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JLog - The JIVE logging stamp JLog - The JIVE logging stamp - Official English Support Forum


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Old 03-20-2011, 11:13 AM   #1
dl7uae
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Default Hi everybody! (Introduction to this board)

JLog2 - the 2nd generation JLog - have been released now and Will was so kind to offer us a support forum within HF for it.

I am Tom, designer of the logger and also responsible for any kind of interactive support if necessary. It is already 55 springs ago that I saw the light of the world for the 1st time, - so be nice to me, please. Some people are wondering about my nick, it's my callsign, I am a HAM. (If you work EME (Earth-Moon-Earth, moon bouncing) you can meet me on moon.)

In a short: What is "JLog"? JLog is a special data logger processing the diagnostic data stream of a Kontronik ESC "JIVE", any kind of model and firmware release, which results in different types of log files on a microSD, mainly OpenFormat for evaluation by LogView.
My "slogan" is: "JLog: Uses the JIVE as sensor system, makes it transparent and telemetry capable." You know, everyone needs today to have a slogan..

For any kind of common questions please refer to http://j-log.net. Lets hope that we will not have too much need for interactive support here in case of special problems.

Last friday the logger appeared for the first time in the web shop of its manufacturer SM-Modellbau but before already (about a week ago) in the shop of Lindinger. No idea if there are or will be further resellers of SM.

I'm still busy in translating the manual of the logger - and some remaining parts of j-log.net.

Tom


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Old 03-21-2011, 10:20 AM   #2
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Default U.S. Distribution?

Anyone in the U.S. going to distribute this product?
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:33 AM   #3
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Not yet as far as I know.

(But I must make it clear that I am NOT responsible for any commercial question or issues of processing, that's simply not my beer. My job was/is design and support, that's it.)

Tom
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:06 PM   #4
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About to order one of these, but as I am not German speaking, what is required as extras to make the Jlog work?

On the SM site there are various cables and sensors that are listed as JLog accessories, so what is needed to log rpm, temp, etc on a 120HV fitted to a TDR?
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:02 AM   #5
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No, everything you need to log a JIVE is included, servo patch cord, mSD card, mSD to SD adapter, mSD USB reader.

Listed options are for JLog-own optional sensors (temperature, RPM), - not needed for logging of a JIVE, that's a goodie on top, - and the cable to optionally connect to telemetry (JETI, Multiplex M-Link). Another option (not listed) w'd be a JETIbox ("classic" or mini) to be used for an alternative way to configure JLog "in the field" (without a PC, even if you do not have JETI R/C, but needs the telemetry cable too) or for live-viewing (JLog's live stream) of data (also done with LogView via an USB interface). - Well, this w'd be a last option, the USB interface for live data viewing by LogView (rare application).

(Log data: Without JLog-own sensors we already get both temps out of the JIVE, output stage and BEC, and RPM also, motor and rotor, calculated from gear reduction ratio by JLog. Only log items that start with "EXT" in the name depend on optional sensors, are goodies, everything else comes out of the JIVE.)

Measurement readings and signals:
U-BEC [V] BEC output voltage……………..,,…………..I-BEC [A] BEC output current
U-BAT [V] main battery voltage………………,…………I-Motor [A] motor current
I-Motor/Int [A] motor current (integrated)…….,……….Throttle [%] throttle impulse length as seen by the JIVE
PWM-Motor [%] ESC “opening”……………..,…………RPM-Uni [1/min] rotor or propeller RPM
RPM-Motor [1/min] motor’s RPM………….,…………..Capacity [mAh] cumulative mAh
Temp-PA [°C] temperature of the PA…………………..Temp-BEC [°C] temperature of the BEC
Power [W] motor input power…………………………..Power/Int [W] motor input power (integrated)
IbecMax [A] peak BEC current………………………….ImotMax [A] peak motor current
ALARM: Capacity [S] alarm on cumulative mAh……..ALARM: Ubat [S] alarm on main battery voltage
ALARM: TempPA [S] alarm on PA’s temperature……ALARM: UbecDrop [S] alarm on drop of BEC voltage
ALARM: EXT: T1 [S] alarm on ext. temperature 1…….ALARM: EXT: T2 [S] alarm on ext. temperature 2
ALARM: EXT: T3 [S] alarm on ext. temperature 3…….ALARM: EXT: T4 [S] alarm on ext. temperature 4
ALARM: EXT: T5 [S] alarm on ext. temperature 5…….EXT: Temp1 [°C] external temperature 1
EXT: Temp2 [°C] external temperature 2………………EXT: Temp3 [°C] external temperature 3
EXT: Temp4 [°C] external temperature 4………………EXT: Temp5 [°C] external temperature 5
EXT: RPM [1/min] external RPM

Alarm lines do need a servo cable only to lead them into any kind of a alarm device.

Look here: http://62.153.249.80/jlog/jlog2-en

Tom
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:08 AM   #6
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Again on the sensors:

I understand now that it may be confusing because all other loggers in the market depend on having their (own) sensors.

JLog does not need any sensor, the sensors are those in the JIVE. The basic and main function of JLog is to analyze and process a data stream from the JIVE, so all sensors are virtual to JLog. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to have a stamp-sized logger, - and this is definitely all we need.

Optional "true sensors" were implemented by me on base of wishes by users. There was a wish to measure temperatures of other objects in the model, nothing to do with the JIVE, the temperature of a gear for example. Others like to gauge the rotor speed during an AR, that's why the optional RPM sensor came in.

Telemetry on the other hand is an alternative option to view the live data stream JLog can output also. Another guy is developing own telemetry equipment and loves the live stream type 1, OpenFormat, normally to be grabbed via an USB interface -> for LogView on the bench - to process it by his own device. He intends to use JLog even standalone, without a JIVE. JLog2 commonly is based on time stamps in the JIVE's diagnostic protocol, but can switch over to an own time base in case there is no data from a JIVE. So those folks use JLog exclusively with JLog-own sensors. Live is colored and I try to satisfy them all.

Tom

-------------------
All you need is SM's item #2800, - #2556 in addition for telemetry connection to JETI or Multiplex M-Link or a JETIbox #JDBOXMINI directly connected to the logger (this in no telemetry so far of course ). All other items are optional sensors (temperatures or/and RPM external to the JIVE, see above) or spares.

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Old 03-25-2011, 09:50 AM   #7
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Hi Tom,
What a great device, I want one. Are there plans to market them in the US?

Ben
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:20 AM   #8
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Hi Ben,

see above. Well, principally there are plans.., I thought of Readyheli for example. But still nothing done in this direction.

Tom
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:29 PM   #9
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That is an impressive amount of data output from the Jive. I was not expecting the Jive to monitor BEC amperage and temp. Kontronik sure built a lot of capability into the Jive series.

I see the Jlog can output data to the Multiplex TX telemetry. Any plans to possibly make the JLog telemetry output compatible with Spektrum telemetry and the PowerBox telemetry protocol? That would allow users of the DX8 (and future DX10) to have all the critical in-flight telemetry displayed right on the TX (the PowerBox telemetry screens of the DX8 allow for display of mAh consumed, etc.)
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:05 PM   #10
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Hi!

Quote:
That is an impressive amount of data output from the Jive.
You w'd be surprised to hear how many data items the diagnostic protocol inserts, much more than one hundred.
But the items in the log are not directly "data output from the JIVE". It is output from JLog, from its data processing and the state machine it consists.

Quote:
Any plans to possibly make the JLog telemetry output compatible with Spektrum telemetry
That depends not on JLog and me.. At the moment there is no chance to deal with Spektrum's telemetry in being a foreign sensor, especially not if you are a "multi.-sensor" with a huge number of (virtual) sensors (23 items/values).

I already replied on that theme here.., but sorry, still in German only. Try the translator please, but I fear even the Google translations are not the best..

As soon as Spektrum will fill the "Xbus" connector of the TM1000 with life (Sensor bus or any kind of common sensor interface?) we will know if top or flop with Spektrum's telemetry in the end.

I'm anyway currently playing with "JLog - totally wireless", but no idea if this will become a future roadmap to the logger or keep existing in my lab only.

Tom

Oops, I forgot to reply on the PowerBox question: There is no "PowerBox protocol" as I can see, a PowerBox can act as a sensor to Spektrum, current and/or voltage, I'd guess.

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Old 03-26-2011, 01:34 AM   #11
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The reason I asked about the Powerbox telemetry is the latest firmware for the DX8 (and the DX10 once it's released) have a specific Powerbox display menu which will display things us E-heli guys really care about (that would be mAh consumed.)

There are several telemetry menu display options on the DX8's powerbox menu that aren't shown on the standard telemetry display menu, the most important in my opinion being mAh consumed. Monitoring and displaying mAh consumed is far more useful than displaying instantaneous pack voltage (which obviously changes under load and isn't a good indicator of total pack capacity used.) If the JLog would be able to send user-specified telemetry data to a Spektrum TM-1000 telemetry module formatted in the same way as the Powerbox then it should be possible to set the DX8/DX10 to "Powerbox telemetry display" so that mAh consumed as calculated by the JLog can then be sent to the TX where it can be monitored and alarmed right on the transmitter.

I know it probably won't be a trivial task to integrate the JLog output to a Spektrum telemetry module and then feed that data to the Powerbox DX8/DX10 menus... but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Since both my helis have Jives in them the JLog is much more useful to me than an Eagletree as it can capture data the Eagletree cannot (namely BEC statistics.) I might have to pick one up as I'm extremely interested in knowing the average and peak BEC loads of the Jive in my Logo 600SE.
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:56 AM   #12
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Well.., this was a classical misunderstanding. I thought you are speaking of PowerBox Systems.

To be honest, the "powerbox display" is new to me, looks like I should a bit investigate in it.

On the other hand I am quite sure that Spektrum still provides no ability to feed data of foreign sensors into the system. The only way is to act as a "natural sensor" - in a charade so to speak. Means to feed it with a voltage or a pulse sequence to emulate U, I, RPM etc.

Speaking about "mAh": No good chance to give a Spektrum system the possibility to calculate it in a right manner by providing it with a value for "current, and "time" being up to the calculator itself. The reason is that JLog has to do this on base of a "model", look here. Also not yet translated.. One of the reasons is that the calculation by JLog, amongst other things, is based on time stamps the JIVE protocol delivers, - and those stamps do not come equidistant.

Generally a "multi-sensor" like JLog has two problems with a telemetry system: 1) The interface to feed in. But 2) also the display of items, - addressing (selection/naming), value range and decimal point, measurement unit. Now many of the telemetry systems already in the market are of an old-fashion design, - several proprietary sensor interfaces, hard-coded interface and appearance of the display, like currently with Spektrum and also with Hitec and others. Multiplex gave it a try to set up an interface/display common to all by their "Multiplex Sensor Bus". JETI goes a different way by their terminal bus, - each sensor provides the terminal (JETIbox) with the full display by themselfs. Another hope is HOTT from Graupner.

Even if JLog w'd adapt themselfs by any means, e.g. "emulation" (see above), a user wouldn't accept that because of the resulting strange appearance in the display of such a transmitter.

It keeps to be difficult/expensive...

Tom

P.S. Hey, guess what my R/C system is.. Yes, Spektrum.

.
.
.
Oops, it seems that in fact it HAS to do with PowerBox Systems! http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/P...ProdId=PBS4810

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Old 03-27-2011, 06:45 PM   #13
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Finally...

I overcame my inner temptation: The English manual is up (preliminary version).

---

Wrote it down like "spaghetti code", and after that I did not have the heart to read it again for corrections. So have mercy, please.

And, btw, English punctuation is random for me.
Well, I'm not a "native speaker", - I am a Kraut.

So what? The manual is there to help with the usage of the logger - and to provide with insight on it before purchase.

---
Btw: Unthinkable (for me), but probably there will be changes soon. Firmware add-ons are underway... Ohh, I love Addendums.

Tom
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:36 AM   #14
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Great stuff, mine is stuck in the mail somewhere. Can't wait for it to arrive

Couple of questions about the DIY alarm devices:
-Is external power really necessary even for the simple LED alarm (not luxeon) or can we drive it from the BEC ?
-Luxeon alarm voltage (+Ualarm) shows as 5-8,4V but as far as I know they run on 3-3,5V. Do we need special luxeon leds ?
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
-Is external power really necessary even for the simple LED alarm (not luxeon) or can we drive it from the BEC ?
From the BEC, okay, but not from the diagnostic connector. There're two PTCs behind, intended to limit the current to 100mA at max. In drawing continously "high" current I w'd fear that this could damage a PTC over the time.

Overall, one should be careful and preferably NOT draw the current for an alarm device out of this connector. And to avoid to damage the JIVE by mistake with the circuitry, I'd advice to decouple everything also by an opto coupler. The JIVE is encapsulated, a damage would be irrevocable.

Quote:
-Luxeon alarm voltage (+Ualarm) shows as 5-8,4V but as far as I know they run on 3-3,5V. Do we need special luxeon leds ?
Well, the flasher (555) drives the LED or Luxeon with a very short pulse only. We operate them with overcurrent. Continous current that high w'd kill the LED or Luxeon, but not the very short pulses, - flashes in the meaning of the word, glaring.

There are also other possibilities for alarm devices, wireless by XBees for example. Next I will expand the D.I.Y. section of j-log.net by an article about that.

Tom

D.I.Y. chapter: Alerting wireless and JLog-own telemetry with XBee here, for the 1st in German only, sorry. Well, meanwhile is there a rather huge "slippage" concerning EN translations of pages on j-log.net. I know.. Mercy, please.

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Old 04-02-2011, 03:25 PM   #16
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Great product!!
Question, just so I get it right before ordering.
I can set the "mah used" value I want and connect an alarm to it?
Or?

My Logo 600SE has incredible difference in mah consumption depending of HS, from 6 min to 15, hard to set the timer.
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Old 04-02-2011, 05:47 PM   #17
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Hi!

Quote:
I can set the "mah used" value I want and connect an alarm to it?
Or?
You can.

Alarms:
- drop below a battery voltage level
- reached/exceeded limit of cumulative mAh
- exceeding a temperature limit of the PA
- BEC voltage drop (possible blackout of the BEC)
- below or above a temperature limit: up to 5 JLog-own temperature sensors
Grand total: 9

Tom
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:43 PM   #18
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Hi!

Over the weekend I finished the version 3.2 of JLog2, and just the compatible new configurator JLC, version 3.4.
A few more tests and it will appear in the download area.

What is new?

- Support of the terminal "Unidisplay" from SM-Modellbau, 8x16 and 8x12 characters, much smaller than the JETIboxes (2x16 chars).

There is no public available telemetry system for this terminal, it can be used only in directly connecting it to the "COM" interface of the logger (for live data viewing und configuration purposes w/o a PC (JLC) "in the field"). Because this terminal - in contrast to JETI - doesn't use nine data bits, it can be used with 2x XBee for D.I.Y. telemetry. This is what I am doing because I'm a handicapped Spektrum user.

- The main alarm line can now not only be of a "switch"ed type ("static" switching ON/OFF, low-active) than also be pulsed, - "interval" for an audible alarm device (piezo buzzer or something like that), "flash" for LEDs or a Luxeon, "Morse" (like with JETI). With "Morse" we gain the advantage that we can distinguish alarms accoustically. (The possible 2nd alarm line for mAh alarms remains of "switching" type anyway/additionally.)

The advantage is, that one, in building an alarm device by himself, do not have to build an interval circuit, all he needs is a driver stage for the alarm unit, buzzer, LED, Luxeon etc. A small piezo buzzer can be directly connected to the logger.
In using XBee for a homebrew telemetry connection, I transfer the alarm lines also over the air. This is done by the so-called "line passing" with XBee 802.15.4. Quite easy. Simply a piezo buzzer connected at the other end, that's it. The (bi-directional) data transfer with the terminal "Unidisplay" runs via the common asynchronous serial interfaces of the XBees, see above and here.

So I have to admit that this upgrade was not entirely unselfish.

Tom
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:34 PM   #19
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Hi Tom, my unit arrived.
I am too lazy to install it (i need to solve some vibration problems first), but it is looking very nice.
Next step would be some alarm transport to my DX7 like your XBee solution.
I do not expect you will translate that web page to English, so i will try Google Translate.

I also do not know yet if my next radio will be Jeti, JR DMSS, Spektrum DX8...
I like Jeti, but their heli satellite receiver does not have solution for static electricity and it seems they burn sometimes.
Anyway great work, my friend will try Jeti telemetry in a week or so.
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Old 04-05-2011, 04:02 PM   #20
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I will push the firmware 3.2 online (together with JLC 3.4, the configurator), this night or tomorrow. Tested/modified the whole day.

So you will have better support for an own wireless solution, best with "Unidisplay" and via XBee. (You'll need good eyes or glasses with Unidisplay, a real tiny device, but nice.)

Well, hey, it's only a question of time... Of course I will translate everything into English. The only question is: When?

Tom
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