4050 KV new motor

supertrex2 · 01-04-2007, 08:00 PM

hey guys, anyone have tried this motor yet?

with the Stock 35Align ESC?

Raydee · 01-04-2007, 08:38 PM

Who is it made by?

bmlasater · 01-04-2007, 09:40 PM

fwiw..

My favorite 450 motor...Much more power than 3550, runs best on 11 T...I've been waiting for word on this to get out..It's the best kept secret in TRexland...

John.

supertrex2 · 01-04-2007, 10:46 PM

4050 KV motor is made by Align.

Have you tried running this motor with 13T pinnion?

OICU812 · 01-05-2007, 12:19 AM

bmlasater Danny J been running the 450F with 12 tooth, crazy HS and power yes. The 500th is going to be the new JGF king on either 13 or 14 tooth, if you look at the specs it can pull almost 200 watts more and many more amps, with newest tech lipos no issue there, should be killer. I am going to be trying one of these very soon and get some data off of it.

Finless · 01-05-2007, 12:46 AM

John, I tried this motor and honestly on 11T I did not like it as much as the 430L on 13T. If it was all that, why would that not be in the SE kits now?

What makes you say this motor is better please?

Bob

Plane Hazza · 01-05-2007, 06:18 AM

I've been running the 4050 430L with the 35G ESC for a while. Using 11t pinion. Seems good to me

Finless · 01-05-2007, 06:52 AM

Well again I tried it... Head speed was lower than I liked and because of the 11T pinion it bogged more that I liked.....

I guess we all have our own likes

Bob

Plane Hazza · 01-05-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finless

Well again I tried it... Head speed was lower than I liked and because of the 11T pinion it bogged more that I liked.....

I guess we all have our own likes

Bob

I don't understand how a 11T would bog more than a 13T? It's like pulling away in a car in 1st and then pulling away in 2nd. Surely a 13T will likely bog more?

Sunkan · 01-05-2007, 08:14 AM

Correct me if I am wrong but I think that an 4000kv motor has more rpm but less torque compared to for example an 3000kv motor.

So you cannot say that an 4000kv motor will bog less than an 3000kv motor.
I think that the most important thing is to get the headspeed you want with the amount of throttle you want (say maybe around 85-90%) this will be a combination of battery voltage, motor kv, pinion.

Plane Hazza · 01-05-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finless

John, I tried this motor and honestly on 11T I did not like it as much as the 430L on 13T. If it was all that, why would that not be in the SE kits now?

What makes you say this motor is better please?

Bob

You said it yourself, when has Align ever listened to you Finless? Big mistake on their part...

Plane Hazza · 01-05-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunkan

Correct me if I am wrong but I think that an 4000kv motor has more rpm but less torque compared to for example an 3000kv motor.

So you cannot say that an 4000kv motor will bog less than an 3000kv motor.
I think that the most important thing is to get the headspeed you want with the amount of throttle you want (say maybe around 85-90%) this will be a combination of battery voltage, motor kv, pinion.

hehe yup. 4050kv on 4S at 100%. That would be insane HS!

Sunkan · 01-05-2007, 10:36 AM

I just mean that you can not compare 11T vs. 13T on the same motor in the same way as 13T on a lower kv motor compared to 11T on a higher kv motor.

Plane Hazza · 01-05-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunkan

I just mean that you can not compare 11T vs. 13T on the same motor in the same way as 13T on a lower kv motor compared to 11T on a higher kv motor.

I wasn't

I was merely saying that I don't understand how 11T can bog more than an 13T (any motor). My first post was irrelevant to motor type

OICU812 · 01-05-2007, 03:30 PM

It is about the sweet spot for rpm of the motor in discussion. Having a higher tooth count pinion may get it at it's optimum range. For some motors best touque can be at 60-75% range , while some others may like to be wide open or near in the 90-100% range, that is the answer Plane...

spork · 01-05-2007, 03:35 PM

I think it's an issue too of whether we're talking about bogging on a long climbout or on rapid maneuvers. On a long climbout I'd typically expect more bogging with the higher gear ratio. On rapid maneuvers like tic-tocs the momentum in the head might carry you through the brief moment of very high load, while the relatively low load time between tics and tocs will allow the head to come back to speed.

OICU812 · 01-05-2007, 04:07 PM

It's bogging on quick short maneuvers that would concern me more, the pop moves is where you want it to hold, in that case I myself have found that gearing up and is better imho, Headspeed can make up for alot from what I find...

spork · 01-05-2007, 04:38 PM

I think that's consistent with my "theory".

PeterV · 01-05-2007, 06:59 PM

Has anyone ever made up some sort of data sheet/spread-sheet, that includes some power/torque curve for the common motors, and output RPMs of the main common blades, all across a full throttle stick range?
And pinion sizes.
That would be something handy.

Even if it was just produced as a sort of half-theoretical one...getting some base data off bench mounting a heli and thus being able to grab just some load points. And then filling in the rest of the curves based on knowing which are theoretically linear and which are exponentials or whatever.

If you strapped a heli to a set of scales to measure loads produced you should be able measure a true hover pitch for a start, and thus tach the RPM there. You could next also simulate some manouever loadings by taking guesstimated G loadings of a manouever (eg I hit 3g for this direction change in a tic-toc) and then running test cycles of throttling up fast, to achieve that weight on the scale (a 700g Rex pulls 2100g at 3g).
Of course you would do small fast throttle ups, increasing the strength per cycle until the required G/weight was reached on that fast peak.
That should mimic true flight load characteristics.

Something for someone with LOTS of bits around - motors, blades, pinions - and time.....and a leather apron....safety goggles....

bmlasater · 01-05-2007, 07:02 PM

fwiw..

I still feel I get noticeably better performance on the 4050/11 t/Hyperion 325combo...Visibly faster climb, less bogging/hs loss in continuous climbing rolls and flips. H/s more constant means tail holds better, and the Eagle Tree says appx. 15% more power going into the system than the 3550/13 t. Also will pull an honest 12/12 pitch without overheating/bogging..I prefer the 3550 on 12 t, but the h/s is then just a bit too low..Perhaps others will not find this combo as good, but it sure works for my flying style. I'll be trying this motor with the Align CF blades tomorrow...We'll see if it works as well....

John.

01-04-2007, 08:00 PM	#1
supertrex2 Registered Users Join Date: May 2006 Location: Florida	4050 KV new motor hey guys, anyone have tried this motor yet? with the Stock 35Align ESC? __________________ oh ohh its going down...S$%#T...relax.. relax.... concentrate......try to control.. oooops too late... already crashed!

01-04-2007, 08:38 PM	#2
Raydee Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Buffalo, NY	Who is it made by? __________________ Logo 500se VBar Pro 5.3 Align Trex 700 DFC HV Vbar Pro 5.3 Align Trex 500 EFL Pro Mini Vbar 5.3 Outrage Fusion 50 6s Vbar Pro 5.3

01-04-2007, 10:46 PM	#4
supertrex2 Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Florida	4050 KV motor is made by Align. Have you tried running this motor with 13T pinnion? __________________ oh ohh its going down...S$%#T...relax.. relax.... concentrate......try to control.. oooops too late... already crashed!

01-05-2007, 12:19 AM	#5
OICU812 Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edson, Alberta, Canada	bmlasater Danny J been running the 450F with 12 tooth, crazy HS and power yes. The 500th is going to be the new JGF king on either 13 or 14 tooth, if you look at the specs it can pull almost 200 watts more and many more amps, with newest tech lipos no issue there, should be killer. I am going to be trying one of these very soon and get some data off of it. __________________ ...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars & frequency pins...Shawn To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-05-2007, 12:46 AM	#6
Finless Team Taco VP My HF Map location Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Stanton, Ca. USA	John, I tried this motor and honestly on 11T I did not like it as much as the 430L on 13T. If it was all that, why would that not be in the SE kits now? What makes you say this motor is better please? Bob __________________ "Don't Taco My Pack Dude!" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.*

01-04-2007, 09:40 PM	#3
bmlasater Registered Users Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Orange county CA usa	fwiw.. My favorite 450 motor...Much more power than 3550, runs best on 11 T...I've been waiting for word on this to get out..It's the best kept secret in TRexland... John.

01-05-2007, 06:18 AM	#7
Plane Hazza Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newcastle, England	I've been running the 4050 430L with the 35G ESC for a while. Using 11t pinion. Seems good to me __________________ Trex 450XL (HDE), 430L (4050kV) , Hitec 56HB/65MG servos, Futaba GY401, Futaba R146iP Rx, Align35G ESC, 325 Pro Wood, Poly Pro 2100mAh 3S 20C LiPo

01-05-2007, 06:52 AM	#8
Finless Team Taco VP My HF Map location Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Stanton, Ca. USA	Well again I tried it... Head speed was lower than I liked and because of the 11T pinion it bogged more that I liked..... I guess we all have our own likes Bob __________________ "Don't Taco My Pack Dude!" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.*

01-05-2007, 08:14 AM	#10
Sunkan Registered Users Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Stockholm (Sweden)	Correct me if I am wrong but I think that an 4000kv motor has more rpm but less torque compared to for example an 3000kv motor. So you cannot say that an 4000kv motor will bog less than an 3000kv motor. I think that the most important thing is to get the headspeed you want with the amount of throttle you want (say maybe around 85-90%) this will be a combination of battery voltage, motor kv, pinion.

01-05-2007, 10:36 AM	#13
Sunkan Registered Users Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Stockholm (Sweden)	I just mean that you can not compare 11T vs. 13T on the same motor in the same way as 13T on a lower kv motor compared to 11T on a higher kv motor.

01-05-2007, 03:30 PM	#15
OICU812 Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edson, Alberta, Canada	It is about the sweet spot for rpm of the motor in discussion. Having a higher tooth count pinion may get it at it's optimum range. For some motors best touque can be at 60-75% range , while some others may like to be wide open or near in the 90-100% range, that is the answer Plane... __________________ ...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars & frequency pins...Shawn To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-05-2007, 03:35 PM	#16
spork Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Mtn View, CA (S.F. Bay Area)	I think it's an issue too of whether we're talking about bogging on a long climbout or on rapid maneuvers. On a long climbout I'd typically expect more bogging with the higher gear ratio. On rapid maneuvers like tic-tocs the momentum in the head might carry you through the brief moment of very high load, while the relatively low load time between tics and tocs will allow the head to come back to speed. __________________ Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems.

01-05-2007, 04:07 PM	#17
OICU812 Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edson, Alberta, Canada	It's bogging on quick short maneuvers that would concern me more, the pop moves is where you want it to hold, in that case I myself have found that gearing up and is better imho, Headspeed can make up for alot from what I find... __________________ ...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars & frequency pins...Shawn To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-05-2007, 04:38 PM	#18
spork Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Mtn View, CA (S.F. Bay Area)	I think that's consistent with my "theory". __________________ Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems.

01-05-2007, 06:59 PM	#19
PeterV Registered Users Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Has anyone ever made up some sort of data sheet/spread-sheet, that includes some power/torque curve for the common motors, and output RPMs of the main common blades, all across a full throttle stick range? And pinion sizes. That would be something handy. Even if it was just produced as a sort of half-theoretical one...getting some base data off bench mounting a heli and thus being able to grab just some load points. And then filling in the rest of the curves based on knowing which are theoretically linear and which are exponentials or whatever. If you strapped a heli to a set of scales to measure loads produced you should be able measure a true hover pitch for a start, and thus tach the RPM there. You could next also simulate some manouever loadings by taking guesstimated G loadings of a manouever (eg I hit 3g for this direction change in a tic-toc) and then running test cycles of throttling up fast, to achieve that weight on the scale (a 700g Rex pulls 2100g at 3g). Of course you would do small fast throttle ups, increasing the strength per cycle until the required G/weight was reached on that fast peak. That should mimic true flight load characteristics. Something for someone with LOTS of bits around - motors, blades, pinions - and time.....and a leather apron....safety goggles....

01-05-2007, 07:02 PM	#20
bmlasater Registered Users Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Orange county CA usa	fwiw.. I still feel I get noticeably better performance on the 4050/11 t/Hyperion 325combo...Visibly faster climb, less bogging/hs loss in continuous climbing rolls and flips. H/s more constant means tail holds better, and the Eagle Tree says appx. 15% more power going into the system than the 3550/13 t. Also will pull an honest 12/12 pitch without overheating/bogging..I prefer the 3550 on 12 t, but the h/s is then just a bit too low..Perhaps others will not find this combo as good, but it sure works for my flying style. I'll be trying this motor with the Align CF blades tomorrow...We'll see if it works as well.... John.

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