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Old 09-13-2010, 07:58 PM   #1
cinemacell
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Default Crashed Three Times in Three Days with Copilot II

I installed Co-pilot II on my 450 clone a week ago.

I've had the CP2 work flawlessly for several flights - the last three flights however have been a total nightmare.

Crash Save Procedure:
When the Heli starts to crash due to loss of orientation, panic or whatever I usually let the alerion/pitch stick go and putt throttle to give the CP2 enough height and time to save the heli. Now I don't know if this is the proper procedure, but in the several successful saves I've had with CP2, this was the procedure I did.

I also usually fly the heli quite high, to give CP2 enough time to save the heli, since CP2 seems to save the heli quite slowly on my heli.

My settings:
For Crash 1 & 2
Gains: 50% and 38%
Auto Trim: 6%
Emergency: Y
Stick Priority: 75%

For Crash 3
Gains: 70% and 50% (Default)
Auto Trim 6%
Emergency: Y
Stick Priority: 70%


Day 1 Crash 1:
I flew the heli really high for a couple of minutes - flying out from left to right doing figure 8s.

I decided to do it closer to the ground about 4 feet high and in one of the turns the heli started to roll too far to the right, so my automatic response was to let the stick go and put throttle. Instead of starting to level the heli, the CP2 rolled it even further and the heli went crashing to the ground in destroying the blades, main gear, main shaft, tail boom, fly bar and racking up around $70 dollars worth of damage.

I however did not blame CP2 for this crash since it was pretty low and did not have enough time to recover.

Day 2 Crash 2:
Happened the day after. I went flying in a different field for the first time, which had an open grass area and a few trees in the edges of the open field.

My first flight was ok and CP2 seemed to be working ok.

On my second flight during my fly out doing figure eights above 25feet off the ground the heli started again to roll (due to me) so I once again let go of the stick and put full throttle to give CPII a chance to save it.

Once again instead of correcting the heli CP2 decided to roll the heli even further making the heli decend to tree level, clipping a branch and go crashing to the ground.

Damage report was a broken flybar, blades, bent boom, main gear, flybar paddle went missing racking a total of around $50 - a bit cheaper since the parts I bought from the first crash came in two's.

Here - I was really pissed at copilot - I mean it was around 25feet off the ground and copilot decided to roll the heli further instead of correcting it.

Did the sensor become confused as to which way was up or down? I had to figure this out - and see what was the cause of my crashes. DId I perhaps push co-pilot past it's limits?


Day 2 Crash 3:
I decided to see the limitations of copilot. I needed to know how far I can push copilot before it crashed. I'll be putting this on my stretch T600 after all so I need to know the extent of its capabilities.

After I had the clone 450 heli up and running again, I flew the heli above a grassy area. I put the gains back up to 70%/50% (default of CP2) and Emergency to Y.

I flew the heli up around 50 feet. Gave it full throttle and pulled back on the pitch making the heli loop. I let go at the top of the roll and CP2 managed to save it - albeit around a 12foot drop.

I placed the heli again at the same height and decided to roll the heli - the heli dropped the full height and crashed. But by the time it crashed it was already partly upright so minimal damaged occured mainly the main gear, a big gash on the blades and bent flybar.


My Conclusions:
CP2 saves on pitch faster than roll but this could be due to lower setting on the roll gain. I do wonder however what would happen if I make both roll and pitch gains the same level - let's say both to 70%.

Will test this out today.


A Few Pointers:
There are a few things that could be done to prevent crashes with CP2:

1) The best way of course is to learn how to fly properly - haha
2) Bring the gain up in the roll
3) Don't throttle when you roll past 90degrees (hard to do sometimes when you're disoriented). Throttling when you're past 90degrees will just make your heli go to the ground faster.
4)Enable inverted mode on your TX and when you go past 90degrees, push throttle for inverted flight and when the heli is leveling out push throttle for normal flight again (this is again very hard for new fliers)


All in all I'm glad I purchased CP2 and will install this on my T600 stretched. But will also try other stabilizers like the KDS and Helicommand.
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:28 PM   #2
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If your rolling your heli that far over, the CPII may well try to stabilize it in the inverted attitude,if your setup for it and if your not in idle up and unless your quick enough on your sticks the results will be what you've encountered.

Pushing the heli that far over the CPII may well try to complete the roll to reach level again.

If you watch any of the video's where the CPII does an emergency recovery you'll notice that the helicopter is at a far less angle than 90.

As to your recovery speed, try adjusting your gains up till you see it oscillate, then back off a few ticks, that should give you the best speed out of your bird for recovery
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:48 PM   #3
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Night & cinemacell,

Guess I'm still not clear on why it didn't save

I've had my 600n in heart stopping trouble, death spirals and flipped the OMG switch on inverted at the top of a loop just for fun

The result was it righted so fast the blades barked (of course I took credit for it)

I did see one save where it looked like it didn't take the shortest route to "up"

Do you have the vertical sensor on your CPII, just curious.

Mel
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:07 AM   #4
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There has been an instance, where under certain conditions when the helicopter has been pushed over to 90 or more and dependent on how it was setup on the Tx,( used a slider for level / inverted) where the CPII will level out inverted.

There was a posting of this happening a while back, If I remember correctly there was no malfunction in the CPII, it did what it thought it was suppose to do. The pilot did not realize this and inadvertently caused his own crash.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:27 AM   #5
cinemacell
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@Navigator
Yes, I have the vertical sensor installed. It's on the boom about a few centimeters from the main frame whilst the main sensor is installed just before the horizontal fin.
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:12 PM   #6
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mine levels from plus 90 incredibly fast. I have done it a ton of times just showing cp2 off at the local field. A lot of peeps get curious about it. Hey night that person that person where that happened it sounds like they had CP2 3d modes enabled and accidentaly put it in inverted flight to make that happen. If thats the case your right cp2 did exactly what they asked it to
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:51 PM   #7
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Well, there must have been a reason for it not behaving in this instance. It could either be a setup issue or a heat source/obstruction that may have caused this malfunction/aberration.

Since it happened three times I lean towards the setup side.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:15 PM   #8
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My guess would be with the heli being rolled over that far, the CPII decided it was faster to do a complete roll out back to level, although the wasn't enough altitude to complete the move. and once inverted, and not being in idle up it will rocket downward alot faster.

Much like trying to do a barrel roll in normal flight mode..it does more of a cork screw than actual roll
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflyr View Post
My guess would be with the heli being rolled over that far, the CPII decided it was faster to do a complete roll out back to level, although the wasn't enough altitude to complete the move. and once inverted, and not being in idle up it will rocket downward alot faster.

Much like trying to do a barrel roll in normal flight mode..it does more of a cork screw than actual roll
Why would it decide to take the longer way round, did CPII also loose its angular orientation. Surely it must know what angle it is off the horizon.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:09 PM   #10
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I agree with a setup issue cause mine has never headed for inverted unless I told it to.(first time was this evening) When you tell it to it does a good job of getting there. I havent worked out the flight angles on mine but when I flip it I can hit the switch when its just a little over 90 it goes to what it thinks is level pretty fast and stays there. I just tried it for the first time this evening to see how it would do and as with everything else it does it does it just like its supposed to. I was playing with mine turning it on and off a lot tonight and mine levels from a roll slower too but its still pretty dang fast and has never tried to go the wrong way.
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Old 09-15-2010, 05:31 PM   #11
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@Pril
The CP2 was working really good for quite a few flights (several take-offs and landings in several days), before it started to show this weird behavior. So I don't think it's a setup issue.

It could be an overheating issue, or perhaps a brown out issue, since my Align ESC gets pretty hot - too hot to touch with bare fingers for more than half a sec.

Anyways here's an update:

The CP2 seemed to be working perfectly again it levels the heli really quickly. It saved my chopper from real damage yesterday.

Here's the story:


The main reason I installed my CP2 was for FPV purposes.

I managed to finish it off yesterday morning and had it's maiden flight in the late afternoon in really poor weather conditions.

Flying weight is about 1.1KG on an 'AlOne' (Align/CLone hybrid) 450.

I flew it up in the air twice and in the second flight, about 50 feet up in the air, the tail ball link from the servo gave which started to piro my heli really fast.

CP2 managed to keep the heli level however, even though it was spinning wildly and I managed to bring it down to about 4 feet before I cut the throttle and send it crashing to the ground before it hit one of the cars in the field.

I would imagine that without CP2 the heli would have spun wildly then go past 90degrees and start plummeting to the ground.

Damage Report:
-Nicked the main blades with a bad gash on the tips
-The Video TX got disconnected and went flying off but in perfect health
-Ball link for the main blades came off but in perfect health


So thank you for CP2 for keeping the heli as level as can be and minimizing the damage to almost nil.


Lessons learnt:
1) Put a damn nut in the ball link for the tail servo
2) Lessen the flying weight (take out the second smaller 3s batt for video TX and Cam)
3) Don't get too over excited to fly the heli in FPV mode - take your time and fly the heli for a few flights and get the feel for it first (especially true everytime you have a new setup)
4) Find a better spot to put the videoTx (currently installed in the tail boom on the vert fin)
5) Have spare blades on hand
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:30 PM   #12
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Ok, so I flew the bird again just now - first time since after the crash yesterday.

Here is what I noticed with CP2, all tests were done outside in the bright sun, whilst the heli was sitting on the gravely ground:

With the CP2 turned on, if I wave my finger in front of the IR sensors of the main sensor the swash moves - that's about right I think.

If I wave my finger in front of the IR Vert sensor that is looking to the sky - the swash moves - that's right too.

When I wave my finger in front of the IR Vert sensor that faces the ground - swash doesn't react - is this right? or is there something wrong with my vert sensor?
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:36 PM   #13
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1 out of 3...

Putting your hand above the vertical sensor didn't make the swash react, the main sensor picked up the heat signature of your hand,

And when you tried the lower part of the vertical sensor the main sensor didn't "see" your hand

The vertical sensor "sees" the temperature difference between the ground and sky
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