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250 Class Electric Helicopters 250 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 11-07-2010, 02:09 PM   #1
ValHeli
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Default Help a Newb w/ his xmas list

Hi guys, I'm currently in Iraq and it seems I won't be coming home for the holidays. So as a xmas gift to myself I decided on getting a Trex 250 which I think is the perfect size to fly around inside our hangar. Here's what I have planned so far:

Tx / Rx: DX8 / AR8000
servos: 3x Hitec 5065mg
tail servo: ds3500g
gyro: Spartan Quark
motor: ????
esc: castle creations phoenix 25 esc
Align 3g flybarless kit
batteries: ????
extra blades: ????

The mail here is a little slow and I would like to get everything here before December. I would like to get either the best or second best electronics / parts that are (somewhat) reasonably priced so I would very much appreciate you guys' corrections and suggestions to my list. Thank you all in advance!
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:19 PM   #2
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I would get the SE Super Combo. The motor, esc, and gyro are pretty good. The cyclic servos are decent. May want to replace the tail servo after some time. If I had to get a new transmitter, I think I'd get a Futaba 8FG...looks so nice
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:24 PM   #3
dze
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i wouldnt mess with the fbl unless you just want to .. i personally dont like hitech servos and would go with inolab202 on cyclic, align carbon blades .. motor i like the stock align and its got plenty uf punch up to pretty advanced 3D .. if you want more the scorpion then, get a couple each of 15/16 pinions so you have options .. batteries since your going high-end i would get some hyperion 850's about 6 of them, fly them for 4, get a fusuno canopy .. my unadulterated 2 cents
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:12 PM   #4
yellowpecora
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValHeli View Post
Tx / Rx: DX8 / AR8000
Hi,
I do use a DX8 with a 250SE myself, but I got to tell you to get another RX for it. The AR8000 is awesome, but a bit too cumbersome for the little room you have in a 250, and moreover it NEEDS the included satellite (i.e. even more room) to be connected at all times or you won't get any response past the initialisation phase (Spektrum feature).

Get an AR6100/6100E for the bird, it works all right. That's what I installed on my first 250SE, and now I'm planning to put the AR8000 in the MD500E scale 250SE I'm building (where space is somewhat less precious).

Also, if you get the super combo, I have to say all the components are perfectly fine except perhaps for the DS420 tail servo. Get a larger yet fast enough servo instead (JR3500G, HS5084, S9257) and you'll avoid ramming your head on the wall trying to get rid of the tail wag.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:20 PM   #5
grumpy42
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For the receiver get an AR6110E
The HS5065 are great cyclic servos
My feeling is that the 3500g is over-sized for this class heli, but according to the majority here it will definitely get the job done.
The stock motor seems pretty good (I don't do 3D) but if you want more power get the Hyperion motor (same as scorpion but better bearings).
I don't have any experience with the CC25 but it seems to be a good ESC - just make sure you get the newer 3A BEC version

The 3G is a 3-axis system so the quark is not really necessary - unless the 3G tail gyro does not provide the performance that you desire. If that is the case you may wish to look into a higher end FBL stabilization system (i.e. mini VBar) that would not necessitate purchasing a separate tail gyro. I will defer to those with actual FBL experience.

But, you may just want to stick to flybarred and outfit it with high end components.

Here is a list of upgrades that you might be interested in:
Metal tail boom mount
Metal rudder servo mounts
Metal main shaft bearing blocks
KDE metal bottom plate
Microheli tail boom support
CF tail rotor push rod

Good hex drivers are a must
MIP .9mm driver
MIP 1.27mm driver (I believe that MIP now makes a true 1.3mm drive, but I don't have a link to that one)

Since it is difficult for you to get parts you will want to stock up on spares:
main blades
tail blades
main shaft
tail shaft/pulley
main gear with auto-rotation hub
pinions
feathering shafts
tail booms
boom supports
landing gear
flybars (if applicable)
Tail belts
Extra links
250 Hardware bag

That should keep you in the air for all but the most catastrophic crashes.
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Old 11-07-2010, 07:11 PM   #6
RyuuChi
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you're all forgeting a good 3G and FBL head!! I love mine!
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:05 AM   #7
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+1 on the super combo with everything in it. and as for reciever go with the 6100e perfect size for the 250...
if you want FBL go with BEast X. super easy to setup haven't heard great things about Aligns 3g unit, heard they rushed it..

don't forget to stock up on spare parts..
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:23 AM   #8
suresharp
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+1 with FurryTrex on his suggestions and you should take note that the parts and screws are very small Imean small (order extra screw pack). If you have fat fingers it is just plain pain full to get this model built. Once built it is great fly. I fly mine everyday just because of its size. If you want fast this little bird will go out sight fast. Portability is easy and spare parts kit takes up very little space. This is a very solid Helli
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Old 11-08-2010, 06:48 AM   #9
ValHeli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FurryTrex View Post
if you want FBL go with BEast X. super easy to setup haven't heard great things about Aligns 3g unit, heard they rushed it..

don't forget to stock up on spare parts..
I'm really leaning towards an FBL system bec from what i've read so far, it really helps outs beginners develop their flight skills.

As for the microbeast, does this also get rid of the tail gyro? I've only found it at heliflightcenter and is currently out of stock. I wanted to go with the skookum 720 bec of the bail out feature, but i've read some folks here are having problems with it. Is there any other FBL system w/ bail out feature that's easy to set up?
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Old 11-08-2010, 06:53 AM   #10
ValHeli
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double post. sorry mods, my internet is very unreliable

Last edited by ValHeli; 11-08-2010 at 08:59 AM..
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:39 AM   #11
RyuuChi
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... well, I'm having good results w. My 3g ... but i do realize that there are better gyros out there...
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Old 11-08-2010, 01:42 PM   #12
ValHeli
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Default Xmas List Rev 1.0

Ok guys here's my Rev 1.0 list:

Tx / Rx DX8 / AR6100E
Kit: SE Super Combo
Servos: included
Tail Servo: JR3500
Gyro: included
Motor/esc: included
Batteries: Hyperion 3s 850mah
Charger: Hyperion duo III

FBL : still need some advice, what do you guys think about the V-bar? Which FBL head?

Tools and spares: Going with Grumpy42's recommendations

Good hex drivers are a must
MIP .9mm driver
MIP 1.27mm driver (I believe that MIP now makes a true 1.3mm drive, but I don't have a link to that one)

Since it is difficult for you to get parts you will want to stock up on spares:
main blades
tail blades
main shaft
tail shaft/pulley
main gear with auto-rotation hub
pinions
feathering shafts
tail booms
boom supports
landing gear
flybars (if applicable)
Tail belts
Extra links
250 Hardware bag

Any more suggestions and advice is greatly appreciated and thank you all for not telling me to back read like other forums. My internet here is so slow and buggy that I would honestly kill for dial-up right about now.
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Old 11-08-2010, 02:44 PM   #13
grumpy42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValHeli View Post
Kit: SE Super Combo
Servos: included
Gyro: included
Motor/esc: included
I think that this is a bit of a downgrade from your initial list. The electronics you had originally picked out are much better than those included in the super combo. You are already using a different tail gyro than what is included in the combo. If you choose to go FBL, then the included gyro will probably go unused.

I still say go with the SE kit and outfit with electronics of your choice.

Also, while many people are using the stock ESC, I read enough posts about BEC failures to make me nervous (I am using a JETI Spin 22 instead). I am not certain, but I believe that a FBL setup is more demanding on the the cyclic servos thus requiring more of the BEC.

Also, some of the upgrades that I listed may be not affect performance that much, but I think that the following upgrades are a must:
Metal tail boom mount (prevents boom from slipping in the mount)
Metal rudder servo mounts (especially important for a large servo like the 3500g)
CF tail rotor push rod
Metal Tail rotor control arm (I for got this one in my initial list)
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Old 11-08-2010, 03:21 PM   #14
dze
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super combo will be fine i think, i like that, still say you should forget the fbl unless you just want it .. i would invest that capital into doubling or tripling up on some parts and an extra servo set.. given the situation i would want a judicious supply of maingear/ar hubs, every shaft, mainblades, plastic link sets, bottom plates/skids on top of enough parts to have a barebones heli sitting there. Flybarless for what? To jack the price up and be suave? the idea is to fly right?
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Old 11-08-2010, 03:49 PM   #15
ValHeli
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Grumpy42,

Thank you sir, I'll be getting all the parts and tools you suggested plus upgrades. I didn't mention it on the list but I am still getting the ino-lab 202 or hitec 5065 servos. Please, if you have any motor/esc/bec recos, i'd very much like to hear them. I'm doing some reading now on skookum robotics 720 (which is currently making my head spin).

Dze,

Thank you for your recommendations and yes I do want an FBL system as I've read from another thread that it makes for a much more stable flight and 3d maneuvers. I understand that the price does get jacked up considerably but I think it pays for itself if it'll help me avoid crashes (bail out system on skookum or similar ). Being a tech fanboy I'm just amazed with the technology and would like to understand it better.

BTW guys, anymore tools you'd want to recommend?
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:23 PM   #16
grumpy42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dze View Post
Flybarless for what? To jack the price up and be suave? the idea is to fly right?
I tend to agree. FBL seems to be a bit of a trend lately, but I really don't know what benefits it provides (especially for a beginner). It seems that it just one more variable that can cause problems. You can always upgrade to FBL later. The cost will be the same since you can't buy the trex with just the FBL head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dze View Post
i would invest that capital into doubling or tripling up on some parts and an extra servo set..
+1
Definitely a better use of funds. The 250 3G kit is $370. You could buy a SECOND super combo for that! (Still not a fan of the super combo though )
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:29 PM   #17
grumpy42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValHeli View Post
I didn't mention it on the list but I am still getting the ino-lab 202 or hitec 5065 servos.
Then there is definitely no reason to go with the super combo.

You may also want to buy a pinion puller and a link sizer/reamer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValHeli View Post
Grumpy42,
if it'll help me avoid crashes (bail out system on skookum or similar )
If you are interested in a system that provide full flight stabilization (as opposed to just compensating for lack of flybar) and training modes, you might want to consider the Gyrobot 900 (has beginner and beginner acro modes) or the Helicommand Rigid. Both can be used with or without a flybar.

But as I pointed out, for the cost of a stabilization system you can have a second fully outfitted 250 (or even a third for the cost of the Gyrobot).
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:52 PM   #18
ValHeli
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I see your point Dez, Grumpy42 on using the capital for spares. I've only flown using realflight G5. I flew all the helos on the sim and paid myself a dollar for every crash. After a few months of this I've been crashing much less. So I upped the ante to 5 bucks per crash, and then eventually 10 bucks.( Needless to say I've saved quite a fortune and is the reason behind why I want top of the line parts.) Nowadays I only crash when I'm doing something I'm not quite familiar with. ...Then again, it's still just a sim. The model flies perfect everytime and I haven't even accounted for mechanical failures or electronic glitches. I haven't flown an actual helo yet so based on some reviews i've read, I wanted to jump on the FBL band wagon to get into actual 3d flying asap (my goal was to program the trex to behave like the dominion 3d in the sim). The biggest disadvantage I see on this is that when a failure does occur, then i would be more confused if it's due to poor setup of the model or poor setup of the FBL system as I have neither experience in both.

Since i'm still in the beginning / learning stages of my flying career then I think it would be wise to experience how a helo feels without the aid of electronic compensation. I'll give it a few months as I did with the sim, do some actual 3d flying and when I get that down pat, i'll eventually move on to FBL.

Grumpy42, I'll be revising my list back to just SE combo (sans super). Do you think the motor / esc that comes with it sufficient? I would prefer an esc that has a built in bec to save space and streamline the setup.
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Old 11-09-2010, 01:00 AM   #19
grumpy42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValHeli View Post
Grumpy42, I'll be revising my list back to just SE combo (sans super). Do you think the motor / esc that comes with it sufficient? I would prefer an esc that has a built in bec to save space and streamline the setup.
I have found the included motor to be fine, but I don't do any 3D so you may outgrow it. However, the kit does come with the motor so just want to use it and see if it is to your liking. My only concern about the ESC, was that I read about a few BEC failures that mat made me a bit nervous. I happened to have a spare JETI SPIN 22 so I just threw that in instead. Many people seem to use the stock ESC with great success, so I may have just been overly paranoid.

Here is one other item you might want to add to your shopping list:
Scorpion pinion gear set (14T, 15T, 16T) (They use set screws instead of need to be "glued" to the motor shaft)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValHeli View Post
Since i'm still in the beginning / learning stages of my flying career then I think it would be wise to experience how a helo feels without the aid of electronic compensation.
Also, since this is your first helicopter it is good to learn how to do a standard CCPM setup (without all the electronics getting in the way). Stabilization systems can sometimes be tricky to configure and done improperly will result in the stabilization system crashing the helicopter.
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:02 AM   #20
ValHeli
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This venture is proving to be more frustrating than I anticipated. Most of the shops I look at that deliver to an APO address are out of stock on the DX8. Any suggestions on a suitable replacement?
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250 Class Electric Helicopters 250 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.

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