Little problem ...Tdr very slow...

[RRRappy50]

Hi guys, today I finally try my new Tdr.
My configuration:
3X Bls 255 Hv @ 8,4 V
Bls 251 @ 5,2V with Spektrum Vr 5203 step down
Futaba 8ch Fasst Hv series
Blue Vstabi with 5,1 Pro
Wr hercules super bec @ 8,4V
Kontronik 120 Hv
Sorpion 4525 520 Kv LE
Edge 693 Fb 105 on tail.
13 T Pinion
14 * pitch, 9* ciclic.

Today I fly with TP 3800 45 C 12 S, flat curve at 90% but dont is responsive how I want...

Vbar with 120% agility, in medium mode.

I will have any issue if I will use the 15T pinion for I have the RPM around at 2100?

I want this heli much more aggressive for 3D flight...

Thanks for reply,
Regards.

[jointer]

That will be difficult.
For reasons unknown to me, the TDR have different flying characteristics then common helicopters, lets say Align.
It is great for some pilots (most people here love it), but sometimes it will not fit.
You have almost the right setup for hard 3D.
You want 14T pinion for 3D, with Pyro, even the 14T is not enough and according to JLog i hit 100% PWM during basic 3D moves like tighter/harder tictoc.
But not boggable like at 14T.

It should be better with Scorp, but i also noticed my batteries can drop their voltage significantly (40-41V in load).
They are a bit older, but in good condition, so the power demanding Scorp will make it even worse.

You should target for about 60% Jive throttle opening and 1850-1900 RPM (Jive mode 4 or 11).
You need quite a headroom for the governor by my experience (Pyro only, my Scorp is not used yet).
That IS definetly enough for hard 3D.

With the direct swash control, i think the best servos available is needed, you choosen well, but notice this servos have the same specs at 6V like BLS451/253.
I am not saying they are the same.

For the settings - you want to have 15 degrees pitch (in my case 100 in Collective), but check for binding.
Some use 100 in Cyclic, to have more agility.
In 5.1, 8 degrees of recommended travel is definetly under 80 (which i have).

You want Agility at 100, but check Optimizer results.
I think i have 60 there, set manually and it is good for me.

Most of the success is Vbar settings, which might be different then on common helicopters.
After you will tweak that, you can try to increase the RPM to 2000-2100 for even more sharpness.
I did not tried, do not need it, but i think this headspeed is common for Align T700, which can be very sharp.

I hope it helped.

[RRRappy50]

Thanks for reply
Now I see the "smack test tdr" by Timo on youtube...

I want the copy for me..

This is right, is very right for my preferences!!!

15 T will be better?

[jointer]

I think 14T will be optimal.
But if you want to fly only hard 3D at high RPM, 15T should work.
You may not be able to run low RPMs for slow flight.

[RRRappy50]

Originally Posted by jointer

I think 14T will be optimal.
But if you want to fly only hard 3D at high RPM, 15T should work.
You may not be able to run low RPMs for slow flight.

I do not like the slow flight, I preferr the aggressive flight...

Thanks again for reply, I will try in this week a new 15 T ....I hope it will be better for me.
I like this helicopter too, and I want to fly it the way I like!!

Regads.

[jointer]

I have no problem with that, but please provide some videos after you are finished tuning it.
15T might be the best pinion for your situation, just be careful with power demands, even i was able to create spike of almost 180A with the Pyro.

[helicraze]

Hi, i went through the same thing. Jointer is right 14T pinion with that motor and 1850RPM is plenty.

I adjusted in setup to get about 10-12deg pitch of cyclic (instead of 8) and also manually adjusted the optimizer for cyclic to 54 and 54.

Blades I hated the FBL blades, could not get the response i want, put normal radix 710MM back on. The edge are narrower chord so that and being 690MM might explain it.

My agility is only 98 but my slider for style is at 120 and main rotor gain 96.

I spoke with timow he took off the paddle simulation as he did not like it, the heli still moves a lot without it.

Check out my file, its with BLS451/251 standard components settings (RPM 1850, 14deg).

[RRRappy50]

Originally Posted by jointer

I have no problem with that, but please provide some videos after you are finished tuning it.
15T might be the best pinion for your situation, just be careful with power demands, even i was able to create spike of almost 180A with the Pyro.

180A with the Pyro.... and with my motor whats happen???

Originally Posted by helicraze

Hi, i went through the same thing. Jointer is right 14T pinion with that motor and 1850RPM is plenty.

I adjusted in setup to get about 10-12deg pitch of cyclic (instead of 8) and also manually adjusted the optimizer for cyclic to 54 and 54.

Blades I hated the FBL blades, could not get the response i want, put normal radix 710MM back on. The edge are narrower chord so that and being 690MM might explain it.

My agility is only 98 but my slider for style is at 120 and main rotor gain 96.

I spoke with timow he took off the paddle simulation as he did not like it, the heli still moves a lot without it.

Check out my file, its with BLS451/251 standard components settings (RPM 1850, 14deg).

Hi, I have at my home Radix 690 not fbl....I will try with it, and I want change my set up with your suggestion

I will find the solution...

A little question... In the video on youtube with Timo ( smack test tdr ) how many are the rpm?????Only 1850?

A big question: I will have mechanical issues with 2000/2100 rpm or this amazing jewel resist without any problem?
Has anyone tried it?
Result?

Thanks again, regards.

[helicraze]

Yes only 1850RPM, the TDR can do higher RPM but its not needed as the RPM bogs anyway.

Timo flies always at 1850RPM, its all in the fingers and vbar settings, also lighter packs.

But make sure you get 14T pinion!!!

[Edvard R]

Originally Posted by RRRappy50

180A with the Pyro.... and with my motor whats happen???


Hi, I have at my home Radix 690 not fbl....I will try with it, and I want change my set up with your suggestion

I will find the solution...

A little question... In the video on youtube with Timo ( smack test tdr ) how many are the rpm?????Only 1850?

A big question: I will have mechanical issues with 2000/2100 rpm or this amazing jewel resist without any problem?
Has anyone tried it?
Result?

Thanks again, regards.

You can easily do more than 2100, but the Pyro for sure won't like it. You will need another motor for that.

The TDR is not as aggressive in 3D as say a 700E screaming at 2400 RPM, but then again that is not really what it is made for. It is a completely different flying style - I have a 700E for the bashing and a TDR for the smoooooth stuff.

[ElectricSheep]

@RRRappy50, If you really want a basher, I'll assemble a T-Rex 700E for you, put some KDE upgrades on it -- and we can trade the 700E for what will be my 2nd TDR. Deal?

Just kidding of course...

But seriously, as others have said, put the 14T pinion on (BTW, how did you get the 13T to fit? Did you have to grind off some of the upper bearing block?).

As HC said, you might want to try other blades. The Edge 693s are only 60mm wide. I don't have the specs here, but the Radix 710s are more like 64mm wide. I have some RotorTech 710 Scott Gray 3D blades (haven't tried them yet) -- they're 63mm wide. I have some Spinblades 710mm FBL blades on order and they're a fat 68mm wide (Timo is on the Spinblades team).

Try changes the VBar settings as jointer said.

The combination of the 14T pinion, 710mm blades (also wider, vs. Edge 693mm), and some VBar tweaks should get you closer to what you want. Honestly though, I'm not sure you'll get exactly what you want, as this heli is not designed to smash, bash, and scare children like a 700E. I guess it's more suited to be like a high-speed, wicked smooth, autobahn cruiser (MB S65 AMG?) vs. a super agile rally car that gets thrown around but still asks for more (Mitsubishi Lancer Evo?).

[helicraze]

Ohhh i like the specs on spin blades!

185G and 68MM wide MMmmmm drool, who has flown these and can you get them anywhere else???

[KidHeli]

yeah they look nice, the closest distro to the US i could find is in Canada. i think i will go with the regular radix as my first set and then try some others the more comfortable i get with the heli.

[jointer]

These blades seems to be worth trying - i seek for something lighter, but stable in FFF.

BTW that 180A spike was extremely short, logged with JLog during its testing, in full 15 degree pitch punch when doing side tictoc...

TDR is not wrong choice for hard 3D (very durable and very well built), but you need to setup it right.

[Trivium]

Hello,

I just add my research here, i have talk with kontronik and they said the perfect ratio power / efficiency is with 65% throttle (for Jive 120HV with Pyro 700-52). So if take 65% throttle with 12S lipo and 520KV motor for references i will have :

13T pinion : 1214,4 RPM
14T pinion : 1307,8 RPM
15T pinion : 1401,2 RPM

And if want FFF with 85% RPM i will have :

13T pinion : 1588,1 RPM
14T pinion : 1710,2 RPM
15T pinion : 1832,4 RPM

For 3D only i will very hesistate between 14 and 15T.

[jointer]

It does not fit my experience.
I have 1880RPM with throttle somewhere around 63% (without Jive throttle "calibration") on 14T.
According to JLog, i hit 100% PWM on hard moves and the RPM can drop to 1720-1750 RPM.
Middle speed preset is 40-50%, not sure, it spins 1760RPM and in that case i cannot hit 100% PWM, but the RPM drops anyway about 100-120 down.

[helicraze]

14T unless you want to go over 1900RPM most of the time. Many of us went through all this and 14T is the one

[jointer]

14T is the one for all sorts of flying.
15T could be better for hard 3D with high RPM only.
By my latest experience, as i wrote, voltage sag can be pretty high in high load, which leads to 100% PWM opening in Jive.

Try 15T and try 50-60% Jive throttle in mode 4/11, that would be the best opening for high loads, i estimate the headspeed will be around 2000 RPM.

Also having the shortest possible power wires will make no harm, you might consider soldering the motor wires directly to Jive.

If you want to tune Jive settings and want to have exact numbers about what is happening in Jive, buy JLog2.

[Trivium]

For 230 km/h we need 16T?

[jointer]

I do not know, i am not into that.
But i think in right hands, the TDR can do 200km/h with stock setup.