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500 Class Electric Helicopters 500 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 07-13-2010, 05:01 PM   #1
doeLauw
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Default 3026-1400, -1600, ice 75

I know there are a lot of topics on these motors and setups. But cannot find the answer to my question anywhere ....

To my understanding the -1400 has more torque then the -1600. Conclusion ... -1600 stock replacement and -1400 is a upgrade. Read -1400 @ 15t is awesome and should be a nice 2600 headspeed.

Why am I unable to set the governor at 2600?? According to CC it's to high for governing! But jet everybody seem to run -1400/15T@2600 ... how?

Cc settings:
Gearing 15/162
Kv 1400
Poles 10

Love running governor and now my 500M is failing after bearing replacement I need a new decent motor. Would not mind some extra punch. -1400@15t with 3300mah packs sounded like a good combo .... castles governor puts me in doubt.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:14 PM   #2
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Snjbird, is the man to ask about this. He has the 1400 and 1600 and runs governor. Hopefully he'll chime in or you can PM him if you want.

I'm running the 1400 with 14T and getting almost 2700 at top end but I don't use governor. Awesome motor by the way but I lost 30 secs. Off my flight time.

Good luck
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:21 PM   #3
Matt Nasca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doeLauw View Post
I know there are a lot of topics on these motors and setups. But cannot find the answer to my question anywhere ....

To my understanding the -1400 has more torque then the -1600. Conclusion ... -1600 stock replacement and -1400 is a upgrade. Read -1400 @ 15t is awesome and should be a nice 2600 headspeed.

Why am I unable to set the governor at 2600?? According to CC it's to high for governing! But jet everybody seem to run -1400/15T@2600 ... how?

Cc settings:
Gearing 15/162
Kv 1400
Poles 10

Love running governor and now my 500M is failing after bearing replacement I need a new decent motor. Would not mind some extra punch. -1400@15t with 3300mah packs sounded like a good combo .... castles governor puts me in doubt.
You can still set it, despite it turning red. Mine shows that I'll be at 101%, it runs great!
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:21 PM   #4
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Can't you just ignore what Castle says? As far as I remember that was just a suggestion but you can still set it where you want.
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:19 PM   #5
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I'll tell you what I know, and post up a few graphs

The 1400 motor on paper has more power potential. the disclaimer here is "can you use it?" I have run mine with 14-17 tooth and the motor pulls, running the higher gearing got the system hot, but did yield better graphs and appreciable power increases, but the batteries took a hit!

This Graph I had a 16 tooth pinion, but an older pack. I'm not sure how well you understand what to look for on the graph so I'll tell you what I see.

The ripple voltage was kinda high, meaning the pack is not holding a very straight line voltage as load is added and removed from the system. But the pack held an average of 22.5, so not too terrible. RPM is set for 2600, the software uses a little artistic liberty with this number... as you may have noticed, when you plug back in, the numbers may be jumbled a bit?
If you look at the power out, you can see, even early on, the throttle was topping out... this is a sign that I might be asking too much out of the gearing. You can see the average throttle out was in the 90s pretty high. When I first started using CC stuff I watched a Finless video on the HV85, I picked up some good info there, I just had to bare with a bit! But Bob was saying that 70-80 is good average throttle output, any higher does not leave your ESC any headroom to govern? seen here in my graph, now this flight was a hard one, and the governor did a pretty good job still.

So what am I trying to say... the 1400 really needs a 16T pinion to govern 2600 and really hold it; if you are really beating up the heli with medium life packs?

If you are not going to be pulling 1500+ watts then a 15T will do fine, if you are up there banging out 1700+ watts you are going to need a 17T and some Thunder Power Pro Power 3250 45C batteries!

From what I have seen... yes you can just ignore the software and set what you like, it is just a friendly reminder that you are pushing gearing, and the ESC will be topping out. It has nothing to do with damaging the ESC, the beauty of the ICE line is the graph... try what you like, and then look and see how it works!

From my experience, don't just try things once, get close to what you want, and then fly it a few times, the controller seems to have a short "learning curve" and it adjust things to suite your flying style and setup.
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:53 PM   #6
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SNJBIRD your message P.M box is full.
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:59 PM   #7
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hold on...
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:17 PM   #8
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Old 07-14-2010, 12:23 AM   #9
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Awsome info guys thanks!! SNJBIRD ...

What is the definition of a old pack? Running turnigy 3300mAh 30c packs. Got 3 brand new packs comming my way this week and 3 packs with 30 cyles on them. They seemed still awsome.

500M@13T gave me 6:30 (sports and basic 3D (tics/flips/rainbows)).
500M@14T with 2600 set rpm gave me 6:00 (sports and basic 3D (tics/flips/rainbows)).

You guys aren't making it easier choosing between 1400 or 1600. Think I take the leap with the -1400 and include rhino pinions 15&16. Hoping to still get 5/5:30 airtime. Let's hope the power diffrence is worth the lesser flighttime ... just no idea what to expect from it.
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:03 AM   #10
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HK3026-1400V2: What are the best settings for timing and pwm frequency?
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:12 AM   #11
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I found this post from Vinger ... he is a ice75 3026-1400 guru aswell ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinger View Post
Am not at home at the moment, will get the settings for you. You just have to do the setup for the motor/gearing in the CCLink software and then enter the desired rpm values into the three "boxes". Throttle curves will now determine which one is used, 0-49% TC will govern at SET RPM one, 50-99% will govern at SETRPM two and 100% will govern at SETRPM three.

Example TC:
Normal: 0,25,25,25,25 (Zero used to arm ESC)
Idle One: 75, 75, 75, 75, 75
Idle two: 100, 100, 100, 100, 100

These TC only demand the ESC to govern at that set rpm you selected and has no relation to actual throttle percentages used by the ESC, as it is running in governor mode and will use whatever power percentage to maintain rpm.

EDIT: Found the setup file saved earlier today:

Quote:
################################################## #####
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: 16 November 2009
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Hex55: 85
Brake Strength: 0
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Brake Ramp: Immediate (*)
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
Motor Start Power: 39
Direction: Reverse
Sample Frequency: 1 Sample / Sec
Motor Timing: 5
Data Log Enabled: 255
Current Limiting: Insensitive (130A)
BEC Voltage: 5.5
Power-On Beep: Enabled (*)
PWM Rate: 8 Khz
Vehicle Type: Helicopter
Throttle Type: Governor Mode
Throttle Response: 5
Governor Gain: 4
Initial Spool-Up Rate: 4
Head Speed Change Rate: 5
Auto Rotate Enabled: False
Governor Mode Type: Fixed
Vehicle Setup - Battery Type: LiPo
Vehicle Setup - Number of Cells: 6
Vehicle Setup - Battery Voltage: 22.2000
Vehicle Setup - Gear Ratio: 10.800
Vehicle Setup - Motor Kv: 1400
Vehicle Setup - Motor Number of Poles: 10
Desired Head Speed 1: 2600
Desired Head Speed 2: 2600
Desired Head Speed 3: 2600
Auto-Lipo Volts/Cell: 3.0 Volts/Cell (*)
Cutoff Voltage: 180


Note that I selected PWM rate of 8 Khz instead of the OUTRUNNER mode as this gives better power and cooler running of motor and ESC since using firmware 3.0Beta
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:24 AM   #12
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My local hobby store who barely has anything usefull for heli's happend to have hacker a40-12s. Got good deal :-).
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=RAGE=- View Post
HK3026-1400V2: What are the best settings for timing and pwm frequency?
8 Khz
Timing norm(5)
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:25 PM   #14
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Thanks.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:08 AM   #15
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The a40-12s performs as powerful as the 3026-1400. But think the hacker is more durable. Got it for the same price as a scorpion. I'm happy!
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500 Class Electric Helicopters 500 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.

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