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450 Class Electric Helicopters 450 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 01-13-2007, 03:10 AM   #1
OICU812
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Default JGF "Just Go Fly" 500TH/install and review thread

This will start as an install notes and review thread, and eventually end up with a full flight report and data from FDR.

Here are the site specs of this motor:

Just Go Fly 500th Tractor motor
Price $59.95
Website to view or purchase:
http://justgofly.com/Order%20Form.htm#500_Motors
57 grams
32.6 mm in diamter
KV: 3381
IO: 2.4 amps @ 10V
RM: .0172
36 amp max <<<< WOW!
400 Watts <<<< WOW!

First off this motor has a real nice appearance to it and appears in full to be as all other JGF motors, made very well.


Some quick notes to know.

it comes with 4 "3mm" phillips head machine screws, I advise using 3x6mm hexheads with a lockwasher, this is perfect length through the stock rex motor plate and gets you 80% into the bottom plate of the motor itself. You will also may want to file or sand down the one side of your middle frame where the motor mount is in place, this is to allow the motor wires enough room to point forward for hookup of your esc, I did this but it is not necessary, I just did not want the wires stressed in any way or touching anything. The way the wires are situated in the can this is the only way it can be mounted, also due to the motor mount hole spacing. Next you will also need a round file or a dremel bit to widen the motor mount slots to fit the 3mm bolts as the stock slots will not allow past 2.6mm. The motor does not come with a flat spot on the main shaft, I took the dremel and the grinding disc and made a small flat spot just to be certain. These are very quick things to do and very easy, less than 5 minutes to do all, but you should be aware of these things before mounting this motor up.

The motor with Pinion on and with esc ends came in at 64 grams, compared to the NEU 1107/24 at 102 grams that is a significant weight saving!

On the bench I first tried the 14 tooth, note these are 3.17mm pinions, they can also be bought from JGF.
Anyhow 14 tooth was too much, at 75% it was in the 3300+ range. Changed to 13 tooth and recalibrated my Jazz 40-6-18 and at 75% I was getting 3000 rpm at zero pitch. I feel 13 tooth will be the best range as this 3K HS was with an older 15C lipo. New gen packs such as FlightPower 2170mah packs with 25C should get you in the 3100 range at 75%, which is perfect imho. **Note** Depending on your esc and your packs etc, you may get different RPMs than mine reported. It would be wise to get a 12,13,14 tooth to obtain your preffered Headspeed with your esc and setup. :wink: I should also say at this time it would be wise imho to make sure you are running a pack capable of delivering the power this motor will need and demand, a pack that will also take the amps and watts this baby will pull. Packs like the FlightPower 2170 25C burst packs or the TPX 3S packs should do as well. Older gen packs or cheaper lipos may result in poor performance or puffed packs.

That is as far as I am at right now. Waiting on my new FlightPower 2170 slimline packs to come in and some better weather than I will get a chance to light this baby up. So far I am thinking it will be a winner. I have had a few JGF motors on other helis in past and their performance was excellent, and Vinnie owner of JGF is a really helpfull person and stands behind his product.

Here are some pics to show the motor and some poiints discussed.
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg dsc00606.jpg (1.19 MB, 368 views)
File Type: jpg dsc00588_179.jpg (1.18 MB, 378 views)
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Last edited by OICU812; 10-29-2007 at 02:58 AM..
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:50 AM   #2
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price?

tested? how it is???
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Old 01-13-2007, 09:46 AM   #3
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Nice. Looking forward to a flight test.

I'm running the JGF 450TH and am very happy so far. The 500 should be off the charts!
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Old 01-13-2007, 11:26 AM   #4
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Looks good Shawn! Looking forward to the flight report
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Old 01-13-2007, 01:09 PM   #5
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Nice job on this thread. Can't wait to see where it goes!

Rick
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Old 01-13-2007, 02:00 PM   #6
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Hey Shawn,
I just received my 500th motor as well and I'll be installing it soon. I have a coupe q's about your post:

1) You say your running the jazz at 75%, what is the reason to not run at 100%? If it's for head speed why not run a different pinion at 100% to achieve the desired head speed?

2) You say you re-calibrated the Jazz. How is this done? It was my understanding that each time you power up the jazz it calibrates itself to the current battery/motor setup.

I'm a bit on a nOOb when it comes to this aspect. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric James

http://www.expertmagic.com/
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Old 01-13-2007, 04:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
price?

tested? how it is???
Price = $59.95 and listed on the site I provided in original post,
http://justgofly.com/Order%20Form.htm#500_Motors

how it is? As I said in original post I have not got to the flying and flight data part as I am waiting on my lipos. Cheers.

**Note** I do not work for JGF, nor am I affiliated in any way. I am just a guy here testing a motor and sharing information for all of you, be well.
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Old 01-13-2007, 04:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker
Hey Shawn,
I just received my 500th motor as well and I'll be installing it soon. I have a coupe q's about your post:

1) You say your running the jazz at 75%, what is the reason to not run at 100%? If it's for head speed why not run a different pinion at 100% to achieve the desired head speed?

2) You say you re-calibrated the Jazz. How is this done? It was my understanding that each time you power up the jazz it calibrates itself to the current battery/motor setup.

I'm a bit on a nOOb when it comes to this aspect. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric James

http://www.expertmagic.com/
1.) Because when you run any electric on governor mode in whatever esc it is you run, it is much better to run at 75% allowing headroom for the governor to work 100%. Through hard collective maneuvers you absolutely need headroom for the under and over speed effect that takes place.

2.) Simply put the black jumper on while power is off, turn it on, pull it off after intitialization, let it beep to 1 beep, throttle stick all way up, then let it beep once disconnect the power. The re connect with jumper in again, pull after the beep and initialization, let it beep to 4 times and throttle stick then to high, allow for the 4 beeps then dis connect power again and pull jumper. You are now recailibrated and in governoro heli mode, that is all.

Note It simply is good practice to recalibrate the modes on the Jazz when using a different or new motor. If you are running same motor this only ever needs to be done once. I have had the Jazz hang up on it's timing and once recalibrated it is fine, this only ever happened to me when trying a new or different motor, this is why I mention it as a peice of mind thing. Cheers

Hope that answers your Qs' so far.
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Old 01-14-2007, 02:13 PM   #9
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Hey Shawn,
That makes more sense now.

So even using the 430L I should re-map my throttle curves to a max of 75%, is that correct?

Right now I have them going to 100% and my idle 2 is 100% flat.

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 01-14-2007, 04:56 PM   #10
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Eric,

What you want to obtain is the headspeed you desire. Depending on what your motor, pinion, lipo, esc is that % may be 60%, 75%, or even 100%. The ticket to best performace is 75%, and if you do not have the headspeed you wish to have you would then want to look at your gearing, maybe go one pinion up. However do note on these small t-rexes and the new lipos, fall-off of power is very hard to see or feel even at 100%. If you are getting your desired headspeed at 100% and you do not get any power fade off till at least 85% of your flight then you should be just fine where you are at. My comments and thoughts are directed primarily at running governor mode on electrics, which is my preference by far as the trasitions through modes and maneuvers are much smoother imho.
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:44 PM   #11
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Will it work on a 4S setup?
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Old 01-14-2007, 10:29 PM   #12
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According to Vinnie of JGF a 10 tooth would be the Range for 4S, however to my full understanding this motor was designed to put out the power on 3S. With todays packs available there should be no issue producing big power with a motor like this that is rated to 400 watts. I will visit 4S at a later date myself. My goal originally in looking at this motor was to lose some weight and gain some flight time. On 4S I was running 1800 mah packs and at over 180G, with the new pack at 180 or less in weight and the motor being 50 grams lighter than my 4S NEU setup this should be a big improvement in both power to weight and in flight times as well as I will gain 350 more mah as well. [/quote]
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Old 01-14-2007, 10:42 PM   #13
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I test-flew my JGF 500TH on a 13-tooth pinion tonight. At 85%, it must be cranking well above 3000RPM in a hover (no data logger on this one, just "by ear" checking it out after a rebuild). Unfortunately, I didn't have long to play with it tonight, as I was still using the plastic tail without a slowdown gear, and it exploded 3 minutes into the flight. Previously I had been running 2400-2600 RPM on my 430L with 11-tooth pinion. That will teach me to try to fly without first checking my head speed with a tach.

The JGF 500TH, even though its rated KV is 3381, seems to run as fast or faster than the Align 430L 3550Kv. I am going to go back down to the 11-tooth pinion, buy a new tail rotor assembly, and see how she performs tomorrow.

Other than the tail explosion ruining my test flight, I was surprised at the power the motor had. It is much, much quieter than a 430L, and I didn't realize how fast the motor was humming until I had the heli near eye-level and heard how quickly the blades were whizzing.

I'll be posting some in-depth analysis as soon as the weather breaks freezing here in UT. At the moment, it's 2 degrees outside my window, which is a bit cold even for this cold-weather heli freak
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Old 01-15-2007, 12:40 AM   #14
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I have a JGF 500TH coming as well. I will post my newbiew review too. Newbie review for the newbie. If Bob is willing, I can have him have a wing at it.
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812
On 4S I was running 1800 mah packs and at over 180G, with the new pack at 180 or less in weight and the motor being 50 grams lighter than my 4S NEU setup this should be a big improvement in both power to weight and in flight times as well as I will gain 350 more mah as well.
Correct me if I am wrong, but will not an 4S setup draw less AMP to produce the same power as the same setup with 3S? Which means that your 350 more mAh on your 3S setup may not give you any more run time than the 4S setup.

Now you are changing the motor also which makes all these assumptions useless, but anyway. The thing is that I am thinking about going 4S myself with my medusa motor. And I have some difficulties in guessing what amount of mAh I would need on the batteries.
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:47 AM   #16
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In some cases yes that is true. Allot depends on the efficiency of the motor of course. In the end a big part of it is power to weight ratio and how it feels in flight. And to those who do not own a Jazz 40-6-18 they would need to upgrade their esc to run 4S....And yes at this point allot of it is assumption correct, however I do know that several freinds running 450F are getting a full minute and a half more than me on 4S with a NEU 1107-2Y, I am running FP4S 1800s and TP2100 prolites, they are running the first gen 2150 FP 3S packs. The performance they are seeing and that I see from the 450F is amazing. Their setups feel very nimble and light in comparison, which is really why I decided to try this 500th since it is the latest and greatest of the JGF lineup. As I have mentioned I will certainly provide graphs and data to backup the report and final findings. Personally I want to get away from 4S as the batteries do not fit as well and in general the setup associated with 4S is heavier. By doing this changeup I will lose over 50 grams on the heli, and on a machine 700-800 grams that is a nice easy diet.

BTW.... I have had several Medusa motors on 3 and 4S they are good motors no doubt but run much, much hotter than I am comfortable with.

In the end I want the same or very close to power and feel I had with the 4S NEU, if I am close than this will be my route here on out. I have a very good feel on my prior setup and will be able to give an honest answer on this later on.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:52 AM   #17
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Great thread, thanks.

Aside: Are those homemade alu rails on your bottom plate ? What's the motivation for them (btw I have broken 2 stock plastic bottom plates in my last 2 crashes so I am wondering if some strengthening is on order) ?
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Old 01-15-2007, 11:06 AM   #18
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Shawn - Great thread. The photos are a great touch and very informative.

Regarding 4S on the 500TH. I think the pinion would need to be smaller than 10T to run 4S within a sane RPM range. Dropping the throttle too low would reduce the efficiency. The 500SH http://justgofly.com/tech500SH.htm is a 500TH with one extra wind that drops the Kv to 2920 and on a 12T gives 3200 head speed, full pitch, 27amps on 4S and the motor stays cool. We have not tested the 500TH on 4S 10T, but have 10T pinions on order. I suspect that 9T would be ideal and would then require a 2.3mm axle.

Do we need a 2.3mm axle ? I am resistant to this, since the 500SH or 450TH would fit this slot running 4S. The smaller axle would more easily break so I would prefer the 3.17mm option. But your feedback drives us, so let me know. Our goal on the 500TH was to give you the 3000+ RPM on 3S, (lighter weight) and within the power needs of a 2000 mah, 18C or higher pack.

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Old 01-15-2007, 07:47 PM   #19
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I have now flown my 500TH equipped 450SE about 10 times. I love this motor and I also really liked the 450TH it replaced.

We had some warmer weather today (50's) with sun and no wind. I'm using TP 2200 Extreme batteries and a 14T pinion. My throttle curve in idle up is set at 100-90-80-90-100.

My head speed at neutral pitch is 3000 using 325 Pro wood blades.

This motor really maintains that power through maneuvers. At the end of a 4.5-5 minute mild 3D flight the head speed is still in the 2700-2800 rpm range. Sustained forward flips and Tic-tocs (the current limits of my 3D skill) are easy with little to no significant bogging. At 5 minutes, the battery starts going down fast.

At full positive pitch (11-12 degrees) and full rpm it draws 35 amps peak. It goes up like a rocket, even at the end of the battery.

There is a price though, my flight time was cut by 30 seconds compared to the 450TH but I don't think that is too bad. The additional power is a significant improvement.

Interestingly I did have a 15T pinion on for a few flights which did not increase the head speed at the same throttle curves, it just upped the current draw to 40+ amps so I figure it was just overloaded.

Overall, I am very pleased. A flying buddy has the same setup and was equally impressed.

Chris
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:50 PM   #20
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Right now, I think the 500TH on 11 or 12 teeth is good for sport flying. 13 teeth and higher is about 50 miles past crazy, where only those with carbon blades, all-metal upgrades, 25C 2070 batteries, and 4-minute flight times will venture.

Should have my replacement tail tomorrow and I can provide some head speed figures on my bench.
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