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Old 08-07-2011, 04:34 PM   #1
Leon Luke
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Default 3GX settings

Trex 450 sport
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...1256d0b&type=1

Trex550
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...cba0d35&type=1

Trex 600
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...796d410&type=1

Trex700N and E
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...5ba5c71&type=1

My findings:

I fly with 20% expo, with 0 expo in the software, I fly with a DX8

If you have too much cyclic dialed in dir. you may experience the slap/overshoot, I use 12 degrees cyclic and 14degrees pitch in dir. Additionally, your slap/overshoot can be fixed with fbl blades, higher headspeed, reducing your stop gains. A few of examples of the overshoot/slap:
1) In tick tocs or when applying elevator if you hold it for slightly too long it is easy for the machine to overshoot.
2) In a vertical tail down dive, when you do a hard forward elevator stop with hard collective the heli sometimes wants to overshoot in the elevator axis.
3) Hard stops in grave diggers.

Any bobbling tendency like in tic tocs should be fixed with lock gains (different than slapping/overhsooting)

Any stuttering or heli fighting itself in the chaos/piroflips then reduce lock gains

If you for example in a tic tock and notice that heli starts off ok and then accelerates, then I tend to reduce the bell. What I have not shown in the settings is that I have done more fine tuning with the hiller and bell percentages. With the larger helis its like 50hiller and 60bell or 55hiller and 55bell. For the smaller helis 60hiller and 40bell.

If above does not fix it, then try upping your swash return speed.

My gains are setup at 200, but that is on the original prototype desktop interface software, and am not sure if it represents the same thing in the new software. I am running v1.1 which everyone should upgrade to.

The tail is alot better and during development that was a major priority. The tail gain is increased automatically as you deflect the rudderstick, this give the tail more consistency, future upgrade may include a slider to affect how much gain is added as you deflect the rudder. On occasion, the limiting factor to how high you can turn up the overall gain for me is when I give full right rudder, the tail may stutter as it goes around. Instead of turning down the overall tail gain, I reduced the tail lock gain to 60 and it fixes it.

More to come as I remember.
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Last edited by Leon Luke; 08-07-2011 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:45 PM   #2
Cullen Colapietro
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Leon, I loaded up your settings and I must say that the heli flies quite nicely. I added 12% expo to my Ail nd Elev to smooth things out a bit and this helped a lot w/ some strange tendencies I had during tic tocs. It felt as if ith heli was slapping into place, rather than a nice smooth tic and toc. It's still not perfect, but feels VERY nice in most other flight situations.

One question/issue you may be able to shed some light on: sometimes, as I'm "smacking" from invertd back to upright, the stopsare not accurate, it's like the 3GX overshoots a bit, not a confidence inspiring feeling inches off the deck!

Lastly, I kept the tail settings stock and the tail is working quite well for me ATM. I tried your tail settings as well, but didn't notice a huge difference, though I'm not pushing the tail to it's limits yet.

Any help is hugely appreciated.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:00 PM   #3
Leon Luke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullen Colapietro View Post
Leon, I loaded up your settings and I must say that the heli flies quite nicely. I added 12% expo to my Ail nd Elev to smooth things out a bit and this helped a lot w/ some strange tendencies I had during tic tocs. It felt as if ith heli was slapping into place, rather than a nice smooth tic and toc. It's still not perfect, but feels VERY nice in most other flight situations.

One question/issue you may be able to shed some light on: sometimes, as I'm "smacking" from invertd back to upright, the stopsare not accurate, it's like the 3GX overshoots a bit, not a confidence inspiring feeling inches off the deck!

Lastly, I kept the tail settings stock and the tail is working quite well for me ATM. I tried your tail settings as well, but didn't notice a huge difference, though I'm not pushing the tail to it's limits yet.

Any help is hugely appreciated.
I fly with 20% expo, with 0 expo in the software.

If you have too much cyclic dialed in dir. you may experience the slap/overshoot, I use 12 degrees cyclic in dir. Additionally, your slap/overshoot can be fixed with fbl blades, higher headspeed, reducing your stop gains.

Any bobbling tendency like in tic tocs should be fixed with lock gains (different than slapping/overhsooting)

Any stuttering or heli fighting itself in the chaos/piroflips then reduce lock gains

If you for example in a tic tock and notice that heli starts off ok and then accelerates, then I tend to reduce the bell. What I have not shown in the settings is that I have done more fine tuning with the hiller and bell percentages. With the larger helis its like 50hiller and 60bell or 55hiller and 55bell. For the smaller helis 60hiller and 40bell.

If above does not fix it, then try upping your swash return speed.

My gains are setup at 200, but that is on the original prototype desktop interface software, and am not sure if it represents the same thing in the new software. I am running v1.1 which everyone should upgrade to.

The tail is alot better and during development that was a major priority. The tail gain is increased automaticall as you deflect the rudderstick, this give the tail more consistency, future upgrade may include a slider to affect how much gain is added as you deflect the rudder. On occasion the limiting factor to how high you can turn up the overall gain for me is when I give full right rudder, the tail may stutter as it goes around. Instead of turning down the overall tail gain, I reduced the tail lock gain to 60 and it fixes it.

More to come as I remember.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:11 PM   #4
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Leon, I appreciate the feedback.

I figured that the Stop/Lock gains were going to be crucial to getting the nice FB feel in snappier maneuvers. I will take the software to the field next time. I imagine dampers can play a role as well.

ATM I am flying 3G blades and my HS is 3500rpm. I recently lowered my cyclic in DIR from 12 degrees to 9 degrees as I thought this would affect how the heli felt in tic-tocs, but it didn't seem to feel a whole lot different and still rolls/flips very quickly.

I really enjoy how your settings feel overall, please do continue to keep us posted. Until then, I'll try playing with my stop gains
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:28 AM   #5
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Leon:

The settings for TREX550 does not include the RUDDER settings!
Can you please repost these?
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:16 PM   #6
snemi00
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Thanks for sharing your settings. I am setting up my 700e and applied your settings, however the Setting display screenshot is missing so I don't know whe you've got your overall gains set. I'm assuming you meant that your sliders for gains go up to 200, and not that you've got your gains there.
Thanks.
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:50 PM   #7
sumonzu
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Hi Leon, great post indeed :-)
I'm looking for a smooth response of the cyclic: with my actual settings this feels too much "mechanic". I'm looking for a feeling like the physical flybar. What parameters do I have to play with?
Thank you
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:01 PM   #8
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I would suggest playing with your Bell/Hiller numbers AND don't forget to try a bit of expo!
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:14 PM   #9
sumonzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullen Colapietro View Post
I would suggest playing with your Bell/Hiller numbers AND don't forget to try a bit of expo!
Thank you Cullen, just for not beginning with the wrong way: can you have an idea how they act? I mean more Bell how modify the reaction? Etc.
Anyone can help in this matter? I'll really appreciate! :-)
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:34 PM   #10
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sumonzu, read ALL of Leon's 1st post as he has continued to edit and re-hash some issues. He has laid the foundation. If flying a 600-700 heli, try 55, 55 but if flying a 500 or smaller, try 60 hiller, 45 bell. This is where I'm at and it feels pretty good.

Thanks for the updates Leon.

As to my issue of overshooting, I think i have it mostly worked out on my 450. I have gone to 55 on the stop gain and 11:30 on Elev dial/ 12:00 on Aile dial on the unit itself. It's almost gone.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumonzu View Post
Hi Leon, great post indeed :-)
I'm looking for a smooth response of the cyclic: with my actual settings this feels too much "mechanic". I'm looking for a feeling like the physical flybar. What parameters do I have to play with?
Thank you
Try increasing the Hiller, the top slider and decreasing the bell but try to keep the total of the two to 100-110
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:38 PM   #12
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Default IRCHA

I may not have time to post in the next few days, but will get back on Tuesday....See you at IRCHA!
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:42 PM   #13
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Leon, can I use DR to decrease my cyclic speed, or should I decrease endpoints as w/ the BeastX or even go back into DIR to lower the cyclic pitch? I went from 12 to 9 degrees and my tic tocs still want me to use way less cyclic than my FB machines...
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:24 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullen Colapietro View Post
Leon, can I use DR to decrease my cyclic speed, or should I decrease endpoints as w/ the BeastX or even go back into DIR to lower the cyclic pitch? I went from 12 to 9 degrees and my tic tocs still want me to use way less cyclic than my FB machines...
I would use 12 degrees cyclic, and you can use expo to tame it down. You can also decrease the Aileron/Elevator control rate in the pc interface. When I was with the designer, he was quite adamant about setting up machines with 12 degrees cyclic.

Designer says not to use adjust endpoints, just subtrims at half stick to level swash.

If that does not give you the feel you desire, then by all means go and decrease cyclic through dir.
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Last edited by Leon Luke; 08-10-2011 at 01:34 AM.. Reason: addition
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:34 AM   #15
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Hi Leon Luke,

I just just completed my first 3GX setup and have gotten some nasty effects.
I have used your settings as the customization and in my thread discussing my problems I have also shown my 'Settings Display' in comparison to your 450 Sport settings.

Any chance you could take a quick look and see if you have any ideas why my settings are so different to yours please ?

My thread is here :- http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=329597

Thanks

Timbo
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:19 PM   #16
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Doesn't Align's manual ask for like 9* of cyclic?
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:57 PM   #17
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The 3gx setup guide specifies 12 degrees mechanical and Leon Lukes designer friend seems to be saying this should be followed and then ( if required ) 'down tuned' in your tx
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:54 PM   #18
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From the 3GX software instructions. It's not always 12 degrees:

(Collective Pitch Settings)
◎T-REX 250:
 With Emphasis On Stability : 12
 With emphasis on agility : 14
◎T-REX 450:
 With Emphasis On Stability :12
 With emphasis on agility:14
◎T-REX 500:
 With Emphasis On Stability :10~12
 With emphasis on agility :12~14
◎T-REX 550:
 With Emphasis On Stability :10~12
 With emphasis on agility :12~14
◎T-REX 600:
 With Emphasis On Stability :10~12
 With emphasis on agility :12~13
◎T-REX 700:
 With Emphasis On Stability :10~12
 With emphasis on agility :12~14

Cyclic:
◎T-REX 250:
 With Emphasis On Stability : 12
 With emphasis on agility : 14
◎T-REX 450:
 With Emphasis On Stability :9
 With emphasis on agility:11
◎T-REX 500:
 With Emphasis On Stability :7
 With emphasis on agility :9
◎T-REX 550:
 With Emphasis On Stability :12
 With emphasis on agility :14
◎T-REX 600:
 With Emphasis On Stability :8
 With emphasis on agility :9
◎T-REX 700:
 With Emphasis On Stability :12
 With emphasis on agility :12
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:16 PM   #19
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I stand corrected , just call me blind
For some reason (call the the old age factor) I had put 12 on cyclic as well as collective.

Thanks.

Still can't figure out why the tail wont behave.
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:18 PM   #20
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Guys - when my 3GX is connected to my PC and I have the software up and running and do not have the aileron, elevator or rudder parameter tabs available, i,e, they are not there. I don't see the tabs - how do you access them?

S
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