Is this Normal??

[g-bru]

Guys

Was setting up the low battery voltage on my A9 for my X5 using my 6S 4200MAh Lipo which had around 3.9V/cell left in it.

I have set my ESC's built in BEC to 6V for the hungry DS610 servos. I decided to perform some hard collective on the throttle to confirm whether my alarm would sound on my A9 once reaching my set low voltage level warning.

You can hear the alarm on the TX going off when I was doing this, what happened next shocked me! Keep your eye on the Aileron servo at 12 seconds. (left servo).

YouTube

YouTube

Just charging my pack now to confirm it will not do this with a fully charged Lipo.

G.

[torana74]

G, set your bec voltage to 5.2 or the lowest mate. With the higher voltage(ie 6) , alot of becs won't put out their peak rated current. Try to same thing with charged pack on 6v(i'm thinking you'll get the same result) then try again on 5.2 etc. I'm not familiar with the A9(has some cool features). What's your alarm voltage?? The batt voltage it's measuring is voltage to the receiver i take it??

No doesn't look normal to me at all!
What are your failsafe settings???? Binding settings??? Could it be dropping voltage and going into failsafe???????
Like you said, the 610's are very hungry servos

Vas

[g-bru]

Originally Posted by torana74

G, set your bec voltage to 5.2 or the lowest mate. With the higher voltage(ie 6) , alot of becs won't put out their peak rated current. Try to same thing with charged pack on 6v(i'm thinking you'll get the same result) then try again on 5.2 etc. I'm not familiar with the A9(has some cool features). What's your alarm voltage?? The batt voltage it's measuring is voltage to the receiver i take it??

No doesn't look normal to me at all!
What are your failsafe settings???? Binding settings??? Could it be dropping voltage and going into failsafe???????
Like you said, the 610's are very hungry servos

Vas

Hey Vas

Thanks for the suggestions dude.

I fully charged my Lipo and tested again using 5.25V, however, it seemed worse?????

I then powered up my 255 running a Optima 6 RX (the X5 is using the Optima 9) with no glitching on the 255 whatsoever. So at least I know its definitely not the A9 TX.
I could try swopping RX's to see if the problem remains on the X5 using the Optima 6 receiver. (Easier said than done the RX's are buried away on both of my birds).

Failsafe is set to sticks centred with throttle hold active. (I have bench tested this)

Not sure where to go next if the problem persists.

I cannot imagine it is the DS610 servos they are brand new and I have noticed that Flypilot is using them too.......................

Thanks bud!

Grant

[jbeauvil001]

that is most likely happening because the 610s are power hungry, like you said. i would get a separate BEC and install that and see if it still happens. something like this
http://www.helidirect.com/castle-cre...ro-p-15914.hdx

[mjbrands]

Originally Posted by g-bru

I cannot imagine it is the DS610 servos they are brand new and I have noticed that Flypilot is using them too.......................

To me it definately looks like a receiver resetting. Do those Hitech receivers have some way of showing resets like the Spectrum/JR ones do? It suspect the voltage is dipping too low.

Anyway, do you have a multimeter (or can you borrow one)? You could connect it to a free port on your receiver and check the voltage while you're whiggling the sticks. If it is not the voltage, you've got a different culprit to chase down.

The suggestion to lower the voltage is a good one though; it is easier for the BEC to provide a solid 5.25 than a 6 volt power supply.

Edit: when connecting the multimeter, it is best to make some kind of cable (old servo lead?) and make sure there is no way a short can occur. If you do short the receiver, things may become quite a bit more exciting. Lipo's don't like to be shorted, with their low internal resistance.

[Mikej]

I have heard that those 610s use A LOT of power, serious amps and not just the amount that demands a BEC but a hefty BEC at that.

[Stoats]

Watch the TX voltage reading as you move the servos. If it's temporarily dropping into the lower 4's while the RX is still running then you might be having brownout problems.

You could always use the Optima's SPC port running off the main battery pack to keep the receiver from having any voltage problems and just let the servos deal with the BEC output voltages. I'll second the idea of using a lower BEC voltage which causes the servos to draw less power.

[Geffect]

I have a A9.

The way I have setup the voltage checking is to run a tap from the ESC battery input lead into the SPC port (SPC port is rated up to 8s.. The other ports are only rated at 8v).

This way I see the actual pack voltage e.g. Im running 6s so fully charged = 25v..

If you have updated the tx software to 1.07 you can set custom volt alarms. I have mine set at 22.6...

Note: When using the SPC port to tap the voltage it does not supply power to the servos. So if your testing you need to use an external batt. pack or have main pack plugged it as the servos get the power from the main 8v bus.

This will give you power for the rx directly from the battery, bypassing the BEC which might be causing the servo problem. The servos will continue to get power via BEC / throttle connection. By removing the power requirements of the rx from the BEC it might give you the extra power for the servos..

[g-bru]

Thanks for all the suggestions fella's. Gotta love Helifreak, great bunch of guys here always ready to help!

Stoats, max voltage on the TX was showing 5.2V and minimum was 4.5V when the glitch occurred.
About the SPC port, according to Hitec SPC powers the receiver only not the servos, servos will need to be run off a separate 2 cell Lipo.
Glitch occurs when wiggling the throttle stick really rapidly. If I apply normal collective (as if I where actually flying and performing 3D, not that I can) the servos show no sign of glitching.

I have sent a mail to Hitec Support, hopefully they will have a explanation for me. Will keep y'all posted.

Brands, never had a chance to check the voltage with my voltmeter, will do so tonight using an old servo cable as suggested. Does it matter which wire I hook the voltmeter up too? I assume red to the positive and black to negative.

Thanks again!

Grant

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[torana74]

Originally Posted by g-bru

About the SPC port, according to Hitec SPC powers the receiver only not the servos, servos will need to be run off a separate 2 cell Lipo.

The seperate power for your servos would be your bec mate. The SPC port from what i understand would be just to make sure your receiver has it's own power. Someone else could confirm that please.

. Does it matter which wire I hook the voltmeter up too? I assume red to the positive and black to negative.

You assume correct Grant. Even if you had the leads back to front when checking volts,,, you'd just get a " - " symbol infront. Not to scare you,but just remember that when flying, there is a far bit more load on the servos than on the bench.

Hope you get an answer soon mate

Vas

[Geffect]

Originally Posted by torana74

The seperate power for your servos would be your bec mate. The SPC port from what i understand would be just to make sure your receiver has it's own power. Someone else could confirm that please.

Yes, you are right in that the SPC just powers the rx not the servos.. But with electrics because the SPC bus is 8S you can get the "exact" voltage reading of the pack rather than the voltage the BEC is putting out which is what you see if you dont tap from the ESC to SPC.

The BEC is suppling the power to the servos via your throttle cable. You dont need a rx battery pack but you can use one if you want.

I dont know enough about electronics but using the BEC voltage as your alarm doesnt seem very safe. Im not sure about how the BEC translates/converts the main packs voltage down to the 6v.. I.e. are the voltage drop proportional? 1v drop on main pack = 1v drop on BEC? If the drops are proportional then it would be fine, otherwise you risk killing your batteries.

[Stoats]

Originally Posted by Geffect

I dont know enough about electronics but using the BEC voltage as your alarm doesnt seem very safe. Im not sure about how the BEC translates/converts the main packs voltage down to the 6v.. I.e. are the voltage drop proportional? 1v drop on main pack = 1v drop on BEC? If the drops are proportional then it would be fine, otherwise you risk killing your batteries.

No, the idea behind a switching BEC is that it provides a constant output voltage through the entire flight. If you're stressing the BEC then the voltage will drop as the current supplied goes up since it has a harder time keeping the inductor/capacitor up at the right voltage.

The voltage reading on the A9 doesn't catch spikes reliably (especially if it causes a brownout) so a voltage drop down to 4.5V on the BEC is probably a conservative reading and a sign of a BEC that is having trouble keeping up with the load.

If you're not comfortable plugging the main power into the SPC port, at least look at getting a better BEC like the Castle Pro (the black one with a heatsink) or one of the Western Robotics BEC's. It's not too much money for a little more peace of mind.

Wiring the SPC Port:

Top of Optima Case (button/lights etc)
---- Servo Bus Power + (leave this pin empty)
---- SPC Port + (from balance tap red wire)
---- Power - (from balance tap bottom black wire)
Bottom of Optima Case

[g-bru]

Originally Posted by Geffect

I have a A9.

The way I have setup the voltage checking is to run a tap from the ESC battery input lead into the SPC port (SPC port is rated up to 8s.. The other ports are only rated at 8v).

This way I see the actual pack voltage e.g. Im running 6s so fully charged = 25v..

If you have updated the tx software to 1.07 you can set custom volt alarms. I have mine set at 22.6...

Note: When using the SPC port to tap the voltage it does not supply power to the servos. So if your testing you need to use an external batt. pack or have main pack plugged it as the servos get the power from the main 8v bus.

This will give you power for the rx directly from the battery, bypassing the BEC which might be causing the servo problem. The servos will continue to get power via BEC / throttle connection. By removing the power requirements of the rx from the BEC it might give you the extra power for the servos..

Thanks Geffect, sounds good to me bud!

Can you kindly advise what you used as a tap? Old servo cable? Can you show pictures of your connection to the ESC if its not to much trouble. I assume all I will need to do is use 2 wires from the servo cable? Solder one servo wire to the positive and the other to the negative?

Again thanks to everyone here for their valued input!

I can't help but feel a little deflated, got the bird all built and ready to fly then this S***T had to put a hold on my maiden flight, not to mention potentially cost me more of my hard earned cash. (Serves me right for buying DS610's should have got myself BLS or MKS servo's).

Or is this the answer to my woe's! http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/prod...ducts_id=10989

G.

[Geffect]

I just used an old servo connector/wire and soldered to the wires which go into the EC5 connector on the ESC.

I dont have a X5. Im thinking about getting one.. I have this setup on my Trex500 and works fine. If I had the space on the Trex I would run a seperate BEC /rx battery.

If you have helis with multiple packs i.e. 700e with 2x5000mah you can take the voltage off one pack as the voltage is too high across the 2 packs.

[torana74]

G, as Geffect says. It is very poss to run a seperate receiver pack.
I'm really liking the LiFe batts as receiver packs(nice an easy 6.6v) and as you know have a Hyperion Life 2S 850mah receiver pack on mine. I have two that i swap and together will get and easy 8 flights with my setup.

But in saying that..... flypilot./eDek and others are using 610's with the ESC bec and no dramas.

My other suggestion at the mo is if you have a receiver pack to try and see if the same thing happens. Also as you are throwing the sticks around everywhere, make sure with full pos and neg collective that no binding etc happens with full elevator, aileron, etc etc etc Hit all the corners

Vas

[g-bru]

Originally Posted by torana74

G, as Geffect says. It is very poss to run a seperate receiver pack.
I'm really liking the LiFe batts as receiver packs(nice an easy 6.6v) and as you know have a Hyperion Life 2S 850mah receiver pack on mine. I have two that i swap and together will get and easy 8 flights with my setup.

But in saying that..... flypilot./eDek and others are using 610's with the ESC bec and no dramas.

My other suggestion at the mo is if you have a receiver pack to try and see if the same thing happens. Also as you are throwing the sticks around everywhere, make sure with full pos and neg collective that no binding etc happens with full elevator, aileron, etc etc etc Hit all the corners

Vas

Vas,

Yeah, got a reply from Hitec support telling me to run a separate pack on the RX's SPC port. I bought a 4 Cell NIMH pack and hooked this up to the SPC port and all is good! Happy, but still confused as to why some other folks run their Align Servos without a separate battery for the RX, is my SBEC working properly I wonder?

Just trying to decide whether I should run a separate 2S Lipo, or, tap into the ESC connector.

Running a 2S Lipo means more weight and more wires.

Running a tap would mean I can use the telemetry of the RX to indicate remaining voltage in my 6S pack running the X5, however I do have some questions regarding this?
1. If I tap a servo wire to the ESC input (I use Deans) is the servo wire gauge/thickness gonna be good enough for the amount of Volts & Ampage that the 6S Lipo delivers?
2. I would have to remove the heatshrink and current Deans from the ESC and try to solder a new Deans onto the ESC plus the servo wire to the Deans joint, doing this is gonna be real difficult and I am little concerned as to how well the joint will cope.

G.

[Stoats]

Originally Posted by g-bru

Running a tap would mean I can use the telemetry of the RX to indicate remaining voltage in my 6S pack running the X5, however I do have some questions regarding this?
1. If I tap a servo wire to the ESC input (I use Deans) is the servo wire gauge/thickness gonna be good enough for the amount of Volts & Ampage that the 6S Lipo delivers?
2. I would have to remove the heatshrink and current Deans from the ESC and try to solder a new Deans onto the ESC plus the servo wire to the Deans joint, doing this is gonna be real difficult and I am little concerned as to how well the joint will cope.

G.

For just running the receiver (which uses 80-100ma if I remember correctly) through the SPC port, the servo wire gauge is more than adequate.

You probably should decide whether you want to add in another BEC as this is the time to do it.

Here's what I would do if I had to do the soldering by myself:

If you have enough extra wire length, desolder the current deans then cut off 1cm or so of wire just to get back to pure braided wire that isn't hardened by the solder. Strip the ESC leads .75cm and the receiver leads 1.5-2cm so you can tightly wrap them together well. Tin the wrapped wires as normal, don't forget to put the heatshrink on, and finally solder to the deans connector. As long as the solder is hot and flowing on both the deans and wire while together, there shouldn't be any joint problems. It's when you don't get nice smooth solder fillets or possible "cold" solder joints that you have to worry.

If you have someone help you, just tin the solder wire, desolder the deans, slip on the heatshrink, and finally have your helper just hold the wires in place as you reheat the dean/wires connection while adding a little extra solder to bind everything together.

On a related note, this kind of operation has pushed me to using hyperion/mpjet bullet connectors for my large stuff.

[Mikej]

There is an easy way to create an extra power feed from the main packs if you are using Deans - simply put a male and female deans back to back (tin them first) - you can get them lied up so that there is a good deal of distance between them. Now melt more solder onto them until you have a good join, then tin some 2-wires-in-one cable and add one piece of the cable to each connection - hey presto instant power supply.



If you need a hand let me know and I can knock one up for you

[g-bru]

@ Stoats, thanks for the detailed and clear explanation of re-soldering my Deans connections bud. I do think I will give Mike's suggestion a try though, as the positive lead on the ESC is a little short due to the spark arrestor that is fitted to it.

Mike, I have PM'd you dude!

Thanks fella's

Grant

[torana74]

Grant, he's alright our Mike. Just don't let him know we said that

Vas