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Atom 6HV and 6HVU Compass Atom 6HV and 6HVU Model Helicopter Discussion


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Old 06-14-2011, 11:28 PM   #1
jmancobra
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Default Just got a 6HV! couple ?s

lets just say ive been a compass fan since i opened the box on my atom, a complete advocate after i flew it. Anyway, i just sent paypal and got a 6hv that hoipefully will be here this wknd. i purchased a nice used set of 8717s, i couldnt pass this pkg deal up so i now also have a set of 3 unopened savox 1267 HVs. it also came with WR bec. so should i run the HVs and sell the 8717s or vice versa. i read people run the JRs of 2s lipos anyway. Im going to be using a SK720 which is new to me. This came with both the HW70hv esc and a jive 80hv. I know the jive is better. but is it that much better that its worth "some" people are having bad experiences. Is it just the governer that people prefer the better esc's? my sk720 i think has one built in but not sure how easy it is to program. you all are the experts. Id like to have this thing dialed in for the hoosier heli rumble next month. hope to meet some of you guys there too
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:06 AM   #2
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I know the 8717 servos are very very nice. If you want to run HV though I would recommend the Savox servos. I say that just because the 8717 servos are not labeled as a HV servo.
The HW 70HV ESC does a very good job. In saying that, you have a Jive there that you could use. The Jive ESCs are probably the highest quality ESC from what I have heard. The Gov function on the Jive would be much better than the HW (the HW has had a few issues with 'glitching' in Gov mode). It also has the built in BEC that you could run the 8717 servos off of.
I have no personal experience with the SK720 but I would have a look at grounding the tail boom. Static seems to effect most FBL systems.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:22 AM   #3
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so if i use the jive do i not need the wr bec? im not sure what tail servo im going to be running. thats the only thing i need to get still. i have an 8900 on my atom i can use if need be but if i go no reg ill get an hv one. this bec/reg stuff has me a bit confused
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:40 AM   #4
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I would use the WR regardless of your Jive having an internal BEC. Just not worth the failure if it indeed happens to your unit. The WR is absolutely FANTASTIC on my heli! I can maybe get a pick of my wiring harness and you can copy it for yours (If you run Dean connectors). I can come up with other variations if you use other than Deans, but mine is the cleanest setup I've seen yet.

The reason most people use a higher end ESC is for the governor and smoother operation. While I love Mmy HW's to death, they're a bit unrefined still and definitely show their price-range. However, someone said the other day that they updated their ESC's to the HobbyKing/Turnigy firmware and it spools up just as nice as a Kontronik as well as having a smooth governor. I don't use a governor myself. but I have in the past and the Kontroinks are VERY tough to beat, even by today's standards.

I can't comment whatsoever on the 720's capabilities. There are a few people who use them on here, so I would ask them about their setups and what equipment they used.

Back to the tail servo, I 110% recommend the Torq 9188 tail servo for your setup. Whether you choose to do the 8717's or the Savox (I ran my 8717's for nearly 2 years on straight 2S without a hitch), the tail servo will be able to work with whatever voltage you choose on the regulator and still be faster than the 8900G. I have been a VERY long time 8900G fan, but I'm afraid the 9188 has eked it out of the #1 spot in my book. Especially seeing I get to run it on straight 2S which is a huge bonus IMHO.
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:16 AM   #5
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Jmancobra, congratulations on your new heli! The 6HV is a blast. We have similar setups, I have a 6HV FBL with a SK-720 and Power Bus and run JR8917HV cyclics and the BL9188HV that Skunkworx is recommending above, they are awesome. I have the stock HW ESC as well and after updating the firmware (with Turnigy, not HW) it spools up great. Also the SK has now a governor function which I'm using with the HW ESC and it works very well too.

Check out this thread in the Skookum forum, I made a list of all 6HV pilots using the SK-720 and their detailed setups with a few issues and solutions. This will be helpful for you as there are quite a few setups and you can ask specific questions on the SK & 6HV combo there or directly to the pilots. We are all here to help. Good luck with your new heli!

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=309498
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:11 AM   #6
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Castel & skunk. Thanks for your advice. That tail servo sounds like the one to get. While I'm sure the jive is excellent, I think I'd rather have the cash so I don't have to sell the atom. Where/how doni do this turnigy update. I do have a turnigy programming card too btw. I'll proll stay w the HV servos. That seems the direction everything is heading. But JR servos, well they're JR servos
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmancobra View Post
Castel & skunk. Thanks for your advice. That tail servo sounds like the one to get. While I'm sure the jive is excellent, I think I'd rather have the cash so I don't have to sell the atom. Where/how doni do this turnigy update. I do have a turnigy programming card too btw. I'll proll stay w the HV servos. That seems the direction everything is heading. But JR servos, well they're JR servos

I can say +1 on the Outrage 9188hv. I have one and love it, nothing beats running all servos on 8v.

You will need the HW 2 in 1 programing box to update you ESC firmware. I got mine from Helidirect for under $25.

If you sell the jive PM me with a price, I may be interested depending on the version #.


Have fun! The 6hv is a MONSTER! The torque put out by the motor is amazing. Even with my pathetic collective skills and a TC of 85% I can tic-toc as fast as I can bang the sticks and still not lose any altitude.


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Old 06-15-2011, 09:32 AM   #8
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Yeah, put the 8717's away for a future project. They will still be a viable servo for years to come. I wish I had never sold mine because as much as I like my Torq 9180's, the 8717's were honestly better because they are a loooot faster (especially on 8V). The Torqs are really smooth and were well worth the price, and damn, they're freakin pretty!!! but the JR's are still the best servos money can buy in my opinion.

The Tunrigy programmer is this one: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=8996

Not sure how to find the firmware update and I don't want to misdirect you, so hopefully someone else can pipe up and get you where you need to be. I plan on doing the updates myself, but gotta put it in queue with buying new batteries, chargers, spare parts, and God knows what else! lol The list never seems to get any shorter!
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:34 AM   #9
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"I would use the WR regardless of your Jive having an internal BEC. "

I could not agree more!
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:06 AM   #10
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Here's the link for the HW firmware update:

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=309140

I believe either the Turnigy or HW 2-in-1 programming box work, I have the HW but others have used the T.

To use the SK governor you'll need an RPM sensor, this also lets you log the rpms in your flight in the SK. Get the Hyperion sensor (phase tachometer), it's about $12 I think, I'm using it. Since you asked, the SK governor is dead easy tomsetup with the HW ESC. Setup your ESC for normal ungoverned flight and test it. In the SK all you need is to set in the GUI the target rpms you want and the ratio (41.6). Follow the wizard to set the necessary TCs in your radio.

What WR BEC do you have, is it the Herculer Super-BEC? I'm just asking to verify it's current capacity since this is FBL and the Servos can be power hungry. What radio do you have?
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:08 PM   #11
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I am going to be running the Savox 1267HV with a Torq 9188 on a 7HV. This was highly recommended by Mike.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:09 PM   #12
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castel, i have a dx7 and and yes its the hercules one i think. its the one nankin sells for $99. heres a link to the pkg i got http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t650378p1/
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:15 PM   #13
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Yep, you are good then, that's the Hercules SUPER-BEC, good for 10A/15A peak. If you are running telemetry I can help with that too if you need, a few pointers, RPM sensor, etc.

Nice setup! Everyone here is very nice so don't forget to ask any questions you have on your build!
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:38 PM   #14
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thanks. i have been hangin around this forum since i got my atom. i really like the "compass family" best of all. biggest reason i got a 6hv actually
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:03 PM   #15
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So if I run the savox hv's and get a 9188 hv tail servo then can I eliminate the bec? I want to simplify wiring as much as possible. I plan to run a 2s lipo. Or should I not for some reason
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:11 PM   #16
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Yes if you go with those servos and the SK720, just plug the lipo into your receiver (make sure it can handle HV too) and away you go.
If you are running Spektrum, the RXs can handle 2S. If Futaba, you need to get a HV capable RX.
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:33 PM   #17
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One point I'd interject about the WR Bec....I don't believe very many ESC failures have related to BEC failure, have they? I know we're not talking Castle Creations in this post, but in Crawl's HW failure, it certainly wasn't a BEC failure. Not sure I understand the additional layer of protection provided by a separate BEC from his Jive.
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:57 PM   #18
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JmanCobra, BEC or not is your choice and there are pros and cons to both. I personally like using a BEC since I don't need to charge or worry about the 2S. If you go with a 2S Lipo you would connect this to the SK Power Bus that feeds the servos and all electronics. The SK-720, your HV servos including tail and satellite RXs will be able to handle it no problem.

About simplifying wiring I don't see the BEC as a complication, instead of the 2S battery you have the BEC, and since it's the Super-BEC it can handle 12S so you'll connect it to the main flight battery to feed it. But either way you won't go wrong, so it's more of your choice. Check the list and detailed setups of the SK-720 6HV users in the SK thread to compare and see what others use, the link I sent you first.
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:28 PM   #19
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Rob (and to anyone interested in knowing) - a BEC or "battery eliminator circuit" is essentially a step-dwon that is integrated into the ESC itself. The problem with them and the reason they are not commonly included in the higher power ESC is that they are extremely noisey (in the RF sense). They also generate a lot of heat and it can cause thermal shut-downs if it cannot cool itself thoroughly.

The advantage of an external BEC is that #1 you can place it wherever it will get the most airflow. #2 it provides seperation of signals and interference. And #3 they are typically a lot more efficient.

BEC's are rarely a cause of an ESC failure, rather it's the ESC itself and the FETs that it uses (like in the case of the CC's where they don't have an internal BEC, but their LV ICE series don't have issues even with an internal BEC). The MOSFETs usually get overloaded or glitch out which causes them to get hot, short, or other malfunction and then **POOF!** (Castle) cremation.

The thought with using the internal BEC of the Jive is that it's made by a very good manufacturer and they don't spare any expense. Even then though, you will have issues because it's just the nature of the circuitry. If you think about it, you are essentially cramming up to 180 amps of current through each strand of MOSFETs and they are about the equivalent of 20 guage wire. Off the top of my head, that's rated for a whopping 1-2 amps of power transmission and only 10-ish amps for chassis wiring, so it shouldn't be any wonder that they destroy themselves.

To put it into perspective, that's like trying to fit a semi/tractor-trailer going 50mph through the front door of your house! Tell me how well your house would stand up to that kind of abuse!!!
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:28 AM   #20
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I'm running JR8917HV servos on a electric Rave ENV setup. Honestly, if I had to do it all over I wouldn't do the HV servos on electric, maybe nitro.

For me the idea sounded great, but some of the things I ran into when I set the heli configuration up included:

1) The Jive 120HV BEC i was using did not support 8v to the servos. So I was forced to use a separate Rx lipo battery (more weight)

2) HV servos draw a lot of current. The servo connectors have current limitations. You have to pay attention to this when choosing a FBL controller. I used Beastx, and had to load balance my power from two different sources to accommodate the HV setup. I understand other FBL controllers can handle this no problem.

The above was my specific setup, and only one mans opinion, and will be different for other configurations. I can only say do your research on the HV thing


My next heli will use a straight LIFE lipo power source to 8717.
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