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Zoom/Shogun 400 Electric - Zoom - Shogun 400 Specific Discussion


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Old 08-29-2004, 03:16 PM   #1
Hotshot Charlie
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Default Starting the Shogun Project .....

Welcome to my nightmare.... just kidding, this looks to be a fun project !



First, here is the pile of items you will need for the project:



Second, the gyro, might as well use a good one if you are going to 3D this little beast:



Third, turn the back strut around backwards. Also, I will make some carbon fibre tail support rods:



Problem with battery placement and balance, as you can see below:



Solved by cutting out a piece of lite ply, notice the grain is running long ways for more strengh:



Here are the dimensions:



Used a permanent marker to paint it black:



Used 30 minute epoxy to glue it in (not sure this was the thing to do, but I did it anyway):



Installing the HS-56 servos is pretty straight forward, other than you may have to do a little whittling around the openings to get them to fit. You will also have to drill new mounting holes, since the Shogun is set up for HS-55's that use one screw on each side of the servo. The HS-56's have the ability to use 4 screws (this would be overkill, just use one screw on each end and put them on the opposite sides like my photo shows.



The mounting of the rudder servo is a different matter. I used the HS-55 servo for this installtion. It (you would think) would just slip in and everything be just cozy.... well it was a little toooooo cozy. The top side of the servo rubbed the main gear, so I had to do some trimming of the mounting hole to have enough clearance to make it work. It took about an 1/8 inch of trimming to get the servo to mount without hitting the main drive gear. Also the holes (that are designed for the HS-55) did not match up with the servo, so I had to work to get it to mount. Also, for your benefit, the holes in the Shogun are too big for the mounting screws that come with the servos, so you will need to step up the size of the mounting screw. I found a larger screw in my parts box and ended up cutting off the end to make it work. It mounted fine and seems like it will be ok.




I know most of you are going to use a tail mount rudder servo, but I thought I would give this a try. I heard it didn't work very well, but I think with using some standoffs for the control rod, it can be made smooth as silk. We will see. You will notice how close the servo is to the main drive gear. About a sheet of paper is all you can slide in-between them. And that is after removing about 1/8" of frame.



Using the standard servo mounting place for the Tail Rotor Servo takes just a little bit of ingenuity. Use the forward anchor point, move the secondary support (cable tie) and make up a third anchor point on the vertical fin.



As you can see here, I used a old credit card and cut a stip and stuck the strip to the vertical fin using double sided foam tape. BTW, I stole this idea from somewhere else... can't remember where I saw it.



Be sure to use a short, self threading screw and anchor the tail boom on the front.....



And anchor it on the tail clamp end.



Don't forget to pull out this pin and glue it in place.... YES, Sar, mine practically fell out when I found where it was located. I would like to thank SAR for the info on where to find this pin. I bet I overlooked it 10 times.



Ok, it is hard to explain how I routed my antenna. I came off the receiver with some fuel tubing, running antenna inside that, then you can see where it goes. It basically goes to the horizontal tail fin and comes back to the front of the struts. I think I will probably go with a base loaded antenna when I find one.



Another view, and no the battery will not be secured like I have it. I just had it stuck on there while I set up the heli. I will secure it with a velcro wrap for flight.



Basically, it is now ready for it's maiden voyage. Wish me luck.



I decided to try a stubby antenna, the jury is still out on it, but it sure beats runing the antenna wire all around the world.


Here is a shot of my screw that I put in the place of the roll pin, that fell out even though I CA'ed the pin in place. I also thick CA'ed the screw in place.


I put the Ultem Gears in my little beast, here is what they look like installed. When you push on the tail gear, get a small socket that will fit inside the gear mesh to help push it on to the shaft. You may even have tapp the socket with a hammer to get it to slide on. I hope these work as well as they look. More on this later !


Again, another shot of the Ultem Gears Installed. Curlyq gets $23 a set for them shipped anywhere in the US, including a hex key.


Well after a lot of problems, I finally got her in the air.... even with gusty winds of 10mph. Stable hover, tail still not just right but close.


I had some receiver glitching, not the best idea to run a GWS receiver in this heli. That needs to be changed. JR Micro or Berg would be a much better idea.


I think this little heli could be a lot of fun, my frustration level with it is very high.


Still, I feel that I have accomplished a lot just to get it in the air.


On the Ultem gears, they are definitely a step up from the standard gears. I can recommend them, but I ate up the "purple" gear on the output (tailend) of the tail rotor shaft. Not sure I had a good mate with the Ultem gear or what. I will put a brass gear back on the shaft and try that. I will put a photo of what it did on here tomorrow.


That is about all I have on this project. Thanks for looking!
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Old 09-09-2004, 09:11 PM   #2
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Project almost complete.... still need to clean up the wiring and secure the battery... pitch curves set.... somewhat and throttle curves set... somewhat. Time to see if it will hover.

I guess Friday afternoon will be the test flight. Wish me luck !
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Old 09-09-2004, 10:51 PM   #3
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Rob! That's an excellent build up article on your Shogun/Zoom. Thanks for the efforts and descriptions. Good luck with it tomorrow afternoon
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:26 PM   #4
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Lookin good!
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Old 09-10-2004, 02:51 PM   #5
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Yikes...trusting your shogun to a gws receiver is scarey stuff
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Old 09-10-2004, 03:33 PM   #6
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I have been a little nervous about the receiver, but have flown this receiver in a foamy quite a few times. No probs.... I guess we will see...
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Old 09-10-2004, 03:35 PM   #7
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Thanks SAR and Rob, for the comments also.....

Heck folks, just as Xarnon mentioned.... should I not try this with the GWS receiver??? I sure don't want to tear it up due to that !
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Old 09-10-2004, 03:36 PM   #8
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Thanks SAR and Rob, for the comments also.....

Heck folks, just as Xarnon mentioned.... should I not try this with the GWS receiver??? I sure don't want to tear it up due to that !
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Old 09-10-2004, 03:46 PM   #9
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I used one in a Hummingbird and even a Lite Machines (glow version) with no issues. But then I have another one that glitches like crazy if it gets anywhere near carbon fiber. I really think that some are better than others. GWS may have some QC issues...
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Old 09-10-2004, 03:48 PM   #10
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Well, I am about 1.5 hours away from trying it..... wish me luck !

hehehehhee Whaaaahooooooo :mrgreen:
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Old 09-10-2004, 03:56 PM   #11
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/fingers crossed
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Old 09-10-2004, 05:55 PM   #12
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Remember to range test
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Old 09-10-2004, 07:56 PM   #13
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Sorry it took me so long to read this thread. Rob that is a KILLER build-up article!!!

THANK YOU!!! Excellent!!

Bravo!!
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Old 09-10-2004, 09:34 PM   #14
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Found a problem(s), but the little beast "breifly flew".

When you use the Hi-Max motor, the pinion gear contacts the bottom of the tail rotor gear.... well the stock motor contacts the top of the tail rotor gear..... guess what....

Your tail rotor turns backwards !!! WE (RCPlylon) and myself almost pulled our hair out this afternoon trying to figure this one out. Finally looked at the tail rotor blade and spun the main rotor blade.... guess what..... backwards.... Aaaahaaaaa!

So..... to correct, I will probably pull the tail rotor gear and reverse that gear and all will be well in the Shogun world. With the HiMax the motors main shaft isn't as long as the stock motors shaft, so it doesn't stick up as far and the pinion doesn't contact the top of the tail gear, it contacts the bottom. It looks to me the easiest solution is to do the above mentioned. I will accept any ideas???? :?:

Also I had some problems with lack of range and glitching, I changed my antenna to a "stub" type antenna and routed it away from the Li-Po and that corrected that problem.

This is a "Hit-n-Miss" type heli.... electrics are a whole new beast ! hehehee

This stuff is FUN !!!! :twisted:
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Old 09-10-2004, 09:45 PM   #15
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To fix the tail rotor direction is actually pretty easy. I had to do it, too. Take the tail gearbox apart and flip over the white output gear - the white plastic one with the long shank that rotates the hex brass tail shaft. This will reverse the direction of the tail rotor!
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Old 09-10-2004, 09:49 PM   #16
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Great Rob, you totally confirmed my approach to this problem !!!! SUPER DUDE !

Thanks !!! (But should I feel dumb by not finding this problem earlier??? hehehe)
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Old 09-10-2004, 09:51 PM   #17
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Also, I think this little heli is going to be fun !!!

Hey Rob, while I got your attention:

What are the pitch and throttle curves you are using? Anyone else, please "chime" in !
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Old 09-10-2004, 10:22 PM   #18
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Watch out for slop in the pitch linkage, I did as couple of altitude drops with mine and it took a little more collective than I expected to pull out of them. This is with the stock linkage so I need to find a solution to it. I had some vids of this and I will post the URL if I still have them on my server.

http://www.thaltech.com/zoomoops.wmv
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Old 09-11-2004, 02:38 AM   #19
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thanks for the great info and photos and info charlie, i will be following your lead. got a question...when i get airborn i cant get the heli (shogun) to stop drifting, i try to counter all the movements but end up having to land, i have checked that the swashplate sits correctly with the servos zeroed and all that stuff, the rotor tracking is a little off, they reccomend adjusting for this by popping the linkage and turning... appreciate your wise words of wisdom...

the new guy...(to the heli world)
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Old 09-11-2004, 09:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sar
Watch out for slop in the pitch linkage, I did as couple of altitude drops with mine and it took a little more collective than I expected to pull out of them. This is with the stock linkage so I need to find a solution to it. I had some vids of this and I will post the URL if I still have them on my server.

http://www.thaltech.com/zoomoops.wmv
I think that explains the infrequent but sudden drops I've noticed too. I'm going to have to think about how to correct that pitch linkage. Thanks.
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