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450 Class Electric Helicopters 450 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 04-20-2007, 07:47 PM   #1
creightoncarr
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Default CC35 and Medusa 32-40-3400

Anybody running this combination? I recently put in the Medusa motor and at the same time switched from the Align 35Ag to the CC35 ESC. I'm running TPX 3S packs and a 13T pinion; the ESC settings are as follows:

Setting 1: Cutoff Voltage --> Auto-Lipo
Setting 2: Current Limiting --> Insensitive
Setting 3: Brake Type --> Disabled
Setting 4: Throttle Type --> Heli Fixed Endpoints
Setting 5: Electronic Timing Advance --> Low Advance
Setting 6: Low Voltage Cutoff Type --> Soft Cutoff
Setting 8: Soft Start --> "5" Soft Start
Setting 9: PWM Switching Rate --> 13kHz

After 5 minutes of flight my temps are as follows:

Motor --> 185 degrees F
ESC --> 180 degrees F at the BEC circuitry (I am not using separate BEC)
Battery --> 135 degrees

I originally was running the timing advance at standard advance and got the same temps as above. The ESC got so hot at the BEC circuitry that it melted the shrink wrap. I called Castle and it was suggested that I lower the timing advance to "Low" and try to increase airflow over the ESC (I have it mounted on the from of the lower tray below the battery). I have holes cut in my canopy and cannot really do anythign more to increase the airflow.

With low time advance I flew a pack this afternoon and after five minutes the temps were the same. And now my TPX 2200 3S 25C pack is puffed. It only has about 40 cycles on it and has always been balanced - BUT it was HOT, ~140 degrees under the shrink tube.

I swapped the ESC back to the Align 35Ag and flew a couple more packs. The temperatures after each were much more reasonable. Motor about 155-165 degrees, ESC 105 degrees and the batteries 100-110 degrees.

SO, AFTER ALL OF THAT - is the CC35 likely bad? I don't think the settings I'm using are the problem. I haven't heard of any issues with the CC35 and Medusa motors so I don't really know what other possibility there is. The fact that the CC35 is getting so hot it melts the shrink tubing is a little disconcerting. And I'm mildly upset that my pack is puffed. Anyone think Castle will offer to replace my pack?

Sorry for the long post - I'm trying to give all the information at once rather than piecemeal.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:16 PM   #2
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All looks good except for Throttle type. I would set that to Governor High. With that change you are running the same settings that have been run by several people on several HIGH current motors. That Medusa can really pull the juice!!
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:27 PM   #3
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I've been meaning to set up the governor but just haven't got round to it yet. Even with fixed endpoints though I wouldn't think I should be seeing the problems I am. I run the Align ESC with my throttle curves on this motor with no problem. As an aside, I love the power this motor has compared to the Align motors. I haven't tried a Neu motor yet.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:28 PM   #4
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That setup is HOT theres no doubt about that!!! Do you have the PHNX Link? You might try an upgrade, who knows what shelf that was sitting on for a while.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:47 PM   #5
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I have the Castle Link and am running the latest firmware. HOT enough to melt the shrink wrap? That doesn't seem right. I don't mind if it runs hot, but this seems like an extreme. Plus it puffed a 25C TP extreme pack in 5 minutes. I'm not running extreme pitches either, +- 11 degrees. I agree that running in governor made may help, but I think I ought to be able to run with my throttle curve and not have to worry about the ESC burning up or trashing my batteries. Seems like maybe I should have saved myself some trouble and gone with a Jazz. That is unless my Phoenix is a dud. When I talked to Castle on the phone the first time, I raised that possibility and was told that they either work or they don't, there is no in between. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I don't buy that. I've had plenty of electrical things that kinda work, but not quite right.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:55 PM   #6
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Yea the castle link was what I meant. If you bought your CC35 at the LHS go swap it out. Have you tried the ESC with the 430Xl? I would be curious to see if it is motor related although highly unlikely. I assume that you are familiar with pinion meshing / backlash etc. And FWIW after an ESC gets that hot I would be unlikely to keep using it.
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TREX 600 CF / 611 Gyro / 9252's / FP 4900's.

Bergen Intrepid EB / V-Blades / 401 / 9252's / Futaba 9CHPS / Spartan AP2000i

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Old 04-20-2007, 10:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creightoncarr
I have the Castle Link and am running the latest firmware. HOT enough to melt the shrink wrap? T
I've got the CC45 and I have the same melting shrinkwrap...

I'll keep using it, it looks fine. ;p

Oh, I'm using Gov Medium and no low voltage cutoff shenanigans. When I crash my heli I like it to be my fault, not because I'm in the middle of a tail slide when the low voltage protection kicks in.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:01 PM   #8
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I have not tried the phoenix with the XL. I've read numerous times that the two don't work well together. My gear mesh is good. I've already pulled the CC ESC and replaced it with an Align for the time being. Changing nothing but the ESC (CC to Align) caused temps to go way down - into the predicted ranges. I think it's just the ESC, but this is my first experience with CC products, and so far I'm not impressed (though I do like CastleLink, but it does very little for me if I can't use the speed controller :? ).
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:01 PM   #9
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So Rogan you are saying that you dont think its a problem? How many flights have you put on after your heatshrink melted??
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Although effective the T-Rex is not meant to be used as an excavation tool. (disclaimer)

TREX 450 SE V2 / 401-9650 / HS65's / 430XL / Gorilla Gear / Radix / Spektrum DX7 / AR6100 / 3s on FP 25C

TREX 600 CF / 611 Gyro / 9252's / FP 4900's.

Bergen Intrepid EB / V-Blades / 401 / 9252's / Futaba 9CHPS / Spartan AP2000i

Astroflight 109 w/ FP V Balance.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by creightoncarr
I have the Castle Link and am running the latest firmware. HOT enough to melt the shrink wrap? T
I've got the CC45 and I have the same melting shrinkwrap...

I'll keep using it, it looks fine. ;p
Are you running 4S or 3S? I could live with the shrink wrap being melted but I can't live with 140 degree plus pack temps with mild flights - especially since I've already lost a pack with this controller.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edjamakated
So Rogan you are saying that you dont think its a problem? How many flights have you put on after your heatshrink melted??
My heatshrink melted after the first flight.

Edit - read the question incorrectly.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edjamakated
So Rogan you are saying that you dont think its a problem? How many flights have you put on after your heatshrink melted??
A lot, since the first time I plugged it in, maybe in October? I got the CC45 about the same time as my Medusa. I don't log, but I average at least 2 flights a day. I've never done more than three batteries back to back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creightoncarr
My heatshrink melted after the first flight.
Ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creightoncarr
Are you running 4S or 3S? I could live with the shrink wrap being melted but I can't live with 140 degree plus pack temps with mild flights - especially since I've already lost a pack with this controller.
3S here, on TPX 2050. How much are you putting back into your packs. The only times I've puffed mine was when I've drained more than 90% of a pack. One of my packs is very tired now, though.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:17 PM   #13
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what pinion are you using. i use an 11 on that set up wide open
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:20 PM   #14
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12T here on 100% Gov
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:22 PM   #15
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What headspeed are you running? ESC's and brushless motors run most efficiently and cooler when run closer to 100% as opposed to further away. I've been running the same combo for over a year with no problems. My temps are never that hot. A 13T with that combo is good for a head speed in the 3000-3100 range. I'm running a 12T at 2800.

I removed the factory heat shrink on the CC35 and installed a couple of 1/8" wide bands of heat shrink instead to keep the circuit boards aligned. I originally had it located below the main gear inside the rear of the frame, but moved it up front under the battery tray.

Are you using a heat sink on the motor? I'm using two of the Align gold heat sinks on mine. My motor temps are consistently in the 130F range. My ESC shows in the 120F's, and the packs between 110F-120F, which is ideal for LiPo's, as they put out their power most efficiently at about 120F.

As for settings on the CC35, here are my current settings as saved with Castle link:

Brake Ramp: Super Slow
Cutoff Voltage: 60
Hex55: 85
Brake Strength: 0
Direction: Forward (*)
Spool-Up Speed: 10
Throttle Type: Heli: Governor High
Current Limiting: Disabled
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Motor Start Power: 44.9375
Throttle Response: 2
Motor Timing: Standard Advance (*)
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
PWM Rate: 13khz (*)
Governor Gain: 41.4285714285714

I set the cutoff voltage down to 6 volts so that it won't hit it. I use the timer on my Futaba 9C to know when to land, which is at 6:30 minutes. I typically put about 1650 mAh back into the packs. I've been using Apex 3S packs which I've been getting for $30. I figure that even if I damage a pack by running it too low, it's still far cheaper than the repairs due to hitting the low voltage cutoff at a bad time. I've tried various LiPo alarms, but in bright sunlight at a noisy airfield, you can't see or hear them, so I just rely on my timer.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:27 PM   #16
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I have run that same combination, never had any overheating problems. CC35 Tp 2100 pro-lites 13 tooth pinions running low governor mode at 85 on the throttle curve for a headspeed of 3000. Nothing ever got too hot. It almost sounds to me like you might have gotten a bum ESC. Castle creations will warrant any of their products and have excellent customer service. As a side note, what gyro and servos are you running? perhaps the BEC is what is getting hot and not the actual motor control? All digital servos added to some binding or tight ball links could overheat that puppy.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
3S here, on TPX 2050. How much are you putting back into your packs. The only times I've puffed mine was when I've drained more than 90% of a pack. One of my packs is very tired now, though.
I'm not charging the puffed pack. The other pack I ran through before switch to the Align ESC was also a TPX 2200, again flown 5 minutes. I put 1650 mAh back into that pack. I didn't over discharge. I think the current draw was just to much and the pack got too hot. I would suspect the motor but for the fact that switching to the Align ESC with everything else being the same has eliminated the problems.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlo_the_wonder_frog
I have run that same combination, never had any overheating problems. CC35 Tp 2100 pro-lites 13 tooth pinions running low governor mode at 85 on the throttle curve for a headspeed of 3000. Nothing ever got too hot. It almost sounds to me like you might have gotten a bum ESC. Castle creations will warrant any of their products and have excellent customer service. As a side note, what gyro and servos are you running? perhaps the BEC is what is getting hot and not the actual motor control? All digital servos added to some binding or tight ball links could overheat that puppy.
65MG's for cyclic and 401/9650 on the tail.

Quote:
What headspeed are you running?
3100

Quote:
Are you using a heat sink on the motor?
I have one heatsink on the motor.

Quote:
I set the cutoff voltage down to 6 volts so that it won't hit it. I use the timer on my Futaba 9C to know when to land, which is at 6:30 minutes. I typically put about 1650 mAh back into the packs.
I typically put about that back into my packs, but I usually only get about 5:30 minutes of flight. :?

I'm going to try and exchange at the LHS tomorrow. Hoping it's just a defective controller.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:46 PM   #19
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You said it melted near the BEC. The CC BEC is linear - not efficient and heats with servo usage. Mine was getting hot just sitting on the ground.

I would recommend you to get a separate switching BEC for $15 - it is nearly 90% efficient so it doesn't heat at all. I got ParkBec rated at 1.5 A.
Now the CC stays cold while sitting.
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Old 04-21-2007, 10:19 AM   #20
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Or you could just get a Jazz ESC, expensive, but its the best out there .
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450 Class Electric Helicopters 450 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.

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