Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Mikado Logo Helicopters


Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-28-2010, 07:13 PM   #1
nyc863
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,368
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2009
Location: sydney
Default 600SE vs 700 .. is it that different?

Alright I'm a bit skeptical of the way Mikado is stopping the 600SE short at 690mm main blades, and opening up their 700 category for 710s. Can someone explain why 690s are interesting, or if they are, why 710s are different?

Unless I'm confused, the difference between 690s and 710s is insubstantial. The rotor disc has less than a 6% greater area probably offset by a 50rpm drop in head speed.
compare to Logo 500 to 600 - the difference there is 44%!

Is a 690mm electric going to really be any different in the air, other than psychologically, from a 710mm? Why does anyone want a heli that can almost, but not quite, run 710s like all the nitro 90s run? And if you stretch the 600 home brew, why not just stretch it to 710s ..

Another point is the 500SE (another confusing release) at least swung 600s out of the box, so a 600SE, if it made any sense at all, should swing 710s out of the box.
__________________
http://www.helifleet.com/Justin <--- check out my fleet get your fleet online
nyc863 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 09:02 PM   #2
Maxime30
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Default

Stretched 600s are limited to 690mm blades because the only readilly availlable belt will allow the use of 690mm blades...

... And anything longer starts to be a little too long...(some get away with 710s but there's a risk that the blades will strike the tail rotor if running 105mm or longer tail blades)


I think the "real" 700 will have a torque tube driven tail.
Maxime30 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 09:36 PM   #3
dahld
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bakersfield, California, USA
Default

It all boils down to what size battery you want to run, and how much performance you want/need out of your machine. Mikado is giving pilots every possible combination.

Here's the line-up, from the bottom up (with design comments), in case you're visiting the Mikado forum, and new to the Mikado line:

Logo 500. 550-560mm blades on 6S, that can be set-up mild to very high performance.

Logo 500SE. 550-600mm blades on 6-8S, that can be set-up mild to semi-high performance (the boom is long enough to run 600mm blades, but the canopy is too short to run 10S packs).

Logo 600. 600-650mm blades on 6-10S, that can be set-up mild to maximum performance potential with 600mm blades on 10S (some now using smaller 12S packs).

Logo 600SE. 600-690mm blades on 10S, that can be set-up for easy going or high performance (same frame as the standard Logo 600, but longer boom to fit up to 690 blades). Not designed for the power punishing regiment of a full blown "700 class" 12S powered monster heli.

Logo 700 (coming). 690-710mm blades on 12S (or more?), that will be designed for top maximum performance by any standard.

There is overlap between the designs, and I think that is intentional by Mikado. Pick what works for you . There is something for everyone .

Dave
dahld is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 10:21 PM   #4
ChrisH
HF Support
 
Posts: 11,383
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CA
Default

VERY good overview Dave, but you left out the poor L400

Logo 400: 425/430mm blades on 6S. About the same weight as a T-Rex 500 but better kit quality and a lot stronger rotorhead and drivetrain. Basically a shortened Logo 10 designed to run 430mm instead of 500mm (original L10 design).
ChrisH is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 10:45 PM   #5
nyc863
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,368
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: May 2009
Location: sydney
Default

Ok,
but is flying 710mm really any different than 690s? or materially more stressful on the airframe and blade grips?

therefore, if you are going to stretch a 600, why not stretch it straight to a 710mm bird, the way a 500SE stretches straight to 600, not a "590".

Seems like you can get any length timing belt you want from SDP(?), so is that all it is? belt availability?

are you guys waiting eagerly for the official 700 because it will be stronger, meaning that a 600SE is actually a risk and right on the edge of material strength?
__________________
http://www.helifleet.com/Justin <--- check out my fleet get your fleet online
nyc863 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 11:11 PM   #6
OICU812
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,796
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Edson, Alberta, Canada
Default

I had two 600s streteched to 700 size ie: 690s last season, no issue even ran the HS round 2100 on mine and there was no fatigue or issues to speak of. Difference on 690-710 is a fair bit, not just the extra 40mm ttl disc but also the chord width to is a jump. I am suspecting myself the 700 is going to actually be able to use larger, longer then 710s, speculation of course but I have that on my hunch. The 700 from what I know is going to be a whole new machine, something completely new from what we know, with allot of what we are familiar with but allot of what will be new and in Ralphs vision, I am very excited I do feel this is going to be a big hit.
__________________
...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars & frequency pins...Shawn
Mikado Heli
Scorpion Motors
Western Robotics RC,
Youth Generation Electronics

OICU812 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2010, 11:40 PM   #7
dahld
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bakersfield, California, USA
Default

Because the Logo 600 (which the Logo 600SE is based of), was never designed in its original form to handle this kind of power:

Although the Logo 600 can definitely handle 10S and 600mm blades to the max., and its been proven to handle 690's and 10S, going 12S and 690-710's at insane head speeds is another story. Mikado I think rightly recognizes that the current Logo 600 design on 10S pushing 690 blades is safe, but going past that needs another design maybe?

So, enter the Logo 700. The next step (-:

Dave
dahld is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2010, 12:27 AM   #8
worldofmaya
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,862
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Graz, Austria
Default Re: 600SE vs 700 .. is it that different?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dahld
Logo 700 (coming). 690-710mm blades Dave
I think you're wrong about the size. Mikado never made small models for it's class...
-Klaus
__________________
SuziLAOS-DNHP-CenturioMax-Protos500-DJI-F550
worldofmaya is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2010, 12:56 AM   #9
worldofmaya
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,862
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Graz, Austria
Default Re: 600SE vs 700 .. is it that different?

I made my way from Logo 500 with 550s to a L500 XL (SE now), rebuild to 600 3D with 600s and 620s and than rebuild to L600XL swinging 690s.
First off the difference between 550 - 600 is really small compared to 600 -690s... it flies like a different machine. I came from 620s with 2200rpm and use pretty light 690s at 1600rpm... I get more flight, you can fly much faster and cyclic rates are great.
What's the weak point?
It's light (mine has 3.6-3.7kg), some would say too light...
The belt is the biggest problem. It starts to get too long, setting tension isn't that easy...
I would not recommend the rebuild to a hard-3D pilot. They tend to have the need for way too high head-speeds and at the end it's a 600-class machine.
A friend builds his 700-class electric helicopter right now. This model was engineered with 700mm+ and high-power motor at 12s in mind. Taking only the head or it's gears, you would see the difference without a second thought.
The 600SE is great new option, but it's not a 700-class machine.
-Klaus
__________________
SuziLAOS-DNHP-CenturioMax-Protos500-DJI-F550
worldofmaya is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2010, 02:45 AM   #10
OICU812
Registered Users
 
Posts: 9,796
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Edson, Alberta, Canada
Default

yup agree with you all, we all see where motors, lipos and escs are going....and certainly assure you all so does Mikado. The 700,,, I will put the cards down now and say it will be built to handle and to accomadate what the future holds in power deliverability and am not shy to assume this at all! Yes I assume but only based on how things have been done in the past, the 600 Logo was a HUGE step from the Logo 14 in every single way, I am prepared to say wow again.
__________________
...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars & frequency pins...Shawn
Mikado Heli
Scorpion Motors
Western Robotics RC,
Youth Generation Electronics

OICU812 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2010, 11:41 AM   #11
Big Fil
Registered Users
 
Posts: 5,655
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc863 View Post

therefore, if you are going to stretch a 600, why not stretch it straight to a 710mm bird, the way a 500SE stretches straight to 600, not a "590".
I think you can draw some of the same parallels with both the 500SE and 600SE models. Think of it like this:

500SE = 600mm blades, although not quite meant to swing 620s
600SE = 690mm blades, although not quite meant to swing 710s
__________________
Mikado Model Helicopters
Edge Blades

Big Fil is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > Mikado Logo Helicopters


Mikado Logo Helicopters Mikado Logo Helicopters Discussion

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2015 by RCGroups.com, LLC except where otherwise indicated. The HeliFreak.com logo is a trademark of RCGroups.com, LLC.