Ditched the flybar weights and started flipping!

[silas3d]

A couple of weeks ago I took off the flybar weights, summoned up some courage, and started flipping. Started with backwards, then sideways, then forwards, then I had to land to let my thumbs calm back down... This is a great hobby! I'm now thinking about hovering inverted and am curious as to what you have found to be the easiest way to get into an inverted hover?

[Ah Clem]

I usually roll it to inverted from forward flight and come in for an inverted landing approach, without (hopefully) the actual landing.

I found it was easier to fly around inverted than to hover inverted, so I flew around quite a while before I hovered inverted (I know, probably backwards).

[outhouse]

before you start getting into inverted make sure you have your flips down pat. this will be your bail out move.

after that get some altitude and just roll foward like your entering a flip and pause half way through, hold it for a second and finish your loop. keep at this and start holding the half flip longer and longer. took me a year of practice before i could control it and start with FF hey but im a slow learner

[J-MICHAEL]

I usually roll it to inverted from forward flight and come in for an inverted landing approach, without (hopefully) the actual landing.

I found it was easier to fly around inverted than to hover inverted, so I flew around quite a while before I hovered inverted (I know, probably backwards).

after that get some altitude and just roll foward like your entering a flip and pause half way through, hold it for a second and finish your loop. keep at this and start holding the half flip longer and longer. took me a year of practice before i could control it and start with FF

I've been dying to try to get the 450 just inverted even if just a few seconds from the ideas you two just gave. My flips are ok, but not the greatest but everytime I get the stones to try to hang it inverted while the heli is moving in forward flight or at the top of a loop, I chicken out like a little skool gurl...! Dang it...!

~ Jeff

[outhouse]

you missed the first sentence, have your flips down pat

if you have the flips down pat and your comfortable you will start holding it longer.

heres another way. start your flip but just pause the cyclic when its inverted and level for a a split second. keep doing this over and over and it will feel natural.

slowly increase your pauses.

[J-MICHAEL]

Thanks Outhouse for the tips.... I saw the first sentence, and that's why I think I chicken out with trying to hold a inverted stance for even a few seconds, as my stationary flips are just sloppy period. I can do them much better if the heli is in forward flight however, and so I may try and hold the heli inverted for a second or two while doing one of those maybe.

Its always nerve racking, when wanting to try something for the first time for me ! I over analyze, and then just mess up on the sticks.... Eh....!

I'll try and work on what you suggested though for sure.... Thanks bud.


~ Jeff

[Robban]

Hi this might be a dumb newbe question but what does the weights do?

[J-MICHAEL]

Hi this might be a dumb newbe question but what does the weights do?

No worries.... There never is a dumb question, but the flybar weights just help aid in stability of the helicopter. They also will help slow the cyclic response down making things "calmer" for like a beginner. There could be more reasons, but I can't think of any right now.

On a negative note, since those weights add weight, there is now more "mass" for the motor to swing which then results also in slightly less run-time, warmer component temps, possible added bogging during certain maneuvers, and they just look butt-ugly ! But certainly a nice little tool to help someone getting started with the addition of even some training gear. Whatever it takes, as we all had to start somewhere right ?!

Others can add, as I'am still a new pilot myself, and I'am sure I missed something !


~ Jeff

[lazsyss350]

heres what helped me learn to fly inverted, and just so you know each crash cost me nothing, RealFlight simulator g4.5

[J-MICHAEL]

heres what helped me learn to fly inverted, and just so you know each crash cost me nothing, RealFlight simulator g4.5

Dang I know ! I think if I didn't also have G4.5 I'd be one broke pilot...! Plus it helps curb my addiction some if I'am unable to fly and so I can get on there to help cure the shakes from being grounded to long... (LMAO)...

BTW.... If your location is Arlington, Washington I grew up there and lived there for 15 years. I use to have some friends that lived in Arlington Heights... I also graduated from Arlington High school. Now I live on the Penninsula where the river fishing, & hunting is the finest, but I do miss my old hometown in Arlington. I was just over that way about a month ago for a month fishing the pee outta the Skagit River. And yes.... I had brought my heli's with me ! Found some cool flying spots, and met a few local flyers from there. It was neat to see other flyers, as over here on the Peninsula I don't know anybody that fly's... Its a bummer...


Cheers,

~ Jeff

[outhouse]

simming a flip and teh real thing are so different for me. it didnt help.

as far as weights go you can leave them in. the extra stability will help, 2 years in my gorilla paddles still have full weights and i can roll and tumble all over the sky in tight patterns.

once you get good you can pop them out and it will spin on a dime but be prepared to up your concentration level.

[silas3d]

Thanks for all the tips. I'll definitely keep practicing on the sim.

One other thing I did when I took the weights off was to use 10% expo on the cyclic. Ends up feeling about the same during hovering and slow FF.

[J-MICHAEL]

Thanks for all the tips. I'll definitely keep practicing on the sim.

One other thing I did when I took the weights off was to use 10% expo on the cyclic. Ends up feeling about the same during hovering and slow FF.

I wish I would have learned to use Expo when I was first starting out. I just started using it with the DX7 about 3 months ago and experimenting with it with different set-ups. It sure is great...

Whenever I want that little bit of an edge for trying a new move, I'll even add in some negative Expo on the DX7 just to make sure the job gets done until I know what to expect, and then I'll boost it back up a bit so the heli isn't so touchy after the matter.

For instance just a month ago I did my first barrel rolls. Being nervous although confident after practicing on G4, and having no weights and the lighter paddles I still added - 10% for the Aile, Ele, and Rudder. That was one sensitive heli ! But it made the rolls come out decent. The first 2 were ok, but the ones that followed after I got it down made the heli rotate within its own axis like it was on a skew. They even came out as multiple barrel rolls and I still don't know how that happened, but the ultra sensitive heli probably helped for sure. I now run about 15% expo for the Aile, Ele, and the Rudder and prefer that whether my set-up is mild or wild. I'am constantly changing components for play....

You can see one of my first rolls from the GIF below... Depending on your PC's speed, it might take a minute for the 50 images to download for it depending :





Just keep practicing on the sim, it helps as a general. Take it from me, as I'am only a weekend flyer and only fly in real life about 7 or 8 times a month and sometimes not even that. I record all my flights. Here was the video to my first barrel rolls where the GIF was taken from. Tonight I'am putting back in my Scorpion motor and my Castle 80 amp esc. I can't wait, and I'am done experimenting... I've been running my little Align 430L and a dinky gutted E-Flite 25 amp ESC and running smaller batts than usual. Today with a 13c 3-cell 1320 mah Thunder Power Prolite which only weighs 87 grams I got a 6 1/2 minute flight of sport flying. The T-450 was ultra light ! 657 grams RTF with that battery. I was wanting to try an auto from up high since it was lighter, but chickened out ! .... Eh....!

My settings for the craft are listed on the description by the video on You-Tube. Full screen version is the best to watch if you click the video below a few times :

YouTube - Trex 450 First Barrel Rolls

YouTube - Trex 450 First Barrel Rolls

~ Jeff

[rcflier1]

i,m doing flips , rolls, loops and now breaking into inverted. so far i,ve been too lazy to remove the weights. i can't believe i,d see a big difference

[J-MICHAEL]

i,m doing flips , rolls, loops and now breaking into inverted. so far i,ve been too lazy to remove the weights. i can't believe i,d see a big difference

And you may not... To many variables to say. But as a general rule of thumb, yes you will feel a difference to a degree... For me though its all about the details. With my small little 300 watt Align 430L motor, I notice a big diff on having those 2 little flybar weights on there that weigh about 1.5 grams a piece. With my 500 watt Common-Sense motor, or my 525 watt -6 V2 Scorpion motor, maybe not so much... But it all comes down to the more weight that motor has to swing the more the negative effect is going to be small, or large... Weight in any matter is only working against you unless you need it for some wind flying, or achieving some super fast forward flight in which you then gain in that dept. The weights on the flybar do help the heli become more stable however, but with the tiny negative drawbacks. A process of give and take so to speak... Or for every action, there's an opposite reaction if that make sense...

Take a car as an example, and throwing on some heavy ol' chrome rims on her. Its going to slow the effect of the cars ability to accelerate, corner and brake. But again for even just the small weights on the heli's flybar its all the little things combined on the heli which add up to bigger results.

When I use my -6 Scorpion motor with a 80 amp esc (yes overkill) and I use my stock 6.28 gram flybar paddles compared to 3.87 gram CPP paddles, I lose about 45 seconds of flight time. And I feel the bog more... It would be similiar to having 4 flybar weights on. Me no likey, but that's my personal preference. I took my flybar weights off right before I even went into forward flight. Think of training gear...Yeah the lower center of gravity helps make the heli stable, but also taking them off does in a sense also from the more control the heli then grabs from them being off, and the added drag removed. Same scenario from a low headspeed to a high headspeed. Both to a degree can make the heli more stable in a sense.


http://www.4dproducts.co.za/c96/Flybar-Setup.aspx


The flybar response can be tuned as follows:
Faster response
- Lighter paddles
- Larger paddles
- Faster RPM/headspeed
- Longer flybar (more leverage until flex becomes a negating factor)
- Rearward CG of the paddle
- Sharper leading edge for more bite

Slower response
- Heavier paddles
- Smaller paddles
- Less RPM/Lower headspeed
- Shorter flybar (good to a point before the flybar system is too light)
- Foreword CG of the paddle
- Less sharp leading edge

And you can add flybar weights to the slower response category, as well as longer main blades, heavier main blades like those plastic jobbers, also having a heavy heli which makes the disc-loading higher, etc. etc. With the 450 being a small heli, the small stuff does matter. Or at least, it all adds up if neglected.


Slow response :




Quicker response :

[J-MICHAEL]

There was a flight I did that I almost had the 450 take a dirt nap... If I was running my small little Align 430L with added clutter like flybar weights on, I wouldn't have been able to recover like I did in the short video below, just to use as another example :

YouTube - Trex 450 "Morning Adrenalin Rush" Who needs coffee ?

YouTube - Trex 450 "Morning Adrenalin Rush" Who needs coffee ?

[silas3d]

Yeah I did a few tentative flips with the weights on, then I moved them in about halfway along the flybar shaft (they were out by the paddles) and I didn't notice a big difference. Once I took them off though I did notice that the heli seemed quite a bit more responsive.

Another thing that made a HUGE difference was switching to carbon blades!

[lazsyss350]

Originally Posted by J-MICHAEL

Dang I know ! I think if I didn't also have G4.5 I'd be one broke pilot...! Plus it helps curb my addiction some if I'am unable to fly and so I can get on there to help cure the shakes from being grounded to long... (LMAO)...

BTW.... If your location is Arlington, Washington I grew up there and lived there for 15 years. I use to have some friends that lived in Arlington Heights... I also graduated from Arlington High school. Now I live on the Penninsula where the river fishing, & hunting is the finest, but I do miss my old hometown in Arlington. I was just over that way about a month ago for a month fishing the pee outta the Skagit River. And yes.... I had brought my heli's with me ! Found some cool flying spots, and met a few local flyers from there. It was neat to see other flyers, as over here on the Peninsula I don't know anybody that fly's... Its a bummer...


Cheers,

~ Jeff

no, i live in IL, Arlington Hts is a suburb of chicago, sorry to bum you out even more, im always looking for new friends to go flying with, my daughter is only 3 and when i take her with me all she wants to do is play with her dolls,

[Wolfpackin]

...my daughter is only 3 and when i take her with me all she wants to do is play with her dolls,

Don't feel bad, I have a 4 and 5 1/2 year old boys and when I take them flying with me all they want to do is throw rocks.

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by Wolfpackin

Don't feel bad, I have a 4 and 5 1/2 year old boys and when I take them flying with me all they want to do is throw rocks.

LOL, at your heli?
Rick