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600 Class Electric Helicopters 600 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 10-21-2009, 06:34 AM   #1
Ricci
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Default 11T or 12T pinion on the 1700KV NEU 1515H/2.5 DF?

I'm planning to buy the NEU 1515H/2.5 DF motor for my 600ESP.

My first concern is if it is a direct fit without any frame modification or cut (considering that it is a 49mm width motor when I had some difficulties installing the 48mm Hacker A40 10L on it). Would it fit?

Can the 1700Kv NEU 1515H/2.5 DF reach 2000 RPM at 80% throttle with an 11T pinion (will be using governor mode with my CC ICE 100)?

According to my calculations, it should reach 2K RPM at 80% with the 12T but not sure what is more efficient in a battery consumption perspective.

Finally, does the motor wires fit in a 6mm bullet connector?

My flying style in mild 3D.

Any answer is welcome,

Thanks,

Ricci.

Last edited by Ricci; 10-21-2009 at 03:42 PM..
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:10 AM   #2
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I use an 11T pinion w/ my HV110.
I run it governed at 2025rpm (pretty close to the max using the standard gov mode) and that's the perfect amount of power for me (for now).

The motor fits perfectly in the stock frames w/ no modifications. I'm pretty sure I'm using 6mm bullets (just like what's on the Align motor).

Enjoy...it's a great motor for 6S.
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Old 10-21-2009, 04:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
I'm planning to buy the NEU 1515H/2.5 DF motor for my 600ESP.
---cut---
Finally, does the motor wires fit in a 6mm bullet connector?
The motor wires easily fit inside 6mm bullets. I use Neu 6mm bullets and there is a lot of playroom.
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:59 PM   #4
Ricci
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OK Thanks for the feedback.

I have now installed my new NEU 1515H 2.5 DF motor and begin to test it.

When connected to the main gear (with the correct mesh and backlash, not too tight) and pushing by hand the rotor, it apparently has more resistance than the stock Align 650L and produce more noise on spool up.

Is this normal (maybe because it has only 4 poles)?

Thanks,

Ricardo.
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:37 PM   #5
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Are you using the stock ESC? If so, then yes. If you're using the stock ESC, there's a grinding sound on spool up. That's normal. I use a CC HV110 and it's smooth...just a different kind of soft start. Don't be worried about the noise though. It's normal.
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:44 PM   #6
Ricci
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Quote:
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Are you using the stock ESC? If so, then yes. If you're using the stock ESC, there's a grinding sound on spool up. That's normal. I use a CC HV110 and it's smooth...just a different kind of soft start. Don't be worried about the noise though. It's normal.
No, I am using the CC ICE 100 and the noise I refer to is produced by the pinion - main gear friction, not the motor it self.

As I said before it is harder to push the rotor with the hand because there is more friction and when shutting down the motor after spool up, it stops much quicker.

Curious thing is that the gear mesh is the same I use with other motors, which looks OK (11T modulus 0.7). Note that I had to lower 5mm the motor in order to have the correct vertical contact between the pinion and the main gear (using 4 spacers on each screw).

Ricci.

Last edited by Ricci; 10-30-2009 at 05:16 AM..
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:59 PM   #7
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I am begining to believe that the 11T pinion may generate more friction that 14T or 15T pinion even if it is the same modulus.

Tomorrow I will do some more pinion test and let you guys know.

Ricci.
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Old 10-29-2009, 09:32 PM   #8
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11t at 100%

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Old 10-30-2009, 05:19 AM   #9
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Thanks Dieselracer, I have already seen your impressive video and I know how powerful is this motor.

Did you have to lower 5mm the motor so the pinion would be at the correct high on the main gear?

Do you fill a bit more resistance of this motor when pushing the rotor by hand and everything off?

Thanks,

Ricci.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post
Thanks Dieselracer, I have already seen your impressive video and I know how powerful is this motor.

Did you have to lower 5mm the motor so the pinion would be at the correct high on the main gear?

Do you fill a bit more resistance of this motor when pushing the rotor by hand and everything off?

Thanks,

Ricci.
No we use the Pinion from readyheli. That is drilled through. that way we don't have to cut the shaft.

I am not sure what you mean by the resistance. When spinning the main gear, it does feel different then the stock motor.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:44 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by dieselracer View Post
I am not sure what you mean by the resistance. When spinning the main gear, it does feel different then the stock motor.
I mean that I have to push a little harder the flybar by hand in order to turn the rotor because either the motor or the pinion offers more resistance than with the stock motor installed.

The pinion mesh is OK, but maybe there is a difference because it only has 11T.

Thanks,

Ricardo.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:54 AM   #12
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I agree, it's a little tougher to spin it by hand, but not significantly. I think part of it is the smaller pinion and part of it is the 4 pole. One thing you should keep an eye out for is your main gear wearing. After flying 50 or so flights on mine, I'm starting to see uneven wear on the gear. I also stripped a main gear when pushing it to hard during tick-tocks. I have since added the 3rd bearing block and haven't stripped a gear since.

I actually caught it on video:
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Old 10-30-2009, 11:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shef View Post
I agree, it's a little tougher to spin it by hand, but not significantly. I think part of it is the smaller pinion and part of it is the 4 pole. One thing you should keep an eye out for is your main gear wearing. After flying 50 or so flights on mine, I'm starting to see uneven wear on the gear. I also stripped a main gear when pushing it to hard during tick-tocks. I have since added the 3rd bearing block and haven't stripped a gear since.

I actually caught it on video:
YouTube - T-Rex 600 ESP VBAR
Very cool video Shef.

Does this motor get very hot (even with the fan cooling system)?

My main concern about the extra-resistance of the motor is that is may generate more heat...

Also in my first spool up test (in my home office) it does get quite warm after 30 seconds...

Ricci.
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Old 10-30-2009, 05:18 PM   #14
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Hot? Absolutely NOT....barely gets warm! I have lots of Eagle Tree graphs in one of my albums that shows the temp.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:28 PM   #15
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Well, mine is getting up to 150 F after only 90 seconds, so I should be using bad values on my CC ICE 100.

Can you please indicate me your PWM rate, Motor Timing and Motor Start Power values?

I'm quite frustrated because this ESC is cutting off the motor after some 90 seconds.

My first test values were:

PWM rate = 12 KHz
Motor Timing = 1
Motor Start Power = 39 (Low)

I raised my Motor Timing to Normal (5) but cannot test it again until Tomorrow.

Thanks in advance,

Ricci.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:32 PM   #16
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If you spool it up indoors with no blades the motor will run much hotter.Actually any motor for the matter. even though it does have a fan, It gets most of its cooling from the outside air. Once you run it outside in the air, it wont run hot. When i balance my tail blades on the heli with not head on it. The main motor does feel hot. But it never gets that hot in flight.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselracer View Post
If you spool it up indoors with no blades the motor will run much hotter.Actually any motor for the matter. even though it does have a fan, It gets most of its cooling from the outside air. Once you run it outside in the air, it wont run hot. When i balance my tail blades on the heli with not head on it. The main motor does feel hot. But it never gets that hot in flight.
Yes you're absolutuely right on the motor temp Dieselracer, Tomorrow I wil try it outside with blades.

Can anybody confirm me the appropiate frecuency (should be 12 Khz) and timing values for the NEU 1515H / 2.5 DF?

Thanks,

Ricci.
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Old 10-30-2009, 11:08 PM   #18
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I left frequency default. And for timming Steve Neu recommends low.
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:44 AM   #19
Ricci
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselracer View Post
I left frequency default. And for timming Steve Neu recommends low.
Thanks Dieselracer for the feddback, I was running the timing at normal, so I will test it now at low.

My first real test flight with this motor in the morning is really promising, I can feel the power even if I just did some hover (no much room to fly) .
Howerer, the electricity consumption is also a bit higher, so maybe the lower timing will improve this aspect a bit.

Cheers,

Ricci.
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Old 11-01-2009, 04:51 AM   #20
Ricci
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Is it necessary to grease the NEU motor bearings periodically?

With oil or grease?

Thanks,

Ricci.
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