Grip flip done - Dead easy LE control

[pril250]

Just done the blade grip flip to leading edge pitch control. Never guessed how eay it is, just undo the two screws holding the rockers, undo one feathering shaft screw, flip the grips and Bobs your uncle. Just put it all back together in reverse order, install the blades not forgetting that now the nut goes on the top, test fly, job done

Oh and don't forget to reverse the swash mix polarity

The only thing with this conversion is the time it takes to do...a whole 10 minutes.

The advantages of LE control were already discussed on this forum, Sokal definitly recommends it be done

[T/CHunter2009]

Do you really feel the difference. ? I have seen some post on this before , but never really got into it , I figured it was too far advance for me. But maybe not? Might have to recall the link and check it out.

[pril250]

Originally Posted by T/CHunter2009

Do you really feel the difference. ? I have seen some post on this before , but never really got into it , I figured it was too far advance for me. But maybe not? Might have to recall the link and check it out.

Can't say I have yet, only got it to a hover to ascertain every thing works as before the mod and that the geometry hasn't changed. It will be a while before the weather will thor out here for me to take her out on a proper flight.

I think the gist of the discussions on the subject was easier work for the cyclic servos on account of less resistance and an improved pitch change response in terms of reduced lag. Those sort of suttleties will only get expressed under the extrmest of flight envelopes I guess. So it is quite feasable that no or very little real change will be noticed. At least this standardises the way the head works with most other helis.

[snooker43]

I have about 100 flights now after flipping the grips.
The difference I noticed was my turns seemed to be smoother and easier to maintain a consistent altitude during the turn. Don't see any downside to trying it.

Recently I have tried flipping the mixer arms and the Axe CP paddles to increase cyclic response. Together it was too much for me. Hard to control. Flipped the mixer arms back to stock, running the Axe paddles now and experimenting with expo to get the feel I want. Got to fly some more packs to decide if I like it or not. It is a bit twitchy. Too much wind lately to get much stick time.

[singingperry]

Somehow I missed ever hearing about grip flipping, tell me about it.

[pril250]

Originally Posted by singingperry

Somehow I missed ever hearing about grip flipping, tell me about it.

Basically on the Blade when you increase collective the swash plate travels downwards thus controlling the trailing end (TE Control) of the blades. Most helis work the opposite, increase collective, swash goes up to control the leading edge (LE Control) of the blades. This is considered more efficient as it is perceived it takes less effort from the servos and reduces lag. In addition the heli becomes standardised in this respect.

This is acheived by flipping the grips and changing swash mix polarity, pretty easy to do. Providing your head was set up correctly and dialled in there should be no difference and no further adjustments are necessary.

[Cailid]

Originally Posted by pril250

Basically on the Blade when you increase collective the swash plate travels downwards thus controlling the trailing end (TE Control) of the blades. Most helis work the opposite, increase collective, swash goes up to control the leading edge (LE Control) of the blades. This is considered more efficient as it is perceived it takes less effort from the servos and reduces lag. In addition the heli becomes standardised in this respect.

This is acheived by flipping the grips and changing swash mix polarity, pretty easy to do. Providing your head was set up correctly and dialled in there should be no difference and no further adjustments are necessary.

Doesn't the Trex swash move opposite to the blades? It's trailing edge control.

[supra6]

On a Rex to get positive pitch the swash moves up and also has trailing edge control. The difference is on the Blade the pitch control from the swash is direct to the grip, on a Rex the links from the swash go to another set of seeswa arms just below the feathering shaft.which reverses the motion direction.

[pril250]

Originally Posted by supra6

On a Rex to get positive pitch the swash moves up and also has trailing edge control. The difference is on the Blade the pitch control from the swash is direct to the grip, on a Rex the links from the swash go to another set of seeswa arms just below the feathering shaft.which reverses the motion direction.

+1.

[exit44rc]

Does anyone have any more news to report on this subject? pril250, how is the heli flying since flipping the grips? Do you still have them flipped or have you flipped them back to stock config?

I'm thinking about giving it a try to get a little more pop out of the cyclic. I can get the heli to flip front and back pretty quick but not sideways/roll.

Does anyone have a link to Sokal's posts on the subject?

[1320fastback]

I flipped mine a while ago but am still doing only basic FF. I cant see any reason to NOT flip them.

[exit44rc]

I just answered my own question about the thread link. This is a good one from the blade 400 bible:

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=89346

[exit44rc]

Well, I got my grips and mixers flipped according to the article that I previously mentioned. First of all I'd like to say 'thank you' to sparx- for a great description of the idea behind it and the detail that he provided on how to accomplish it. I followed option four of his article and the grip and mixer flipping was very easy. The hard part was adjusting the head (particularly mixer-to-swash links) and then adjusting the settings in the TX so as to eliminate binding in the head. All in all it probably took me an hour.

I took it out and flew it on Sunday a couple of times and again today and I have to say that the difference is big. I now understand completely the benefits.

Right off the bat I noticed a huge difference in collective pitch 'pop'. The heli now responds very decisively to collective movements. This is a huge improvement over stock and probably my favorite one.

My first four flights were with the stock flybar paddles. I had previously removed them and replaced them with the Axe paddles to give the heli a faster flip rate. I decided to use them for the first flights because I wanted the extra stability. Once again I quickly found that I did not like them. Even with the flipped mixers the heli had too much latency in flips, so I switched back to the Axe paddles and took it out again.

With this setup, I wouldn't call the heli "unstable" but it is sure a handful to hover. Forward flight, both upright and inverted, is awesome, though. The machine will now flip on a dime, frontwards, backwards, and sideways (rolls) which is exactly what I had been wanting.

I doubt the B400 will ever be a great 3D heli, but these changes sure do make a huge difference... especially for the price: Flipped grips and mixers (free), Axe paddles ($3 or $4). The only other non-stock item that I have on the machine is a JR DS920G tail servo ($35), everything else is stock.

[Capt. Speirs]

How does all this play out on a Sonix head? Curious, considering getting the Sonix head and tail combo.

[Ronbo]

I finally flipped my grips option 3, and what flying i got in today i noticed the collective was very snappy plus no bogging of headspeed at full pitch. it sounded just right at full collective. I will try the mixer flip here soon.