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450 Class Electric Helicopters 450 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 01-04-2007, 08:00 PM   #1
supertrex2
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Default 4050 KV new motor

hey guys, anyone have tried this motor yet?

with the Stock 35Align ESC?
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Old 01-04-2007, 08:38 PM   #2
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Who is it made by?
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:40 PM   #3
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fwiw..

My favorite 450 motor...Much more power than 3550, runs best on 11 T...I've been waiting for word on this to get out..It's the best kept secret in TRexland...

John.
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Old 01-04-2007, 10:46 PM   #4
supertrex2
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4050 KV motor is made by Align.

Have you tried running this motor with 13T pinnion?
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Old 01-05-2007, 12:19 AM   #5
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bmlasater Danny J been running the 450F with 12 tooth, crazy HS and power yes. The 500th is going to be the new JGF king on either 13 or 14 tooth, if you look at the specs it can pull almost 200 watts more and many more amps, with newest tech lipos no issue there, should be killer. I am going to be trying one of these very soon and get some data off of it.
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Old 01-05-2007, 12:46 AM   #6
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John, I tried this motor and honestly on 11T I did not like it as much as the 430L on 13T. If it was all that, why would that not be in the SE kits now?

What makes you say this motor is better please?

Bob
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:18 AM   #7
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I've been running the 4050 430L with the 35G ESC for a while. Using 11t pinion. Seems good to me
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:52 AM   #8
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Well again I tried it... Head speed was lower than I liked and because of the 11T pinion it bogged more that I liked.....

I guess we all have our own likes

Bob
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Old 01-05-2007, 07:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless
Well again I tried it... Head speed was lower than I liked and because of the 11T pinion it bogged more that I liked.....

I guess we all have our own likes

Bob
I don't understand how a 11T would bog more than a 13T? It's like pulling away in a car in 1st and then pulling away in 2nd. Surely a 13T will likely bog more?
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Old 01-05-2007, 08:14 AM   #10
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Correct me if I am wrong but I think that an 4000kv motor has more rpm but less torque compared to for example an 3000kv motor.

So you cannot say that an 4000kv motor will bog less than an 3000kv motor.
I think that the most important thing is to get the headspeed you want with the amount of throttle you want (say maybe around 85-90%) this will be a combination of battery voltage, motor kv, pinion.
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless
John, I tried this motor and honestly on 11T I did not like it as much as the 430L on 13T. If it was all that, why would that not be in the SE kits now?

What makes you say this motor is better please?

Bob
You said it yourself, when has Align ever listened to you Finless? Big mistake on their part...
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunkan
Correct me if I am wrong but I think that an 4000kv motor has more rpm but less torque compared to for example an 3000kv motor.

So you cannot say that an 4000kv motor will bog less than an 3000kv motor.
I think that the most important thing is to get the headspeed you want with the amount of throttle you want (say maybe around 85-90%) this will be a combination of battery voltage, motor kv, pinion.
hehe yup. 4050kv on 4S at 100%. That would be insane HS!
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Old 01-05-2007, 10:36 AM   #13
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I just mean that you can not compare 11T vs. 13T on the same motor in the same way as 13T on a lower kv motor compared to 11T on a higher kv motor.
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Old 01-05-2007, 10:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunkan
I just mean that you can not compare 11T vs. 13T on the same motor in the same way as 13T on a lower kv motor compared to 11T on a higher kv motor.
I wasn't I was merely saying that I don't understand how 11T can bog more than an 13T (any motor). My first post was irrelevant to motor type
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Old 01-05-2007, 03:30 PM   #15
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It is about the sweet spot for rpm of the motor in discussion. Having a higher tooth count pinion may get it at it's optimum range. For some motors best touque can be at 60-75% range , while some others may like to be wide open or near in the 90-100% range, that is the answer Plane...
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Old 01-05-2007, 03:35 PM   #16
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I think it's an issue too of whether we're talking about bogging on a long climbout or on rapid maneuvers. On a long climbout I'd typically expect more bogging with the higher gear ratio. On rapid maneuvers like tic-tocs the momentum in the head might carry you through the brief moment of very high load, while the relatively low load time between tics and tocs will allow the head to come back to speed.
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Old 01-05-2007, 04:07 PM   #17
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It's bogging on quick short maneuvers that would concern me more, the pop moves is where you want it to hold, in that case I myself have found that gearing up and is better imho, Headspeed can make up for alot from what I find...
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Old 01-05-2007, 04:38 PM   #18
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I think that's consistent with my "theory".
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:59 PM   #19
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Has anyone ever made up some sort of data sheet/spread-sheet, that includes some power/torque curve for the common motors, and output RPMs of the main common blades, all across a full throttle stick range?
And pinion sizes.
That would be something handy.

Even if it was just produced as a sort of half-theoretical one...getting some base data off bench mounting a heli and thus being able to grab just some load points. And then filling in the rest of the curves based on knowing which are theoretically linear and which are exponentials or whatever.

If you strapped a heli to a set of scales to measure loads produced you should be able measure a true hover pitch for a start, and thus tach the RPM there. You could next also simulate some manouever loadings by taking guesstimated G loadings of a manouever (eg I hit 3g for this direction change in a tic-toc) and then running test cycles of throttling up fast, to achieve that weight on the scale (a 700g Rex pulls 2100g at 3g).
Of course you would do small fast throttle ups, increasing the strength per cycle until the required G/weight was reached on that fast peak.
That should mimic true flight load characteristics.

Something for someone with LOTS of bits around - motors, blades, pinions - and time.....and a leather apron....safety goggles....
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Old 01-05-2007, 07:02 PM   #20
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fwiw..

I still feel I get noticeably better performance on the 4050/11 t/Hyperion 325combo...Visibly faster climb, less bogging/hs loss in continuous climbing rolls and flips. H/s more constant means tail holds better, and the Eagle Tree says appx. 15% more power going into the system than the 3550/13 t. Also will pull an honest 12/12 pitch without overheating/bogging..I prefer the 3550 on 12 t, but the h/s is then just a bit too low..Perhaps others will not find this combo as good, but it sure works for my flying style. I'll be trying this motor with the Align CF blades tomorrow...We'll see if it works as well....

John.
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