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450 PRO Class Electric Helicopters 450 PRO Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 02-01-2011, 11:25 AM   #1
Finless
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Default FBL Servo ball spacing and other questions?

OK doing my conversion to FBL now. I am using the mini V-Bar with the Align FBL head. This will be my first FBL setup

So before I put all the servo back in, any others out there with this setup and did you have to change the ball spacing on the cyclic servos?

Thanks,
Bob
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:55 AM   #2
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Bob, I can't say for sure with the VBar ..but with the Micro beast you need to move one hole in to get the proper geometry if your using the 410 servo's..should be almost the same for Vbar
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:41 PM   #3
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One hole in from flybar setup is correct (I had this setup on my first 450 Pro last year).
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:41 PM   #4
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Bob, no I left my servo ball spacing the same but I did follow Aligns FBL head set up for the lengths. As for the cyclic linkages go, I ended up leaving them the same length as the FB version but I believe Align calls for them to be a bit longer???

She flys great FBL, more aggressive and has a much crisper response you'll be pretty impressed.

hey what servos are you using?
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:45 PM   #5
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I am using 5065MGs. The stock FB ball spacing is 13mm on the Pro with 410's.

ChrisH when you said one hole in, I assume on the 410 arms?

Bob
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:29 PM   #6
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that's what i'm using and i didnt need to move them, you should be fine.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless View Post
ChrisH when you said one hole in, I assume on the 410 arms?

Bob
Yes I am. When I get home later tonight I can measure them for you, however 11.5mm rings a bell...
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:10 PM   #8
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Cool thanks Chris....

Bob
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:20 PM   #9
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Bob,
The 2 sided servo arms or the Hitec's measure the same as the align 410's per side, same to same with the hole spacings.
So if you used the outer hole from your build video just move in one.

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Old 02-01-2011, 06:35 PM   #10
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Cool thanks for the help..... Wanted to get the ball spacing right as taking off the servo arms on the pro is a beoch

OK another question. I notice some guys set for leading edge blade grip control and other use trailing. Which you guys prefer?

Next question, how much cyclic pitch you guys run? I usually always maxed mine out when I was FB and could bind when at full pitch in a corner with cyclic. I never measured it but it was probably about 9.

Bob
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:55 PM   #11
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Cool thanks for the help..... Wanted to get the ball spacing right as taking off the servo arms on the pro is a beoch
Well, you got the answer ... one hole in ... but the measurements on the DS410M and stock "DS4" servo arm are:

(FBL) spline to inside hole: 12.5mm
(FB) spline to outside hole: 15mm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless
The stock FB ball spacing is 13mm on the Pro with 410's.
So, this does not sound right ... ? Is this from the manual or something?

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Originally Posted by Finless View Post
OK another question. I notice some guys set for leading edge blade grip control and other use trailing. Which you guys prefer?
In flight, LE or TE will not make one bit of difference. However, LE makes it easy to set up the swash (positive collective = up, negative = down). Most setups run leading edge for this reason.

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Next question, how much cyclic pitch you guys run? I usually always maxed mine out when I was FB and could bind when at full pitch in a corner with cyclic. I never measured it but it was probably about 9.

Bob
Depends on the FBL controller, some like more than others. Since you're running the Mini V, go through the on-screen instructions to set up cyclic pitch (using Vstabi 5.0 it should be approx 8-9˚ if I recall correctly). Note that you can't actually check how much cyclic you are using in flight, you're just setting the max cyclic allowable for the unit.
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:57 PM   #12
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Most FBL heads are leading edge control, if that is any help.
You can adjust the cyclic pitch range through the software, can say 100% certain but I believe 6 is the normal for the control loop to function at its optimum.

Mr Mel. over on the Mikado V-Bar forum could answer that for you
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:24 PM   #13
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I'll be going FBL on my Pro as well.... Leading edge is better for FBL because you do not want flapping in the head...otherwise it may tend to 'wag' or overshoot. A trailing edge blade is used in flybarred heads because you want this flapping...it also helps with the heli rolling in FF... but a FBL unit takes care of all that sort of thing.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:37 PM   #14
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I'll be going FBL on my Pro as well.... Leading edge is better for FBL because you do not want flapping in the head...otherwise it may tend to 'wag' or overshoot. A trailing edge blade is used in flybarred heads because you want this flapping...it also helps with the heli rolling in FF... but a FBL unit takes care of all that sort of thing.
Sorry but care to explain? I've flown my T500 V-Bar on LE and TE with no apparent differences. The only thing that's different is swash movement.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisH View Post
Depends on the FBL controller, some like more than others. Since you're running the Mini V, go through the on-screen instructions to set up cyclic pitch (using Vstabi 5.0 it should be approx 8-9˚ if I recall correctly). Note that you can't actually check how much cyclic you are using in flight, you're just setting the max cyclic allowable for the unit.
Well I am sure a fully deflected swash will be way over 9. The on screen instructions say 8 so if you wanted more I am sure you can dial that in or will that screw things up? Do they want 8 period and then you get more or less by using dual rates in the radio?

I do realize you cant measure how much cyclic your using in flight! That would be magical software if you could.

Also I have watched MR. Mel's videos and understand the basics. I am now just looking for the tweaks and a little more detail for the Pro like the best ball spacing. I got that now thanks to you folks

So one bummer I see is you cant adjust rudder gyro gain from the radio? I see why guys always have a laptop with them now...

Bob
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless View Post
Well I am sure a fully deflected swash will be way over 9. The on screen instructions say 8 so if you wanted more I am sure you can dial that in or will that screw things up? Do they want 8 period and then you get more or less by using dual rates in the radio?
8 is a basis I believe. You can go to 9 if you can with no binding, but try not to go further than that.

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I do realize you cant measure how much cyclic your using in flight! That would be magical software if you could.

Also I have watched MR. Mel's videos and understand the basics. I am now just looking for the tweaks and a little more detail for the Pro like the best ball spacing. I got that now thanks to you folks

So one bummer I see is you cant adjust rudder gyro gain from the radio? I see why guys always have a laptop with them now...

Bob
Yes you can adjust gyro gain from the radio. It's in a Vbar 101 video but I don't recall which one right now ... try searching for it, I am running out of the house right now.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:40 PM   #17
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hey bob, i adjust my gyro gain on the TX in the gyro menu. i'm not fully understanding what you mean by you cant adjust it this way? I set mine up with 8 degrees on the s/w but then later went back with my pitch gauge and TX and put it at 10.

back to your rudder gyro gain... at the main screen of the vbar program you will use the mouse cursor to adjut the gyro for the aile/elv on the left of the screen and then use the TX to adjust the gyro on the rudder. you will have to make a big adjustments before you see it move but just watch the slider on the right of the screen and you will see some movement.

one thing i had issues with after set up was getting the esc to engage, if you encounter this you will need to adjust your throttle end points to match your cyclic channels
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:41 PM   #18
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^^^ the throttle issue applies if you are using sat rx... not sure if it happens if you use a standard rx
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:44 PM   #19
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Bob,
Assuming your running 5.0 Pro..

No option is "better" than the other, it's just a preference, if you don't want to bring the computer or have a control panel, then it's perhaps best to setup Gyro in Radio to be "Aux" which you can do.

In the software you have to set "Aux->Gyro Gain" in the bank switching dropdown, and then you need to make note of which % in radio is what % in vbar.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:31 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisH View Post
Sorry but care to explain? I've flown my T500 V-Bar on LE and TE with no apparent differences. The only thing that's different is swash movement.
Actually I should clarify one point. If the grip's ball/link is placed laterally to the midpoint on the feathering shaft then you want leading edge. In trailing edge imagine that you give some cyclic. The blade goes up along with the grips ball link. The ball link having gone up then induces even more lift until the damper is completely compressed. But if you have a head where the grip's ball/link is dead center this won't happen and then it doesn't matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless View Post
Well I am sure a fully deflected swash will be way over 9. The on screen instructions say 8 so if you wanted more I am sure you can dial that in or will that screw things up? Do they want 8 period and then you get more or less by using dual rates in the radio?

I do realize you cant measure how much cyclic your using in flight! That would be magical software if you could.

Also I have watched MR. Mel's videos and understand the basics. I am now just looking for the tweaks and a little more detail for the Pro like the best ball spacing. I got that now thanks to you folks

So one bummer I see is you cant adjust rudder gyro gain from the radio? I see why guys always have a laptop with them now...

Bob
I believe the idea of setting the blade to 8 degrees is for the unit to be able to figure out the head geometry. In flight the unit will go over if it has to. The microbeast has this procedure as well.
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