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Old 03-08-2010, 08:02 AM   #1
splitboarder
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Default Autotrim for Swash Level?

Im about ready to test fly my 600 with the helicommand for the second time. I have moved my module to the rear of the frame for less vibrations

I set up the swash with my swash leveling tool on the main shaft. With 50 percent input the swash was pretty level but the aileron servo was a little low. It was low at 0 percent and low at 100 percent

I then simulated a hover with my sticks with the HC off . I used the sticks to hold the swash level for 8 seconds then hit auto trim.

My swash now moves level through the pitch curve , blades are at 0 degrees with 50 percent input. I have +10 degress pitch at 100 percent and -10 and 0 percent.

The helicommand moves the swash in the correct directions and it responds correctly when the horizontal mode is activated.

I am using the internal gyro with HH gain set to 21

Horizontal position gain is at 70 percent.

I think Im ready

Wish me luck

If the heli is tail heavy Im assuming it will come back as it lifts off with HC off correct?
I can then hover for 8 seconds and hit auto trim again ?

Thanks
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:51 AM   #2
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Waiting in anticipation for your impressions
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:06 AM   #3
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Hey Splitboarder,,

Would you call me?

I'll pm you my cell number and will make myself available at 10 am this morning (Monday)

Or tell me a time that works for you.

Looking forward to hearing from you Buddy

We can go over details as I'll have my bird and software open

My anticipation builds as well pril250

Mel
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:11 AM   #4
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Cant do that untill this evening Mel. Work on a navy base so no cell coverage and no long distance calls from the shop. But I will be home around 6-7 pm and I will PM you with my number

Thanks
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:21 PM   #5
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Default It's a date

PM replied too.

You're on the 1 yard line and about to enter Heaven.

Then you'll be inspiring others as did those before us

As our HC flight community holds their collective breath.....

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Cant do that untill this evening Mel. Work on a navy base so no cell coverage and no long distance calls from the shop. But I will be home around 6-7 pm and I will PM you with my number

Thanks
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:48 PM   #6
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Hi Just a couple of points. Autotrim will change the trim setting values in the software you are also able to change the values with the curser and save.
If the heli is tail heavy you need to correct this, using a lot of trim to correct an out of balance heli will work against you if you invert.
As soon as you hit autotrim centre the stick or you may find the heli will move suddenly the first time you use it this is because helicommand takes an average of what you have been doing with the sticks and as soon as you hit autotrim it sets that average as centre so if your still holding the stick it will suddenly go in the direction the sticks are telling it to, hope this makes sence. When trim is close this no longer happens. Hope this helps Ivor
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:01 PM   #7
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Thanks Ivor. I think Im pretty close because when I power up the Heli with the HC off the swash is sitting level. When I change to Horizontal mode the swash stays level too.
My only worry will be where is the tail going to go on the first spool up. Im in HH so hopefully it wont be an issue.

I think what you said about autotrim is what happened the first time I tried the HC.

Im hoping I will be ok because when I hit autotrim on the bench I did have the sticks centered.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitboarder View Post
Thanks Ivor. I think Im pretty close because when I power up the Heli with the HC off the swash is sitting level. When I change to Horizontal mode the swash stays level too.
My only worry will be where is the tail going to go on the first spool up. Im in HH so hopefully it wont be an issue.

I think what you said about autotrim is what happened the first time I tried the HC.

Im hoping I will be ok because when I hit autotrim on the bench I did have the sticks centered.
Watch the heli very carefully as you increase throttle and look for adverse movements. You will know when you are light on the skids if the tail is a problem or not. The tail needs to be set up in normal mode and then set travel and switch to HH. To much gain and the heli will dance in pos mode and in extreme cases flip onto its side. I normally set the gain so that the heli dances just a little and then reduce untill it stops. If I'm setting up for a newby I set it to dance a little when close to the ground in pos mode and leave it like that, it will stop dancing when you are 2-3 feet in the air and holds pos better. Gain in hor mode is not so critical.
I normally find its necessary to give a little right aileron and rudder on lift off.
Good luck and dont take any chances if you dont think its right stop and tell us whats happening. Ivor
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:27 PM   #9
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Despite what Ivor says about taking off in Pos mode it is far safer, until you are used to it, to either take off with HC off or in Hor mode.
If you have a slider that you are using for mode changes then altering the gain can be done relatively easy. If you are using Travel Adjust (End Points) then you have to set this up ready to change before you take off. I suppose it all depends on if you are happy changing switches and dials whilst trying to fly.

Ian
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:38 PM   #10
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I dont have the option of position mode. I am only using off and Horizontal. I will bring it up slow.

On tuesday. I have to visit the DMV today
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
Despite what Ivor says about taking off in Pos mode it is far safer, until you are used to it, to either take off with HC off or in Hor mode.
If you have a slider that you are using for mode changes then altering the gain can be done relatively easy. If you are using Travel Adjust (End Points) then you have to set this up ready to change before you take off. I suppose it all depends on if you are happy changing switches and dials whilst trying to fly.

Ian
I have not told him to take off in pos mode. Just explained what to expect if he does. But having said that I always set up in pos mode with both flymentor and helicommand and have never had a problem but do know that it's a little more risky if the gain is set to high. A lot of these systems are purchased by compleate beginners and for them the only way to do it is in pos mode. Ivor
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Old 03-09-2010, 02:13 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ivor Hill View Post
A lot of these systems are purchased by compleate beginners and for them the only way to do it is in pos mode. Ivor
I don't follow this line of reasoning. Why will they have to use Pos mode? Most people seem to program their Tx's to use a three position switch, even the Spectrums. It becomes more difficult when they want to use that switch for Idle up.

Ian
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:13 PM   #13
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I don't follow this line of reasoning. Why will they have to use Pos mode? Most people seem to program their Tx's to use a three position switch, even the Spectrums. It becomes more difficult when they want to use that switch for Idle up.

Ian
Because its far easier. Once helicommand and the heli are set up correctly the heli will hover with very little trimming. It is more difficult in hor mode because the heli will drift more and most guys test in there gardens or even indoors with no room for much drift. They want to set up the switches because sooner or later they want to change modes or switch it off.
I can and have let beginners hover one of my helis ( the non scale one ) in pos mode after a few minute of tuition and they manage it. Not so in hor mode.
I always set up HC and FM in pos mode and so do others without problems.
Ivor
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:33 AM   #14
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Now Guys, don't make your Students send you to your rooms

You both contribute soooo much to get us up and running,

Then, it's up to us to experiment and see what works best for us thru trial and error (hopefully more trial than error)

Mel
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navigator53 View Post
Then, it's up to us to experiment and see what works best for us thru trial and error (hopefully more trial than error)

Mel
+1 Mel!!
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:58 AM   #16
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I still have one question thats not too clear. My swash is level but only after I hit autotrim with it on the bench. My airleron servo arm is one tooth off from being at 90 degrees. I had a choice to set it too high or too low. I chose too low and sure enough when I turned on my heli and checked swash level with a leveling tool it was just a bit low.
Im still not clear on how to raise just the one servo. I know you guys have told me to trim it but Im still not clear on WHICH TRIM....I do know its not the trim in the radio or subtrim in the radio. I tried to lenthen the rod but HC just compensated and put the servo in the exact same spot. The only place I see you can move each servo is in the internal auto trim settings.
And after trimming when I look at my settings in the tab the aileron setting reads -39
The other two ( elevator and tail servo ) are at 1 and -3 .

Im ready to fly , my swash is level and thats the only thing Im still not clear on despite Ivor and Ian's and Mel's help ( thanks guys)

I guess the best way to ask would be how would you set up the swash if this were a brand new kit. Would you use Aligns ( Trex 600 ) suggested lengths?

Im asking because I do plan to do a step by step video and I want to get that part perfectly clear.

It may take one of you guys in the know to do a screen shot of your HC software , but then use paint or photoshop to put some red arrows on your screen grab to say " if your servo is low....adjust here"

Thanks


And of course we are blessed today with the wind from hell and all plans to test my HC are put off till friday or the weekend
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:02 PM   #17
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Hey Splitboarder,

In the abreviated version of Ian's PDF I sent to you "Field Guide Helicommand" on page 1 it says:


"Rather than trim manually, you simply hold a reasonably steady hover for 8 seconds, then activate the function.

The positions of the servos corresponding to the hover are averaged over these 8 seconds, and will be used by Helicommand as the perfect neutrals during the final signal mix.

This adjustment is stored even in the "Off" position."


In our phone conservation if I remembe right, your "auto trim" function is the gyro switch, remember we could change the internal settings just slighty by flipping the switch.

Don't mean to be too brief, but HC is calling me to fly

Mel
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:39 PM   #18
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I understand that Mel, but Im talking about first set up before you fly. I know both you and I did what we call " bench autotrim" but even in the internal autotrim settings there is no place I can see to move just the collective servo up. Maybe it is in adjusting the links.

I guess what Im saying is......you have a new heli , you build it, and adjust your rod lengths acording to Align. But you cant get you collective servo arm at 90 degrees. You turn on your heli with HC off , put a swash leveling tool on the shaft and find your collective is off a bit causing the swash to dip to the rear just a bit. What then? Rod adjustment? Or do you do what I did and pretend to hover the heli by watching the swash and keeping it level for 8 seconds then hitting autotrim? ( our bench autotrim)

or what if you cant use autotrim because you have a 6 channel radio? Do you adjust the trim in your radio or lenthen your rods?

Again..trying to get the proceedure down pat before I make a video with the wrong info or worse yet one that just make you go ......HUH ?
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by splitboarder View Post
I understand that Mel, but Im talking about first set up before you fly. I know both you and I did what we call " bench autotrim" but even in the internal autotrim settings there is no place I can see to move just the collective servo up. Maybe it is in adjusting the links.

I guess what Im saying is......you have a new heli , you build it, and adjust your rod lengths acording to Align. But you cant get you collective servo arm at 90 degrees. You turn on your heli with HC off , put a swash leveling tool on the shaft and find your collective is off a bit causing the swash to dip to the rear just a bit. What then? Rod adjustment? Or do you do what I did and pretend to hover the heli by watching the swash and keeping it level for 8 seconds then hitting autotrim? ( our bench autotrim)

or what if you cant use autotrim because you have a 6 channel radio? Do you adjust the trim in your radio or lenthen your rods?

Again..trying to get the proceedure down pat before I make a video with the wrong info or worse yet one that just make you go ......HUH ?
Hi If you adjust the aileron auto trim settings with the curser one servo will go up and the other down, so use it to set the aileron servos so that both the aileron arms are at the same angle, dont worry about 90 degees at the moment just make sure they are the same. Now use the curser on elevator and the two front servos will move one way and the rear the other. So useing a combination of these two settings you are able to set all servo arms at the same angle.
Now if you use collective pitch offset it will move all servos so you are able to get them all to 90 degrees. So useing these 3 setting you are able to set the sevos to 90 and get the swash level. Hope his makes sence. Ivor
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:14 PM   #20
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Perfect explaination Ivor. Now, I have a level swash ...but I do have one servo arm at a slightly differnt angle that the other two. Sounds like I need to worry about that first, then worry about my swash being level second.

How ever because my eyes are getting old I will try to set my arms at 90 degrees. The Trex 600 uses bell cranks so its really easy to see 90 degrees on the servo arms
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