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Old 12-01-2010, 11:00 AM   #1
schnellschnell
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Default Slow figure 8s vs fast

I am using the Phoenix sim as I build my 450 Sport.

My hovering is good tail and side in, nose in is pretty good too. I started finally getting the hang of doing loops around while banked. (There is a lot to manage on the sticks!) But it feels good. Last bit I have been doing some 8s and direction changes to practice both turns and I am feeling good about it.

The issue is that I can't seem to do anything -slow-. I start off slow but after a few turns with some banking the speed increases until it is going pretty fast again. Is there a trick to have it slowly do 8s? Is it just control and time? Is it normal to do fast turns before slow ones?

Thanks for your help.

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Old 12-01-2010, 11:57 AM   #2
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Yup, doing things slower is typically more difficult because it requires a fair amount more control to do. I do believe that it will just be control and time like you said that will help, the latter being the one that's probably most helpful. Just my .02
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:52 PM   #3
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Hey Mate, there's no "trick" to flying slow. Just have to get out of airplaning mentality of tilt / go in forward motion. It's all a boring, rapid fire tx stick motions. Gotta make the heli swim or porpoise. You know back / forth just like when you learned to hover. As soon as it moves yo gotta hit the brakes, and again, again... There is no "MAGIC SWEETSPOT" that allows the perfect helicopter tilt or lean for perfect slow speed. Newbies(w/$$$$) end up spending more money on larger heli's in pursuit of the holy grail of "big stable helis". No such thing, it will just be a stable floater. Just takes hardwork and practice. You will find that flying fast and slow are two unique/separate skills that you must master by practicing individually. Don't try to "mesh" both techniques. You'll end up sloppy or lose confidence. Watch my youtube vid's(trexinvert). Keep on.

Last edited by slamdance; 12-05-2010 at 10:32 PM.. Reason: spellcheck
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:58 PM   #4
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On your flight simulator. Use an airfield with a street that has lines, and fly over it like you are driving a car. Over, over, over....again. Then try it backwards. Then try it sideways with nose down turns. Then try it sideways with tail-down turns. It's just hardwork. Play with your physics settings when learning or figuring things out, turn the physics % down. As you get better, crank physics back up. Also, "zoom" into that area so you can see it better. I fly at 140% physics. You can get there. Keep on practicing.

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Old 12-13-2010, 03:50 PM   #5
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Like DKS_ONE said.

It's easier to fake it when the heli is going fast. But going slow takes full control at all times.

I'm struggling with circles too and it's a long boring process that takes many crashes and patients. But anytime I think I'm not improving, I look back when I started the sim and could not even hover or do high altitude zig zags, and when doing a nose-in was impossible, now it's easy. So I think you will eventually get it. Just getting a little better every day.

When ever I get frusterated, I always think how much good I am doing for the long run.

The "big boys" have been where we are, they don't like to admit it as though it just came natural? Everyone crashes and everybody starts with baby steps.
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamdance View Post
On your flight simulator. Use an airfield with a street that has lines, and fly over it like you are driving a car. Over, over, over....again. Then try it backwards. Then try it sideways with nose down turns. Then try it sideways with tail-down turns. It's just hardwork. Play with your physics settings when learning or figuring things out, turn the physics % down. As you get better, crank physics back up. Also, "zoom" into that area so you can see it better. I fly at 140% physics. You can get there. Keep on practicing.
I have Phoenix 2.5
I am guessing default physics would be 100%? I have never messed with anything on the software. What would the benefit be to altering it especially upward which I guess would make it harder? I am trying to emulate a 450 Pro specifically as close to the real thing as it could be.....

Thx
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:57 AM   #7
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Nobody? Nobody has any advice on sim setup?
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:54 AM   #8
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Use the default setup in Phoenix with expo and set your pitch and throttle curves up in your radio linear. Don't forget to have an idle up curve as well.

Practice maintaining a constant height in your figure 8's. This will eventually help you slow them down.

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Old 12-16-2010, 09:56 AM   #9
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floop View Post
Use the default setup in Phoenix with expo and set your pitch and throttle curves up in your radio linear. Don't forget to have an idle up curve as well.

Practice maintaining a constant height in your figure 8's. This will eventually help you slow them down.

OK default settings I am cool with that as I haven't touched any of them.... So what is this 140% physics thing?

Does he mean speed? I always have this insane view of physics that they were basically unbreakable laws unless you had the power to alter speed, gravity, time, etc. I know call me crazy.....

Totally lost in the control of simland......

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Old 12-17-2010, 10:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarpilot View Post
Does he mean speed? I always have this insane view of physics that they were basically unbreakable laws unless you had the power to alter speed, gravity, time, etc. I know call me crazy.....
With software, you can alter reality. Practicing with a faster sim speed will speed up reality which requires much faster reactions. If you practice this way for a while, flying your real 450 will feel like slow motion. Slowing the sim down can be useful in getting familiar with complicated stick movements. But don't leave the sim speed slower than 100% for any length of time or it can dull your reaction timing with the real heli. Here's more from the Phoenix manual.



Quote:
Simulation Speed
This slider controls the total speed of the simulation. The default (100%) value is the normal speed of the simulation, where all models are moving at realistic velocities.
Reducing this slider below 100% will cause the simulation to appear in slow-motion, making it easier to control the simulated models.
Increasing the slider above 100% will cause the simulation to take on a "fast forward" effect, making it harder to control the simulated models.
We would not usually recommend changing this to other values than 100% except when attempting to perfect a very tricky manoeuvre, where you would set the slider to a low setting and gradually increase back to 100% as you gain proficiency.
This slider is linked to the
Simulation Speed Widget which is accessed through the View > Displays menu.


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Old 12-18-2010, 07:27 AM   #12
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Thx Greg.... It seems awful fast as it is in default settings to me. I really need to spend more time with it to improve.
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:47 AM   #13
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Personally I find the Phoenix Trex Pro a little "faster" in close-in stuff than my real one. For instance, I can do slow traveling piros close-in with the real heli. But in Phoenix, its all over the place. This seems to be less of an issue for the larger helis, or flying bigger air with the Pro.
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Old 12-18-2010, 11:12 AM   #14
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I find it to be the same and really sensitive to any input, much more so than the real model. I suppose I could add some expo but I do not have any on the model. Maybe this is why I hate to sim as it seems like I am fighting it the whole time....
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:58 PM   #15
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Default smaller space

Give yourself a smaller space to fly in. Couple times, we've had to fly in a small space because "our" field is being used by soccer practice. I hated it when it happens, but it really improves my control and focus.

I realize we're talking about the sim. Focus on precision and altitude control, and you can control speed too.

I love flying fast and big. Small and slow is a challenge.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:35 AM   #16
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Use the Sports Hall location, it'll force you into keeping things really slow and small. It's pretty tough..
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:54 AM   #17
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+1,
forces you to turn before the wall.


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Old 01-15-2011, 02:58 AM   #18
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+1

I don't have sports hall but I use my garden. In garden I don't like flying at fence level or higher - so it forces me to keep it very precise and low...
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