600 NSP Jerky in HH but not Rate Mode

mrradman · 10-22-2009, 04:06 PM

Looking for help - did search but found nothing that helps.

Setup:

600NSP
Quick metal tail
Align carbon tail blades
OS 50 with MP5 SB
AR7100R running 2S lipo
610s on collective
Spartan 760 with BLS 251
Futaba 14MZ with Spektrum module

Used helicopter "had only three flights" prior to me buying. Have run-in OS 50 - started at 1.5 turns on high now at 1.25 turns - 5 tanks on CP-30. Engine running well - good smoke, good power, temp good. Spartan mounted in front of collective servos on tray using the supplied foam and metal plate. All wires are bundled in recess just in front/below tray and above the throttle and rudder servo.

Problem:

Power up radio in HH, switch to rate - coupled to switch glow, start engine, switch back to HH, lift heli of ground tail twitchy with a propensity to twitch to the right. No sub trim, trim on rudder channel. Switch to rate and all is well smooth as butter. Have adjusted gain on HH up and down doesn't change anything at 35% AVCS (HH) now in 14MZ gyro menu. BTW, rate mode is at about 35% too.

Any Ideas on this? What I'm I missing?

ToMeToYou · 10-22-2009, 04:29 PM

Maybe a dodgy gyro pad causing the vibrations from the engine to transfer to the gyro?

Just a maybe..

srhadden · 10-22-2009, 04:44 PM

Is there at least 2 inches of slack of cable coming from the gyro? If this was built by someone else, you should go through the entire gyro setup again. Take off the links to the tail, make sure it is mechanically smooth, then re-program the gyro and set endpoints, set proper speed for the gyro you are using, etc...

mrradman · 10-22-2009, 05:03 PM

Thanks for the help. I took the heli down and checked everything. All electrics put on new by me - engine and airframe was the only thing used. The spartan has about 2.5" of slack on wire. The foam padding was new out of the spartan box.

Some more data - the head speed is at 1800 by adjusting the throttle curve - not using the rev limiter yet. No visable vibrations on vertical or horizontal tail. Blade tracking perfect - paddle tracking perfect. It flys smooth in rate mode just not in HH - I do have to put in a smidge of left rudder to keep the tail where i want it but that's because i've not readjusted for heads free on the mechanical. BTW - I get the blue solid light at power up and any time I switch back to HH. Gyro adjusted to 90 90 on the limits.

mrradman · 10-22-2009, 05:11 PM

More

The spartan is rev 2.0. receiver bound with gain set to 5% stick centered. Diagnostic (Spartan computer software) has the gyro centering at ~1515. Every other parameter in setup menu (computer) default except limits at 90 90, as mentioned above.

srhadden · 10-22-2009, 05:20 PM

Sounds like you were very thorough, that covers a lot of ground. Have you looked at the Spartan FAQ to see if they mention anything you could be missing? They have a pretty good support page.

If you're in heading hold with the heli off, is the servo working properly? It isn't twitching on it's own, right? Did you give it a little finger force and move the rudder to see if the gears are stripped or "off" in some way?

chadjay · 10-22-2009, 05:46 PM

Not sure why you are switching the gyro from HH to rate to start engine? Not needed at all. No need to use/setup rate mode either, unless you are going to fly a scale bird like a huey or something.

Just set up gyro in HH mode and forget it. Mine never comes out of HH mode and I have never have a problem.

mrradman · 10-22-2009, 06:04 PM

I have a switchglo and a 7 channel receiver therefore there is a Y connector at the gain to get the switchglo to turn on for 10 seconds so that I can start the bird. Switch back to HH after the start.

I have reviewed the FAQs at Spartan - nothing.

chadjay · 10-22-2009, 06:20 PM

The only thing I can think of is the switch glow is somehow causing a problem with the gyro gain. I have never used a futaba radio either so I'm not sure how their gyro menu works.

There could be an issue with the mechanical setup. Maybe the ball link needs to be moved on the servo wheel of rudder.

mrradman · 10-22-2009, 06:30 PM

I'll try it with the switchglow disconnected. Thanks for any help on this.

10-22-2009, 04:06 PM	#1
mrradman Registered Users Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: SF, CA	600 NSP Jerky in HH but not Rate Mode Looking for help - did search but found nothing that helps. Setup: 600NSP Quick metal tail Align carbon tail blades OS 50 with MP5 SB AR7100R running 2S lipo 610s on collective Spartan 760 with BLS 251 Futaba 14MZ with Spektrum module Used helicopter "had only three flights" prior to me buying. Have run-in OS 50 - started at 1.5 turns on high now at 1.25 turns - 5 tanks on CP-30. Engine running well - good smoke, good power, temp good. Spartan mounted in front of collective servos on tray using the supplied foam and metal plate. All wires are bundled in recess just in front/below tray and above the throttle and rudder servo. Problem: Power up radio in HH, switch to rate - coupled to switch glow, start engine, switch back to HH, lift heli of ground tail twitchy with a propensity to twitch to the right. No sub trim, trim on rudder channel. Switch to rate and all is well smooth as butter. Have adjusted gain on HH up and down doesn't change anything at 35% AVCS (HH) now in 14MZ gyro menu. BTW, rate mode is at about 35% too. Any Ideas on this? What I'm I missing?

10-22-2009, 04:29 PM	#2
ToMeToYou Registered Users Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: West Midlands, UK	Maybe a dodgy gyro pad causing the vibrations from the engine to transfer to the gyro? Just a maybe.. __________________ Trex 600N Pro / Align 2 in 1 / DS610 cyclic / DS610 throttle / CY ATG / GY401 & S9254 with step down Trex 500 CF / Stock motor and esc / 15T pinion/ GY401 & S9254/ Revolectrix 5s 4200mah / AR7000 / Trex 250/ DS410 Cyclic/ Align GP760 S9257/Microheli tail / I Spektrum DX7 - Cellpro 10s I

10-22-2009, 04:44 PM	#3
srhadden Registered Users Join Date: Jun 2008	Is there at least 2 inches of slack of cable coming from the gyro? If this was built by someone else, you should go through the entire gyro setup again. Take off the links to the tail, make sure it is mechanically smooth, then re-program the gyro and set endpoints, set proper speed for the gyro you are using, etc... __________________ T-REX 600 SNP: Stock Blades, OS 55HZ Hyper, Hyper Pipe, 9254 Cyclic , BLS251 w/ Spartan 760, Align 2-1, MultiGov w/Spektrum RPM backplate sensor

10-22-2009, 05:20 PM	#6
srhadden Registered Users Join Date: Jun 2008	Sounds like you were very thorough, that covers a lot of ground. Have you looked at the Spartan FAQ to see if they mention anything you could be missing? They have a pretty good support page. If you're in heading hold with the heli off, is the servo working properly? It isn't twitching on it's own, right? Did you give it a little finger force and move the rudder to see if the gears are stripped or "off" in some way? __________________ T-REX 600 SNP: Stock Blades, OS 55HZ Hyper, Hyper Pipe, 9254 Cyclic , BLS251 w/ Spartan 760, Align 2-1, MultiGov w/Spektrum RPM backplate sensor

10-22-2009, 05:46 PM	#7
chadjay Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Van Wert, Ohio	Not sure why you are switching the gyro from HH to rate to start engine? Not needed at all. No need to use/setup rate mode either, unless you are going to fly a scale bird like a huey or something. Just set up gyro in HH mode and forget it. Mine never comes out of HH mode and I have never have a problem. __________________ <<450SE V2, CC35, Kong Power 3S 25C 2200, 430XL, 401 w/9650, HS65MG, tail weight mod>> <<Blade MCX with glow-in-the-dark setup, carbon fiber canopy>> <<Yellow 600SNP, 8717s, 770 & 8900G, AR7100, Multigov Pro, Align 2 in 1(used for glow driver only)>>

10-22-2009, 05:03 PM	#4
mrradman Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: SF, CA	Thanks for the help. I took the heli down and checked everything. All electrics put on new by me - engine and airframe was the only thing used. The spartan has about 2.5" of slack on wire. The foam padding was new out of the spartan box. Some more data - the head speed is at 1800 by adjusting the throttle curve - not using the rev limiter yet. No visable vibrations on vertical or horizontal tail. Blade tracking perfect - paddle tracking perfect. It flys smooth in rate mode just not in HH - I do have to put in a smidge of left rudder to keep the tail where i want it but that's because i've not readjusted for heads free on the mechanical. BTW - I get the blue solid light at power up and any time I switch back to HH. Gyro adjusted to 90 90 on the limits.

10-22-2009, 05:11 PM	#5
mrradman Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: SF, CA	More The spartan is rev 2.0. receiver bound with gain set to 5% stick centered. Diagnostic (Spartan computer software) has the gyro centering at ~1515. Every other parameter in setup menu (computer) default except limits at 90 90, as mentioned above.

10-22-2009, 06:04 PM	#8
mrradman Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: SF, CA	I have a switchglo and a 7 channel receiver therefore there is a Y connector at the gain to get the switchglo to turn on for 10 seconds so that I can start the bird. Switch back to HH after the start. I have reviewed the FAQs at Spartan - nothing.

10-22-2009, 06:20 PM	#9
chadjay Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Van Wert, Ohio	The only thing I can think of is the switch glow is somehow causing a problem with the gyro gain. I have never used a futaba radio either so I'm not sure how their gyro menu works. There could be an issue with the mechanical setup. Maybe the ball link needs to be moved on the servo wheel of rudder. __________________ <<450SE V2, CC35, Kong Power 3S 25C 2200, 430XL, 401 w/9650, HS65MG, tail weight mod>> <<Blade MCX with glow-in-the-dark setup, carbon fiber canopy>> <<Yellow 600SNP, 8717s, 770 & 8900G, AR7100, Multigov Pro, Align 2 in 1(used for glow driver only)>>

10-22-2009, 06:30 PM	#10
mrradman Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: SF, CA	I'll try it with the switchglow disconnected. Thanks for any help on this.

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