Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > NextD - Rave 450 and 90


NextD - Rave 450 and 90 CJY Rave 450 and 90 Helicopter Kit - ND-YR-K001


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-21-2011, 08:33 PM   #1
froghammer
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto
Default A little flybarless/servo range help here?

So today I set up my Rave with an RJX head and Mini Vbar. Originally, I put the balls at 10mm out on the servo arms, but I wasn't getting enough collective throw so. Also, I was getting this weird thing happening when I fully tilted the swash forward or backward and went to the extremes of the collective. So, I put the balls back at the 13mm spot or so and got the collective range a lot better, but the odd issue of the servos running out of movement remained.

Here's a video of the issue. What I did is tilt the swash all the way and then move the collective up and down. You can see how at the extremes, the swash flattens out a bit because either the elevator or ailerons have no more travel left in them but the other does.


Thing is, this setup from the servo arms to swash is the same as when I had it flybarred so it must have had this issue then too. Really, when you think about it, everything above the swash is kind of irrelevant in this situation.

Can anyone shed some light on what the heck is going on? This helicopter is really getting on my nerves. I've flown it for a total of about 5 minutes since I got it and have had nothing but troubles. I'm really hoping for a win here to make me feel better. Haha.
froghammer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2011, 08:45 AM   #2
Sky Dancer
Registered Users
 
Posts: 576
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bryan, Texas
Default

What is your total pitch range in degrees (+/-)?

What is your cyclic range in degrees?

Don C
Sky Dancer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2011, 09:03 AM   #3
adroc3905
Registered Users
 
Posts: 777
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Rochester,NY
Default

Your servo arms appear to be center at center stick but hard to tell.
Are you using digi servos? All I can make out is Hitec.
__________________
TBS Discovery
Rave 450 FBL - miniVbar
Trex 500 ESP FBL - Beastx
Trex 600 ESP FBL - Beastx
adroc3905 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2011, 10:06 AM   #4
froghammer
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto
Default

Yeah, the servos are centered at center stick and the link lengths are what the manual says to have them at. Plus, the range of movement seems to top out equally in both directions so I'm pretty sure they're centered as good as possible. They're Hitec 5065s.

The pitch range is 12/12. Cyclic in degrees, huh? That may be a problem because I don't trust that my FBL pitch thingo (yes, that's the technical term...) is sitting perfectly straight on the top of that rounded head. I put it on once and it looked pretty crooked so I relied on the vbar "easy" setup where you measure from the blade tips to the table. It was in the low range of the sweet spot in the vbar software (78, I think...).
froghammer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2011, 10:11 AM   #5
froghammer
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto
Default

Oh yeah, and I should add that I DID get to test fly the helicopter today. So far, so good- it's smooth as silk and solid as a rock while just hovering around. What I'm concerned about is going to try a roll or flip and getting a surprise if all of a sudden I don't have the same amount of cyclic pitch available.

That said, it's not likely that I'll be full collective either way and needing full cyclic- I'm not a heavy-duty 3D flyer. But I would still love to find out what's causing my setup issue.
froghammer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2011, 10:25 AM   #6
N0FEAR
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,445
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chicago, NW Suburbs
Default

One thing to remember that some FBL systems (not sure about the vbar) have an automatic cyclic ring feature built into them. This will reduce the amount of cyclic pitch at max collective throw to avoid binding in the head.

The beast does this too. I have about 200 flights on my rave 450 with the beast and no issues.
__________________
Rave 450 FBL
Rave ENV FBL


CurtisYoungblood.com - Field Rep.
N0FEAR is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2011, 11:50 AM   #7
froghammer
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto
Default

Okay, cool. If it's normal, then that's the way it is and I'll just work around it. I've avoided fooling with the cyclic ring stuff up to this point because I'm not entirely confident about using it. But I do know what it does and I'll do some tuning and fooling.

Thanks everyone for the help and for the confirmation that it's normal. I figured it was because like I mentioned before, everything swash down is set up according the manual.
froghammer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2011, 12:27 PM   #8
adroc3905
Registered Users
 
Posts: 777
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Rochester,NY
Default

Mr Mel has some great mini Vbar setup vids available in the Mikado Vbar forum. Look for his sticky on setup 101 and then 5.0 vids. He uses the Rave 450 for the tutorial.
__________________
TBS Discovery
Rave 450 FBL - miniVbar
Trex 500 ESP FBL - Beastx
Trex 600 ESP FBL - Beastx
adroc3905 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2011, 12:30 PM   #9
froghammer
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto
Default

I used those videos, for sure. Very handy.
froghammer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2011, 09:30 PM   #10
tmry
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tulsa, OK
Default

I'm using the 10mm setup but that was really only because at 12.5mm to get 8 deg on the pitch setup in Vbar I was having to basically put the gain to the very lowest setting. However I have the gain around 80ish right now at the 10mm setup and what I've found is it's very dull. I know it should be snappier. Even with -30 expo it doesn't roll like I'd like it.

With the 12.5mm setup on the arms what are you dialing in for the gain? My next stop will probably be the vbar forum. It's a joy to fly but the very slow cyclic makes me nervous doing any kind of inverted stuff.

Edit: I just looked closely at mine, it does the same thing. It has to be the vbar doing it. Have you tried plugging in your old receiver and seeing if it does the same thing? Another thing mine is doing is if I give like full left aileron it will move a distance, then pause, then move a little more. Weird.

Last edited by tmry; 07-24-2011 at 12:33 AM..
tmry is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 07:11 AM   #11
froghammer
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto
Default

It's definitely not the vbar doing it. When it flattens out like that at the top and bottom, it's because my servo arms are completely vertical and physically can't go any further to keep the swash at the same tilt angle. I put six packs through the heli last night and didn't notice any weird behavior. It reacted a lot like my 450 Pro and didn't give me any surprises.

Of course, with the Rave being the Ferrari of helicopters, when I got home I noticed that something had broken- the bolt that secures one of the boom support rods had snapped. And because I didn't bring up my spare landing gear, of course said bolt sheared off and I can't get it out of the gear to put a new bolt in. Had I brought my spare landing gear this wouldn't have happened. Haha. It's always something with this heli!

Whatever though- flying it last night with the 350 blades was awesome. A big step up from my Pro for sure.
froghammer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 07:19 AM   #12
froghammer
Registered Users
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto
Default

Oh yeah- and I forgot to mention that my heli doesn't exhibit any of the pausing you described. That doesn't sound good though. Yikes.

And I'm kind of new to all of this, but I'm pretty sure that expo would have nothing to do with your roll rate. It'll change the initial response, but if you bang the stick all the way it's always going to roll or flip as fast as it could have. I could be wrong though.
froghammer is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2011, 08:25 AM   #13
N0FEAR
Registered Users
 
Posts: 2,445
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chicago, NW Suburbs
Default

Expo will not increase or decrease how snappy the machine is. It will just soften it up around center stick.
You need to adjust your end points to increase/decrease your cyclic / tail response.
__________________
Rave 450 FBL
Rave ENV FBL


CurtisYoungblood.com - Field Rep.
N0FEAR is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopter Support > NextD - Rave 450 and 90


NextD - Rave 450 and 90 CJY Rave 450 and 90 Helicopter Kit - ND-YR-K001

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com