a little about helicopter simulators. A lot of the good coaxial's and fixed pitch heli’s come with a free simulator. You simply install the software to your pc, plug the supplied lead into your transmitter and the USB port on your pc and you are good to go. The free simulator is called FMS which I like. You can pay a lot more and buy your own. Phoenix is regarded as one of the best for your money. They are good training aids but, don’t think if you can fly on a simulator, then you can fly the real thing. If you had a driving simulator with a steering wheel and pedals and you practiced for 3 months, do you think you could jump in a car for the first time and past your test? No, but you would learn more about driving a car compared to someone who hadn’t used a driving simulator. You will learn what each stick does and how to use all 4 movements at the same time. You will learn the basics of hovering, and turning etc… And when you are ready to try flying nose-in and side-in, it will help. Just don’t think, “if I can do this on the simulator, then I can do this with my heli. You won’t. It will help to prepare you. It is a great training aid. When you can’t fly, then use the simulator.


I’ll leave you with a few tips,

Think long and hard before you decide what helicopter to buy.
When you think you know what you want, look for a forum that talks about that particular heli and read the posts and stickies. There are plenty of tips to help make flying easier.
If in doubt, ask on the forums. There is no such thing as a stupid question, we are all here to help each other.
ALWAYS treat your heli with respect and never take your eyes off her when flying, even for a split second. You’ll lose it.
If your heli doesn’t come with a simulator, get one. FMS is free to download. http://www.flying-model-simulator.com Just buy the cable.
To learn to fly a heli you need, patience – patience – patience and practice – practice – practice. If you want it hard enough, you will get there.


The most important thing is, have fun!!
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2 x Nano heli's - now passed on to Megan, HoneyBee V1.....Awaiting test flight, T-Rex 250 V1, Hitec 5084MG tail servo, DX6i, Walkera 4#3A (it's in fairly good hands Bugster).

Last edited by oliverdots; 03-18-2010 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:43 AM   #2
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Well done OD !!! now thats a sticky if ever I saw one !!!
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:51 AM   #3
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Thats a very Good Intro Read For Newbies should be a sticky for sure but in the newbie section as well as here.

Well Done OD great read
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:27 AM   #4
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Thanks for taking the time to post od, excellent advice and I agree it should be made a sticky where newbies can find it. Certainly here in the Esky forums because so many newbies start off with their range. I think it would also be good to see it in the "New Member Introductions" forum.
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:49 AM   #5
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Thanks all for the feedback. I agree it doesn't really belong here. Just wanted to help people who want to start out and I didn't know where it should go. I kinda hoped if it was stickie material, then Mr Bugster would find somewhere for it

Thank you.
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2 x Nano heli's - now passed on to Megan, HoneyBee V1.....Awaiting test flight, T-Rex 250 V1, Hitec 5084MG tail servo, DX6i, Walkera 4#3A (it's in fairly good hands Bugster).
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:34 PM   #6
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So if you are thinking of going CP then this has to be great value !!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ARF-6-CH-3D-45...d=p3286.c0.m14

Might even get me one as spares!!!
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:27 AM   #7
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Well done and thank you.I have been flying nearly 12 months .just read your post and as they say you can never stop learning.
Lots of good info not just for newbies but for oldies to
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:46 PM   #8
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If this section was to have only one sticky this is the one! This is definitely the best written , most informative post Ive ever seen. This thread could easily be standardized in evey section of this forum. Many beginners go out and buy a beautiful CP like a Trex and quickly surmise this hobby is the stupidest thing they have ever attempted. I know if I started CP I would never want to look at another helicopter again. If however you start off properly (coaxil) and take it one step at a time you can have a wonderful experience and may even become atticted for life.
Funny but I started with the exact 3 helicopters shown. First I mastered the Esky Lama, then progressed to the Esky HoneyBee FP and finally to a Trex CP in 450 size.
Once again Craig, thank you for taking the time to assist others in this wonderful hobby.
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:36 PM   #9
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Thank you Hogan and VL
When I get this kind of feedback, It reminds me how much I have learnt. Then I see other's posts and realise how much I still have to learn. Aren't R/C heli's just the best thing?? And doesn't HeliFreak just rule the web
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If you make a mistake and learn from it, that's progress


2 x Nano heli's - now passed on to Megan, HoneyBee V1.....Awaiting test flight, T-Rex 250 V1, Hitec 5084MG tail servo, DX6i, Walkera 4#3A (it's in fairly good hands Bugster).
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:41 AM   #10
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Nice one again OD my friend...time well used and gratefully received by many newcomers, I'm sure.
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Old 10-13-2009, 03:03 PM   #11
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Thanks Luke
Where have you been buddy? You didn't post for a few days last week. All ok?
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If you make a mistake and learn from it, that's progress


2 x Nano heli's - now passed on to Megan, HoneyBee V1.....Awaiting test flight, T-Rex 250 V1, Hitec 5084MG tail servo, DX6i, Walkera 4#3A (it's in fairly good hands Bugster).
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Old 10-13-2009, 04:24 PM   #12
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Default Hi OD and VL

Good post OD - if you thinking am I the same mjc from heli guy - then yes I am! Finally got round to registering on here. Good work and great to be back in with some old friends...have you got a new dressing gown yet?

Mark
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Old 10-13-2009, 05:11 PM   #13
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MJC, welcome buddy

Oh I have a new look right now. Red latex band round my head, (holding the camcorder), and grinding goggles. Will I post a pic of myself??? Oh you just know it baby

Thank you for your kind comments
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If you make a mistake and learn from it, that's progress


2 x Nano heli's - now passed on to Megan, HoneyBee V1.....Awaiting test flight, T-Rex 250 V1, Hitec 5084MG tail servo, DX6i, Walkera 4#3A (it's in fairly good hands Bugster).
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:18 PM   #14
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HEY MJC! Yea man, I remember you......WELCOME!
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:32 PM   #15
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yep - been busy - wasn't flying much over the summer and holidays and all that but now its time to get back into it again - saving up for the CP at the moment and looking forward to hearing what all you guys have been up to.

Mark
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Old 10-15-2009, 03:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverdots View Post
Thanks Luke
Where have you been buddy? You didn't post for a few days last week. All ok?

Sorry m8, missed this reply. I've started the new job, so time online is down anyway (they want me to go out and do this thing called ...work?? What's that about??) I had to spend a few nights away as well, so that meant no evening online time...but its all good!


Things OK with you I trust!
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Old 10-16-2009, 12:33 AM   #17
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hi there mark forget saving up for a cp...i got one of these and its great.flys out of the box,like someone did actually test fly it
its the same size as a bee so wont be to scary and parts are cheaps to replace

http://www.elitemodelsonline.co.uk/P...D-RTF-MODE2-UK
but check out the storm its a 450 and seems like my next bird to get

hay luke great news you gotta admit working sucks,just finnished a night shift
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Old 10-16-2009, 01:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Warmwater View Post
they want me to go out and do this thing called ...work?? What's that about??
I tried it once.

I never liked it.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:21 AM   #19
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Default Small FP "disadvantages" apply to mSR ?

First off, thanks for the post. There's a LOT of good advice there. I don't completely agree with the "Disadvantages" you list as applied to an mSR. No experience with other birds of the type, so I can't comment on that, but after 3 weeks fooling with the mSR mostly in the living room, I need to offer a bit of rebuttal.

Disadvantages

  • You canít do much more than hover if you fly indoors, unless itís a sports hall.
Trying to hover, land on a CD case, and do banked turns in a 10-foot wide space can provide hours of entertainment
  • These will hurt you or others if struck by the blades. They will draw blood!
I've been hit plenty of times and have yet to bleed. Have not hit myself at speed yet, though, and hope not to.
  • Require some amount of setting up (they very seldom fly straight out of the box).
My LHS flew mine straight from the box, no setup except binding that I saw. When I got home, I was able to do the same. Comments I hear from other owners are mostly the same.
  • A lot more unstable than a coaxial so itís a longer learning curve.
Very stable when set up ok (i.e. not missing links, blades not binding, blade grips not broken, oops). Does TBE big when slowed from speed, but calming that is "flying".
  • The gyro is pretty good but wonít hold the tail rock steady.
The statement is true, but this is not a "disadvantage", it's "flying".

Anyway, I'm not sure what helis these disadvantages were written for originally, but IMHO they don't really apply to the mSR as I indicate. From what I can tell, it's a perfect trainer: easy to fly, hard to master.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:46 AM   #20
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FREE, the FP heli that OD was speaking of is the ESky HoneyBee (HBFP is 300 size, the MSR is a micro) In that instance his comments were spot on. Any other 300 size FP would have the same results.

As far as the MSR I heard great things and several here have and love them. Excellent as you said for indoor fun.
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