Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > 550 Class Electric Helicopters


550 Class Electric Helicopters 550 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-17-2010, 09:37 AM   #1
mickshalldale@yahoo.com
Registered Users
 

Join Date: May 2010
Location: us
Default can stock setup with 550mm blades handle 100% flat throtle curve for 3d

i recently got a pair of 550 blades and wanted to try them out. i run 95 90 95 in stund one and 100 flat in stunt two for my throttle curve

will the stock esc and motor handle the 550mm blades and 95mm tail blades at a 100 percent flat tc????

or wiil this cause it to overheat
mickshalldale@yahoo.com is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 11:09 AM   #2
Wolfi
Registered Users
 
Posts: 100
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV Austria/Europe
Default

Depends on your motor pinion too. Which pinion are you running?

IMO it's a little risky with the stock ESC, I wouldn't do it. I don't trust the stock ESC. But that's just me.
Wolfi is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 03:44 PM   #3
mickshalldale@yahoo.com
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: May 2010
Location: us
Default

i have the stock 16 tooth pinion on the motor. what are the chanced of the esc burning out would u say ????

i worried about it burnin up but damm it its all built and ready to fly and its hard to ressist it setting there lol ???
mickshalldale@yahoo.com is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 03:47 PM   #4
Spork01
Fear the Spork!!
 
Posts: 5,005
 

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Default

your chances of burning up the stock esc is very high if you run the 550mm blades. I have seen 150+ amps spike on the 600m motor at 100% with 16T. and that was with the 520mm blades.

__________________
Gaui X3 mini vbar,Fusion 50 beastx,Trex 450 pro v2 spartan vx1e,trex 500 esp mini vbar, Goblin 500 spartan vx1e,Blade 180 cfx
Spork01 is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 05:04 PM   #5
jasonr
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: lunenburg, ma
Default

think you should do shorter tail blades too fyi. i put neon orange ones on and they only had shorter than stock- they look pretty close to the main blades at some angles, i think its a must have.
__________________
trex 600 esp- stretched, 12s scorpion 4025 630- hv 85, trex 550e microbeast, flybarless-ice 100-553
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
edge fbl blades-scorpion 4025-1100, dx7 SE, mcpx stretched- bone stock
jasonr is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 05:05 PM   #6
Wolfi
Registered Users
 
Posts: 100
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV Austria/Europe
Default

I would buy a better ESC like a CC ICE 100 or something similar, its cheaper than rebuilding the 550 after it burned up.

Your stock ESC will explode like a fire cracker with this setup
Wolfi is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 05:32 PM   #7
Wolfpackin
HF Support
 
Posts: 11,404
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eagle, CO
Default

Quote:
what are the chanced of the esc burning out would u say ????
Nobody can answer that with any degree of certainty.
A lot has to do with flying style, setup, pitch ranges and ambient temperature.
Since you didn't indicate where you live we have no idea whether you're flying in South Florida or Alaska, and that will make a big difference.

How were your ESC temperatures on the 520mm blades at 100% throttle?

The main thing is, if you're going to try this new setup you need to monitor amp draw and data logs or at the very least watch the ESC temperatures very closely for the first several flights.

Good luck.
__________________
Jonathan Livingston Helicopter
Blade 400: E-flite 420H/35X ESC, AR6100e, HS65HB x 3, G401B/DS290G. (Ret.)
CopterX 450AE V2: 430XL/35X ESC, AR6100, HS65HB x 3, LTG2100T/HSG-5084MG.
T-Rex 550E V1 Classic Flybar: 600MX/BL70G, AR6200, DS610 x 3, Quark/DS650, 16t/520mm blades.
Wolfpackin is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2010, 11:51 PM   #8
Blades345
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,148
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Florida
Default

Why do you need to fly at 100% throttle curve? Your HS is going to be extremely high and your flights will be much shorter. Are you really going to be needing all that power?
__________________
When you don't feel like soaring through the wind with a plane,, BEAT IT INTO SUBMISSION WITH A HELI!!!

No helis right now!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Maybe I'll be back in another year!
Blades345 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2010, 12:30 AM   #9
philipfrank
 

Join Date: May 2004
Location: ft, worth
Default

you can pull 210+ amps at 2500 rpm on every flight with 550mm blades if you tend to use lots of sky.
philipfrank is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2010, 01:04 AM   #10
Wolfpackin
HF Support
 
Posts: 11,404
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eagle, CO
Default

...and what amperage could you pull doing the exact same flying with 520mm blades?
I ask because I'm curious how much of a difference slightly more than an inch actually makes.
__________________
Jonathan Livingston Helicopter
Blade 400: E-flite 420H/35X ESC, AR6100e, HS65HB x 3, G401B/DS290G. (Ret.)
CopterX 450AE V2: 430XL/35X ESC, AR6100, HS65HB x 3, LTG2100T/HSG-5084MG.
T-Rex 550E V1 Classic Flybar: 600MX/BL70G, AR6200, DS610 x 3, Quark/DS650, 16t/520mm blades.
Wolfpackin is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2010, 02:06 AM   #11
philipfrank
 

Join Date: May 2004
Location: ft, worth
Default

i'd suspect a bigger difference than we might think.

the 550mm blades are longer, wider cord, and heavier.

the difference in flight 'feel', to me, is significant.

since flying the 550mm blades, i've had no desire to fly the 520's.

big is good. will be interested in trying the align fbl 550 blades when they are available.
philipfrank is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2010, 02:27 AM   #12
philipfrank
 

Join Date: May 2004
Location: ft, worth
Default

i'd suspect a bigger difference than we might think.

the 550mm blades are longer, wider cord, and heavier.

the difference in flight 'feel', to me, is significant.

since flying the 550mm blades, i've had no desire to fly the 520's.

big is good. will be interested in trying the align fbl 550 blades when they are available.
philipfrank is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2010, 03:39 AM   #13
popadel
Registered Users
 
Posts: 231
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Johannesburg
Default

Here are my thoughts on all this...

I have a wide range of helies and wanted to test this 550 FBL to see what its like. Love it.

I have since tested a couple of motors, esc and blades. I can tell you this, i often observe many people who say they fly 3D and when they arrive at the flying field their skills are far from it which means that they never really stress components to the max, and hence they often think that these bits are good enough. I am merciless and have paid serious school fees on this front over the years.

Now.... 550 blades on stock setup is gona fry the ESC if you fly it flat out 3D on 40C 5200 lipos. i even dared to test it twice and used 550 Wide Chord and that one lasted all of 1 min. LOL In the end a good substitute for the OEM ESC is the 600ESP 100A esc. Good value for money and if you pari it up with a BEC Pro i can really see how a Castle Creations will do any better. And before anyone gets excited i have Castle Creations 160A in all my helies as well as the BEC Pro... except this one. I wanted to test the CC Ice 120A and after testing it with the CC 160 A as well it seems that a 100A from Align will do just fine on 520 blades for hard 3D. The 550blades will be too much for the Align 100A ESC so if you want 3D on 550...change to a 120A or higher ESC right away. A BEC Pro is also great on 6S so this is a good fit. I use JR 8117 servos and these suck up power. Tail is a 8900 which is not great in my books as i use BLS 251 narrow band on most of my helies but its well suited to the smaller bird.

The stock motor is unbelievably good. I have a range of Scorpion motors and old Align motors and in the end I stuck with the OEM 600m. Realise they released a 600MX so not sure what thatís like but will try it soon, however i doubt it will be any stronger than the 1800W 600M. Odd thing is that its rated for 2200W max but the amps it puls tells a different story. Closer to 2500W.

Re tail blades and 550's ....again if you fly hard 3D you will loose the helie. I ran 85's with the 550 and the tail authority was not great. Incerasing gyro gain made it more twitch and so it becomes a lost cause. However the 85 work well on 515 or 520 and the 90ís are probably a good fit too but i prefer to use the necessary amount and use it to the max than put on bigger blades, drop the gain and stress the motor for no real gains.

Regarding head speed for 3D. This is very much a personal preference as headspeed results in vibration of some sort and i found on this helie that a HS lower than recommended makes it more stable and consistent in the air. Its the secondary vibrations that count (harmonics) I ended up using a 15 pinion on the 170 straight cut gear (I tried the helical 188/18 - dont think its great) and with a one tooth lower than OEM I can run 100TC. Tacho shows 2200RPM (which means motor is 85-90% efficient) and the dip at 13 deg pitch is to about 2000 if you donít hold it there long. If I keep it there long it dips to 1850, but itís a flying style thing and no need to use more collective than necessary for a manoeuvre. As an example doing Aileron toc toks if you increase the collective to more than needed to make the pupms more aggressive you can literally slow it enough that it falls from the sky. Its recoverable if your high enough but this shows taht even on lower pinions and 520 blades you can still drop it from the sky. On the 550 and 550 WC it bogs fast and so hard that it limits the sequence of moves to allow HS to adjust. This is good for sport flying or floating around. Not ideal for 3D and even Alan showed that in not being as back to back and aggressive on 550 vs 520 blades. Also the 550ís make it more stable and thatís what you DONT want for 3D as it works against you.

Autorotation: it auto nicely on 550 and 550 WC if you loose power in normal flight (i.e. no 3D). On 520 if you loose power after a hard collective move during 3D and your say 10m above the ground there is nothing left in the blades to take you down safely. (i know i just lost a another set of blades autoing in from a tic-tok landing on the skids which broke on one side and it toppled over at the very end. It came down too hard and that was using all i could to try keep it level after the power stopped while the helie was pointing to the sky. If youíre flying normally on 520ís and loose power there is ample left for a decent auto and its forgiving in some cases, but this never applies to losing power on 520ís during hard 3d where you always on the ragged point of bogging the blades between moves.

I think this is a great park helie. its small enough to fly in a smallish space (i have 10 000m square at home in the middle of the suburbs) and itís also agile enough to make one connect with it as they would with a decent 450 and a scorpion -6 motor. However its far from a a strong 600 12S or a 700 12S on Scorpion or Neu motors pulling 7-9Kw. Then again those you will not want to fly in a small space for safety reasons.

Still it has become my new 450 and my current 450Pro FBL Scorpion - 6 is collecting dust.

Last point to make. I changed the landing gear on this thing to the same as i have on my competition helies. Itís a more robust and flexible gear so that if i ever do need to drop it on the landing gear i donít end up buying blades thanks to it toppling over. The OEM landing gear plastic is too brittle and should have done a better job!
__________________
TREX 700 YS 120, <>T-Rex 700E 3G, <>600 ESP 3G 4035-630, <>T-Rex 450 Pro 3G, 550E 3G Scorp 4035 560
popadel is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2010, 09:23 PM   #14
Blades345
Registered Users
 
Posts: 3,148
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Florida
Default

I agree with you for the most part Popadel, but I don't agree with you on the ESC. I am running the stock ESC on the 550 with a PRO BEC and 553mm blades at 87%, which is around 2480rpm and I fly 3D. I am not flying sport like some guys do, I fly actual 3D with tic tocs, piro flips, funnels, hurricanes etc. I am not a hardcore 3D guy like Tareq, but I do stress the heli for 4min 45secs and my ESC is not cooked or even hot. My ESC comes down pretty warm, but not hot. I think the 550mm blades are great for 3D and make the heli have a much bigger feel, plus it autos much better with the 550mm on there.
__________________
When you don't feel like soaring through the wind with a plane,, BEAT IT INTO SUBMISSION WITH A HELI!!!

No helis right now!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Maybe I'll be back in another year!
Blades345 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2010, 03:37 AM   #15
popadel
Registered Users
 
Posts: 231
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Johannesburg
Default

I spent time with Tareq when I lived in Dubai for a few years and yes he does fly very well and is a humble man. Also maybe i should note that I now live at 6000ft above sea level and I do feel iv vs. flying at the coast.
__________________
TREX 700 YS 120, <>T-Rex 700E 3G, <>600 ESP 3G 4035-630, <>T-Rex 450 Pro 3G, 550E 3G Scorp 4035 560
popadel is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2010, 07:09 AM   #16
markleyland
Registered Users
 
Posts: 4,106
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Colchester, UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by popadel View Post
Last point to make. I changed the landing gear on this thing to the same as i have on my competition helies. It’s a more robust and flexible gear so that if i ever do need to drop it on the landing gear i don’t end up buying blades thanks to it toppling over. The OEM landing gear plastic is too brittle and should have done a better job!
What skids are those then as I want some. I agree the stock are very brittle. I have KDE/NEU and Jive 100+ on my 550 and it's got lots of power, not sure I want to go with larger blades as it flies real nice as is but wont count it out at a later date. Cheers for the good info.
__________________
"Sort your head out and fly with your heart"
Trex 450 SE V2: 9257 tail, Spartan Quark, HS65mg cyclic, DX7-AR7000, NEU 1107h/2y, Jazz Esc,
Trex 550 FBL: Jive 100+LV, KDE/NEU 1907H/1/N42, Vbar 5.3, Futaba BLS 251

Last edited by markleyland; 11-19-2010 at 02:01 PM..
markleyland is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2010, 12:28 PM   #17
Wolfpackin
HF Support
 
Posts: 11,404
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eagle, CO
Default

Quote:
Also maybe i should note that I now live at 6000ft above sea level and I do feel iv vs. flying at the coast.
Flatlander, lol.

I live and fly at about 7500 FASL sometimes closer to 8,000.
But this is the only place I've flown so I have no idea what I'm missing.
__________________
Jonathan Livingston Helicopter
Blade 400: E-flite 420H/35X ESC, AR6100e, HS65HB x 3, G401B/DS290G. (Ret.)
CopterX 450AE V2: 430XL/35X ESC, AR6100, HS65HB x 3, LTG2100T/HSG-5084MG.
T-Rex 550E V1 Classic Flybar: 600MX/BL70G, AR6200, DS610 x 3, Quark/DS650, 16t/520mm blades.
Wolfpackin is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2010, 10:45 AM   #18
JoseReyes
Registered Users
 
Posts: 582
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA, WA, Steilacoom
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades345 View Post
I agree with you for the most part Popadel, but I don't agree with you on the ESC. I am running the stock ESC on the 550 with a PRO BEC and 553mm blades at 87%, which is around 2480rpm and I fly 3D. I am not flying sport like some guys do, I fly actual 3D with tic tocs, piro flips, funnels, hurricanes etc. I am not a hardcore 3D guy like Tareq, but I do stress the heli for 4min 45secs and my ESC is not cooked or even hot. My ESC comes down pretty warm, but not hot. I think the 550mm blades are great for 3D and make the heli have a much bigger feel, plus it autos much better with the 550mm on there.

With your 553mm main blades, which tail blade size are you using? 85 or 86's?
JoseReyes is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > 550 Class Electric Helicopters


550 Class Electric Helicopters 550 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com