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View Poll Results: Is a bigger heli more dangerous to a noob?
Yes 508 74.05%
No 103 15.01%
Not sure 75 10.93%
Voters: 686. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-16-2011, 10:15 PM   #61
rdlohr
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It happens so fast there is really not much that you can do to stop it. The gory pictures post underscores why it was so important for me to raise this question. Most helis are dangerous, the bigger the heli, the more potential it has to really hurt you. Stability may help you avoid some crashes. A higher level of respect may help you avoid some crashes. But, there is a whole category of noob crashes that are simply due to dumb thumb moves that would happen similarly with any heli. The only questions left then are how powerful is the thing that is going to hit you and how lucky are you.

Its kind of like a .22 caliber rifle vs. a .45 vs a bazooka. They can all kill you but the bigger guns are more likely to kill you. The MCP-X is like a BB gun.

Rick
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:20 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadjocky View Post
Please provide your statical analysis of this. I don't doubt you but if you make a statement like this please prove it with facts.
It's extremely common knowledge but if you need proof.look it up.

The heli industry didn't start with 450's.
It started with large nitros.

There were very few people involved until the cheap little electrics popped up a few years ago.

Look at the safety forums and count small electric injuries and large (.50 .90) heli injuries.
Compare.

You would hear it shouted from the rooftops if large helis were taking people out.
It has happened.There are a few deaths and a few para/quadriplegics over large helis but there are literally thousands of serious injuries from 500's and smaller.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:29 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E McD View Post
It's extremely common knowledge but if you need proof.look it up.

The heli industry didn't start with 450's.
It started with large nitros.

There were very few people involved until the cheap little electrics popped up a few years ago.

Look at the safety forums and count small electric injuries and large (.50 .90) heli injuries.
Compare.

You would hear it shouted from the rooftops if large helis were taking people out.
It has happened.There are a few deaths and a few para/quadriplegics over large helis but there are literally thousands of serious injuries from 500's and smaller.
Did you ever consider that its because the noobs are flying the 450s, and that the number of noobs has exploded because of the price and quality of the current 450s. If there were more noobs flying 700s, you would see lots more deaths from bigger helis IMHO.

Rick
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:37 PM   #64
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After my own experience in learning to fly these machines I would have to say a simulator is the very first place any nooby should go. Learn to hover in all orientations and keep the heli away from your self, than try a real heli of the biggest size they are personally comfortable with.

With that being said, I am in the camp of bigger is better. Far better. Not only are they more stable and slower to move, but they absolutely command a certain respect. Small helis are twitchy and unpredictable.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:40 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Down Low View Post
After my own experience in learning to fly these machines I would have to say a simulator is the very first place any nooby should go. Learn to hover in all orientations and keep the heli away from your self, than try a real heli of the biggest size they are personally comfortable with.

With that being said, I am in the camp of bigger is better. Far better. Not only are they more stable and slower to move, but they absolutely command a certain respect. Small helis are twitchy and unpredictable.
Actually I would agree with this if the simulator didn't get some damn boring. Many people, me included, wanted to be out there flying.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:43 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
Did you ever consider that its because the noobs are flying the 450s, and that the number of noobs has exploded because of the price and quality of the current 450s. If there were more noobs flying 700s, you would see lots more deaths from bigger helis IMHO.

Rick
That's what I said

Another thing is the fact that noobs don't go out and drop three grand to see if they are interested or not.

No matter what though...people show 700's respect where they play with a 450 like a toy.
Once you've held a 710mm blade in your hand and felt the weight of a 10 pound 700...spooling up becomes scary.
Nothing about a 450 makes it seem dangerous until it hurts you.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:50 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E McD View Post
That's what I said

Another thing is the fact that noobs don't go out and drop three grand to see if they are interested or not.

No matter what though...people show 700's respect where they play with a 450 like a toy.
Once you've held a 710mm blade in your hand and felt the weight of a 10 pound 700...spooling up becomes scary.
Nothing about a 450 makes it seem dangerous until it hurts you.
Look again at the last sentence....
Rick
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:53 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
Did you ever consider that its because the noobs are flying the 450s, and that the number of noobs has exploded because of the price and quality of the current 450s. If there were more noobs flying 700s, you would see lots more deaths from bigger helis IMHO.

Rick
So were people dropping like fly's (dying) when small heli's wern't around?How did the guy's year's ago learn to fly all them 60/90 size nitro's.They didn't have HH gyro,sim's ect... and they wern't dying..What make's back in the day's any different than now ?We have sim's,setup tool's HH gyro's,FBL,internet/site's for helping each other ect...We have it alot better than back then and much safer...
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:53 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
Look again at the last sentence....
Rick
What about it?
More noobs AREN'T flying 700's so it's moot.

I don't suggest either as a starting point and don't even care where someone starts.

That's my point.
I don't see any deal breakers for either.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:57 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by flyinghigh450 View Post
So were people dropping like fly's (dying) when small heli's wern't around?How did the guy's year's ago learn to fly all them 60/90 size nitro's.They didn't have HH gyro,sim's ect... and they wern't dying..What make's back in the day's any different than now ?We have sim's,setup tool's HH gyro's,FBL,internet/site's for helping each other ect...
You are talking apples and oranges here. RC Helis was a very niche hobby. You had to have money and you had to have a relatively mature set of building skills just to get in the door.

Today, any kid can get a 450 for a Birthday present and be flying in a few days.

Rick
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:59 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E McD View Post
What about it?
More noobs AREN'T flying 700's so it's moot.

I don't suggest either as a starting point and don't even care where someone starts.

That's my point.
I don't see any deal breakers for either.
Sorry, I thought you were in the "big helis for noobs" boat. My bad.
Rick
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:00 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
You are talking apples and oranges here. RC Helis was a very niche hobby. You had to have money and you had to have a relatively mature set of building skills just to get in the door.

Today, any kid can get a 450 for a Birthday present and be flying in a few days.

Rick
You're still making my point.
.90's are STILL expensive and require a mature set of skills.

You're going to see the injuries with smaller helis.
You could say 450's are more dangerous because they don't "seem" dangerous.
Like a Venus Fly Trap.

At least the big ones are obviously dangerous.
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:03 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
You are talking apples and oranges here. RC Helis was a very niche hobby. You had to have money and you had to have a relatively mature set of building skills just to get in the door.

Today, any kid can get a 450 for a Birthday present and be flying in a few days.

Rick
Come on man,that's even with heli's today..
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:16 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E McD View Post
You're still making my point.
.90's are STILL expensive and require a mature set of skills.

You're going to see the injuries with smaller helis.
You could say 450's are more dangerous because they don't "seem" dangerous.
Like a Venus Fly Trap.

At least the big ones are obviously dangerous.
Round and round and round we go. Time for me to jump off the merry go round.

This thread has served its purpose. It was intended to raise awareness of the dangers involved with noobs flying bigger helis.

75% of responders think that bigger helis are more dangerous to noobs, and most would agree more dangerous to anyone.

15% of responders think smaller helis are just as dangerous and the large presence and stability of the bigger helis make them just as safe.

I think both sides of the argument have been adequately made and and its now up to each new pilot to pick his (or her) poison. Thanks for participating.

Rick
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:19 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlohr View Post
75% of responders think that bigger helis are more dangerous to noobs, and most would agree more dangerous to anyone.


Rick
How many were from noob's?Im sure alot are so that doesn't count ..
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:24 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by flyinghigh450 View Post
How many were from noob's?Im sure alot are so that doesn't count ..
right
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:31 PM   #77
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To each their own
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Old 08-16-2011, 11:32 PM   #78
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Just messing with ya on that one ..It's all good and the key is to be safe no matter what size anyone fly's .
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:00 AM   #79
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I look at it this way...which is more dangerous a .22 LR or a 308 for a new shooter? Right, .22LR. Why, attitude. People think "oh, it's just a 22" and don't respect the gun and do something stupid.

The same attitude is happening with the heli's. Its small so it's safer. Wrong. If you abuse or misuse the heli, it will be unsafe.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:59 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by seanh View Post
I look at it this way...which is more dangerous a .22 LR or a 308 for a new shooter? Right, .22LR. Why, attitude. People think "oh, it's just a 22" and don't respect the gun and do something stupid.

The same attitude is happening with the heli's. Its small so it's safer. Wrong. If you abuse or misuse the heli, it will be unsafe.
If you carry that logic further you get, "What is more dangerous a BB gun or a .308?"

Then you got to ask yourself what would you rather a trigger happy drunk idiot had, the BB gun or the .308? For that matter if you had a trigger happy drunk idiot would you rather they had a .22 or .308?

A lot of people come to this site asking what gun should be their first gun, and we have no idea if they're trigger happy drunk idiots or not, but we keep handing out .308's instead of BB guns. Will the first shot scare the bejezzus out of them and maybe teach them guns are dangerous things that deserve respect, hopefully, but it's those first shots you really have to worry about.

I hear your argument that people will tend be more careful with a bigger nosier and obviously more dangerous helicopter. But I still remember how little control I had for my first 100 flights and I got to ask, even with all the respect these things deserve, Are bigger helicopters more dangerous? Yes they are. Are unexpected mishaps more likely with inexperienced pilots? Yes they are. Can you safely learn on a larger helicopter? Of course you can.

But unexpected things happen, even to the most careful of people. And if they happen to someone on their tenth flight and your standing next to them would you rather they're flying a 700 or an mCPx?
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